Kwame Building Group just manages construction, they aren’t a builder. They’ll usually partner with one of the big builders to meet DBA goals
I have been thinking about your comments and might agree with your sentiments but for the fact that the city is getting several hundred of millions of dollars in Restore Act funds, has a budget surplus of $ 27 million if not mistaken and will stand to gain several millions more for the city street, bridges plus transit if Dems push through an infrastructure plan.Laife Fulk wrote: ↑Sep 04, 2021IF (and this is a huge if) there's a settlement and the city winds up with even $100M, outside of what the current convention center plans require, that money needs to go to fixing basic infrastructure, public safety, social services, and education. Another mega silver bullet project is not the best way to spend any possible NFL compensation. Dreaming up grand plans for replacing the Dome with the settlement money just feels like another wasted opportunity to actually fix the city's biggest issues.
IF, a big If, a settlement happens I would argue that this is the best time for the city, region and state to address convention center shortcomings, an empty dome, and an embrace even bigger vision of doubling down on the current plan & go for phase II. I wish Bob would have gone even bigger and brought up the fact that the raised section freeway between Wash and Cass Ave should be knocked down and bring even more connectivity to Lacleded and near northsdie...
In other words, the city now has significant resources at its disposable. I think it is more a question of leadership and how to address a culture that has obviously embraced the gun for settling its beefs. But leadership should be able to chew gum and walk at the same time so when you have a chance to replace aging resources whether it be convention space or an outdated concourse model at Lambert with a new modern single linear concourse the city should plow forward. Sorry, but the attitude of good enough is why the has gone backwards over the last several decades in my opinion.
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Moves his HQ to Chicago and doesn’t employee a single person in the city. Forgive me if idgaf what this guy thinks
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I think we should keep the dome. I know we don't have an NFL team, but Rams games only accounted for 6 days out of the year. It's recently hosted American Ninja Warrior and the gymnastics Olympic trials. And hasn't it been the home for high school marching band competitions? Even though it's not used that much, it still is an important venue for a region of of our size.
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Yes - granted, COVID completely shut down all conventions and special events there for a bit, but the Dome actually is able to schedule more events now that they don't have to block out every weekend during football season years in advance. (Yes, NFL teams only play 8 home games plus preseason and then some possible post season, but major conventions like to book years in advance and the NFL only releases schedules for the next year in the Spring). The Dome should be used more now that the Rams are gone. Well, once the convention industry gets fully back up to speed.
^ I don’t disagree, but I think the rub is that in a few years the maintenance payments currently collected for the Dome will disappear. The loss of those funds essentially puts the building in the red, no matter how many conventions they book. Short of a solution for that, the Dome is a money loser.
I appreciate Bob Clark throwing something at the wall, but I think the expansion currently planned will significantly improve the convention center and the general experience in that building. Would I prefer Clark’s plan? Of course. But unless he’s got some folks lined up with $750 million+…his plan ain’t happening.
I appreciate Bob Clark throwing something at the wall, but I think the expansion currently planned will significantly improve the convention center and the general experience in that building. Would I prefer Clark’s plan? Of course. But unless he’s got some folks lined up with $750 million+…his plan ain’t happening.
^ The state has been paying $12 million per year for decades now in debt payments on the dome. Those just ended this year I believe.
The Convention Center isn’t exactly part of the sports scene either.
The Convention Center isn’t exactly part of the sports scene either.
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The State of Missouri pays, what, $5 million per year for the Chiefs stadium, right? And also funds the upgrades to the college facilities in St Joseph to bring it up to the standards required for the Chiefs to use it as its summer training camp. KC contributes 20% to Missouri’s economy vs 40% for St Louis. Shouldn’t the state continue to support the St Louis sports at at least double what it gives KC?sc4mayor wrote:^ The state has been paying $12 million per year for decades now in debt payments on the dome. Those just ended this year I believe.
The Convention Center isn’t exactly part of the sports scene either.
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Another post about Clayco and the CC expansion.
https://www.bizjournals.com/stlouis/new ... enter.html
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https://www.bizjournals.com/stlouis/new ... enter.html
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Even though Clark's plan is highly unlikely to happen, it's good to see a vision like this.
The idea for an entirely new Convention Center is great and creating a modern one to help us compete with our peer cities is a good move. While his plan is $800 Million, I could see it being a long term asset rather than a short term fix, which is much like the current expansion plans call for. Sure, losing the Dome would be a loss to many but it sits empty most of the year and is only really used for select concerts and conferences. A new Convention Center could consolidate the larger conferences into one new contiguous space while concerts could move to Busch Stadium.
This idea also seems like a way to get people talking about the Convention Center more than they otherwise would. Creating something to "think big" is an interesting strategy, especially since St. Louis isn't a city known for taking risks. Deep inside, Bob Clark probably knows that his proposal is a long shot, but he knows that it will get the conversation rolling on what the Convention Center and surrounding neighborhood should be. It's a discussion that needs to be had, especially since once the current expansion is completed, we likely wont have the opportunity to replace the Convention Center again for another several decades.
The idea for an entirely new Convention Center is great and creating a modern one to help us compete with our peer cities is a good move. While his plan is $800 Million, I could see it being a long term asset rather than a short term fix, which is much like the current expansion plans call for. Sure, losing the Dome would be a loss to many but it sits empty most of the year and is only really used for select concerts and conferences. A new Convention Center could consolidate the larger conferences into one new contiguous space while concerts could move to Busch Stadium.
This idea also seems like a way to get people talking about the Convention Center more than they otherwise would. Creating something to "think big" is an interesting strategy, especially since St. Louis isn't a city known for taking risks. Deep inside, Bob Clark probably knows that his proposal is a long shot, but he knows that it will get the conversation rolling on what the Convention Center and surrounding neighborhood should be. It's a discussion that needs to be had, especially since once the current expansion is completed, we likely wont have the opportunity to replace the Convention Center again for another several decades.
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Can you expand on the "Dome sits empty most of the year" point here? The CVC was starting to see more interest from convention groups and concerts once the Rams left. They were expecting to see even more use up until COVID derailed the entire industry. And no chance Busch Stadium would become the home to concerts that would otherwise have gone to the Dome. Not only would winter concerts be impossible to schedule, but with the Cardinals playing at home 81+ games a year, that becomes a scheduling nightmare. Most concerts would either go to Enterprise or would skip STL for not having 50k seats.chriss752 wrote: ↑Sep 07, 2021Sure, losing the Dome would be a loss to many but it sits empty most of the year and is only really used for select concerts and conferences. A new Convention Center could consolidate the larger conferences into one new contiguous space while concerts could move to Busch Stadium.
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Interesting... I'd like to edit my prior opinion of Bob Clark just fishing with this proposal. If this could be done as a Phase 2, in relative conjunction with the existing plans, then maybe this really is worth considering. Also, I heard Bob talk on KMOX's show "Nothing Impossible" on Sunday, and he made a very good case for it (note: interview not on their website just yet, otherwise I'd link it). The fact that he's willing to donate the "Bottle District" land to the City for this project speaks pretty loudly to his intentions here.dbInSouthCity wrote: ↑Sep 03, 2021Spoke to some people involved, Clark’s plan is $1b and it can still be done in phase 2.
Now, I agree with Laife Fulk's prior post, that there are certain needs the City has that are currently more deserving of investments than an $800MM convention center expansion and retrofit. STL is a poor City, and there's a lot of work to be done already. Should STL be recipient of significant monies that would put City budgets firmly in the black, then there are other things that can and should be done first to build up our City before this one project.
Meanwhile, there is a lot to be said for having a civic asset like this. Having a large, modern convention center can do an incredible amount for Downtown. STL needs to more actively compete for convention and tourism business. Something like this would be a huge step towards that.
IMHO, I'd like to see "Phase 1" be ready to move forward at a moment's notice. They've got to figure out this NoCo civic project, and soon. I'd also like some elements of the Bob Clark proposal studied/prepped, i.e. building north of Cole Street while keeping it accessible. I already want to see some monies go towards retrofitting the Dome into better convention space, whether that means tear-down or not (it's never going to be an NFL stadium again, but - and I can't say this loudly enough - KA KAW!). I'm also interested in Urbanitas' prior posts referencing the on-site garage at Seventh Street, with the parking lot across from it, as being prime development spots that should be greatly considered with regards to the convention center's impending expansion. Concurrently, there are a hell of a lot of moving parts here, evident in all the wholly-speculated building opportunities in the renderings. If private sector support can manifest around this, if they can get some commitments for capital and private investments around this new proposal, then we'll have to see what's really possible here. I'd think that we should wait until the STL-NFL lawsuit concludes before giving this proposal an indefinite "No", but I wouldn't commit to this without enough preexisting financial support.
Maybe if we don't frame this as a "silver bullet" but just as a "think big" investment in ourselves, then maybe something big like this can happen. In Phase 2.
This is a bit out of left field and has nothing to do with the Bob Clark proposal, but I've thought it would be nice if the convention center authority could purchase the Orpheum Theatre as an out building. While not ideal in that I'd love the theater to be a stand alone business, it has sat empty for years and I think bringing it under the convention center umbrella might give it more use than as an independent venue. As for the benefit to the convention center, it would give them a more formal auditorium venue to offer their patrons and with the theater being essentially half a block away from the main complex they could share a lot of staffing maintenance logistics.
The orpheum needs to be rehab and reopen!! Its architecture is just priceless._nomad_ wrote:This is a bit out of left field and has nothing to do with the Bob Clark proposal, but I've thought it would be nice if the convention center authority could purchase the Orpheum Theatre as an out building. While not ideal in that I'd love the theater to be a stand alone business, it has sat empty for years and I think bringing it under the convention center umbrella might give it more use than as an independent venue. As for the benefit to the convention center, it would give them a more formal auditorium venue to offer their patrons and with the theater being essentially half a block away from the main complex they could share a lot of staffing maintenance logistics.
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It's just an assumption based on my own observations and there's probably data out there to back it up. Before Covid, the Dome was vastly underutilized despite sitting there and waiting to welcome events. There were events that would take place here and there, but of the 365 days in a year, it was probably used no more than 30.Laife Fulk wrote: ↑Sep 07, 2021Can you expand on the "Dome sits empty most of the year" point here? The CVC was starting to see more interest from convention groups and concerts once the Rams left. They were expecting to see even more use up until COVID derailed the entire industry. And no chance Busch Stadium would become the home to concerts that would otherwise have gone to the Dome. Not only would winter concerts be impossible to schedule, but with the Cardinals playing at home 81+ games a year, that becomes a scheduling nightmare. Most concerts would either go to Enterprise or would skip STL for not having 50k seats.chriss752 wrote: ↑Sep 07, 2021Sure, losing the Dome would be a loss to many but it sits empty most of the year and is only really used for select concerts and conferences. A new Convention Center could consolidate the larger conferences into one new contiguous space while concerts could move to Busch Stadium.
The Busch Stadium idea is just a concept, but if Busch could host 3-4 "big" concerts a year, like I know they can with some careful planning, then it's entirely possible to utilize it as a venue for concerts. As for winter concerts, it's hard to say how those would be planned beyond utilizing Enterprise Center. There aren't many concerts that use the Dome anyway (most recent I can remember is Garth Brooks in March 2019). The next seems to be Rolling Stone's at the end of the month, but I guess we'll see. We need to do something about the Dome if it stays. It needs to be utilized much more than it currently is.
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Dome has been used for about 200 days a year on average since the Rams left. That is about 20-30 events. You have to remember that one event may take 5 days to set up and 5 days to break down
Dome has not really had that many concerts...
2019: Garth Brooks
2018: Taylor Swift
2017: U2, Guns 'n Roses (two separate concerts, obviously)
2016: Beyonce
2014: One Direction
The last concert before 2014 appears to have been all the way back in 2003. Assuming the Rolling Stones show still happens, it will actually be their second concert ever at the Dome - the first time they played there was all the way back in 1997 (it was the first concert ever held at the Dome).
Comparatively, Busch Stadium held seven concerts in a three year span from 2016-2018 (Paul McCartney, Metallica, Billy Joel, Kenny Chesney, Journey/Def Leppard, Luke Bryan, Ed Sheeran). Prior to that, they held three concerts between 2008-2011 (Dave Matthews Band, Eagles, U2).
Enterprise Center appears to the biggest venue in St. Louis to draw multiple concerts per year every year.
2019: Garth Brooks
2018: Taylor Swift
2017: U2, Guns 'n Roses (two separate concerts, obviously)
2016: Beyonce
2014: One Direction
The last concert before 2014 appears to have been all the way back in 2003. Assuming the Rolling Stones show still happens, it will actually be their second concert ever at the Dome - the first time they played there was all the way back in 1997 (it was the first concert ever held at the Dome).
Comparatively, Busch Stadium held seven concerts in a three year span from 2016-2018 (Paul McCartney, Metallica, Billy Joel, Kenny Chesney, Journey/Def Leppard, Luke Bryan, Ed Sheeran). Prior to that, they held three concerts between 2008-2011 (Dave Matthews Band, Eagles, U2).
Enterprise Center appears to the biggest venue in St. Louis to draw multiple concerts per year every year.
Costs of maintaining the dome will become more expensive the older it gets. Lets demolish it now that we have the opportunity if not will have a vote to demolish it and will have to pay a new tax to cover the costs. Lets expand the CC and gymnasts can use the largest venue in the CC. Maintaining a Dome for 3 concerts every 4 years makes no sense.
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2017 U2 was cancelled.DTGstl314 wrote: ↑Sep 08, 2021Dome has not really had that many concerts...
2019: Garth Brooks
2018: Taylor Swift
2017: U2, Guns 'n Roses (two separate concerts, obviously)
2016: Beyonce
2014: One Direction
The last concert before 2014 appears to have been all the way back in 2003. Assuming the Rolling Stones show still happens, it will actually be their second concert ever at the Dome - the first time they played there was all the way back in 1997 (it was the first concert ever held at the Dome).
Comparatively, Busch Stadium held seven concerts in a three year span from 2016-2018 (Paul McCartney, Metallica, Billy Joel, Kenny Chesney, Journey/Def Leppard, Luke Bryan, Ed Sheeran). Prior to that, they held three concerts between 2008-2011 (Dave Matthews Band, Eagles, U2).
Enterprise Center appears to the biggest venue in St. Louis to draw multiple concerts per year every year.
https://www.usatoday.com/story/life/mus ... 673399001/
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its spelled MONSTER JAM
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Where else could I have a day of fun and blow out my eardrums for only TEN BUCKS
Unfortunately I get dragged to Monster Jam every year as I have kids. But we all wear ear protection the entire time. The first time we went my wife didn't wear ear protection and her ears rang for two weeks.GoHarvOrGoHome wrote: ↑Sep 09, 2021Where else could I have a day of fun and blow out my eardrums for only TEN BUCKS
I get angry when I see kids without ear protection at those shows.