Maybe one day the society goes from a throwaway culture to a mitigation culture. It applies here where CVC expansion will go forward which in my opinion is a good thing but if a mitigation culture was more the norm you could see where the powers to be with this project would look at a street closure or loss of street grid requires an equivalent replacement or mitigate somewhere else with it being partially or fully being funded by the expansion project. You could literally do it next to the convention center by tearing down the raised section of freeway, replacing with blvd and returning street grid to the east or even some smaller projects throughout the city at noted on other threads.
The use of "throwaway culture" with respect to altering the street grid seems like a bit of a reach. The only other option that would actually have a relation to this street would be to drop the street in a tunnel which would be prohibitively expensive and probably act as a nidus for homeless encampment. There was a long term homeless encampment under the roads in Philadelphia that went under the convention center there which was right next to where I lived, and it was a constant nuisance for making visitors to the area feel unsafe.
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^Yep, those are on a new dedicated website for the project. One of my LinkedIn connections shared the link to the website, so I went on there and took a look. I saved those renderings and shared them to my Twitter.
Denver-based Fentress is the architect now. I like the way it looks.
Website: https://acnextgenproject.com
Denver-based Fentress is the architect now. I like the way it looks.
Website: https://acnextgenproject.com
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Well, Cervantes looked very 60s/70s. America's center looks very 90s. Time for a refresh that will look dated in ten years time. 
Honestly though, I like it. This will be a good addition. Should add a lot of functionality to the place.
Honestly though, I like it. This will be a good addition. Should add a lot of functionality to the place.
Thanks for the weblink. According to the bidding section the primary convention space should start construction in the 4th Quarter. The ballroom and outdoor plaza look to be starting 1st Quarter 2022. Bids for the C-9 garage demolition were opened 6/8 and sounds like utility work starts in the 3rd Quarter. There is a countdown clock under the Progress tab...about 4-5 weeks out right now...groundbreaking maybe?chriss752 wrote: ↑Jun 28, 2021^Yep, those are on a new dedicated website for the project. One of my LinkedIn connections shared the link to the website, so I went on there and took a look. I saved those renderings and shared them to my Twitter.
Denver-based Fentress is the architect now. I like the way it looks.
Website: https://acnextgenproject.com
Love the new renderings, looks very modern and easily accessible for large crowds.
The oversized S A I N T L O U I S on the street wall is a nice touch that keeps it from just being a huge brick barrier on that street side, so while it's not exactly going to activate any activity on that street it's better than an eyesore.
The oversized S A I N T L O U I S on the street wall is a nice touch that keeps it from just being a huge brick barrier on that street side, so while it's not exactly going to activate any activity on that street it's better than an eyesore.
^ There will be plenty of activity at those loading docks behind the giant SAINT LOUIS sign...so this is much better than those being exposed. I also like the screens that will allow some flora to grow on them.
I do wonder what that material is though...the renderings kind of make it look like Corten steel...I'd be curious if that's it.
I do wonder what that material is though...the renderings kind of make it look like Corten steel...I'd be curious if that's it.
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Downtown's worst parking garage is going away...
STL Biz Journal: City buys parking garage to make way for convention center expansion
So far, all the plans have focused on the Convention Center's westward expansion. With this acquisition, and word that the design phase continues, perhaps we can anticipate that what is now the 7th Street garage will also be redeveloped in line with the rest of the building. Concurrently, the construction of a new parking garage - which was already planned and is necessary for the Convention Center to have - should take care of all their parking needs going forward. Lord willing, it will be designed in a manner that will better incorporate itself to the Convention Center's expansion AND reflect best design considerations for such a garage in an urban setting. Knock wood, perhaps including retail and other new uses. Good times.The St. Louis Municipal Finance Corp. has purchased the parking garage at 701 N. 7th St. for $4.9 million, St. Louis Comptroller Darlene Green announced Friday. Constructed in the 1960s, the parking garage had long been sought by the city's Convention and Visitors Commission for expansion of the America's Center convention complex. The convention center surrounds the parking garage on three sides.
“For quite some time, the garage’s condition has not been one that has provided the quality of experience that we want convention and event attendees to have when they come to St. Louis,” said Kitty Ratcliffe, president of the Convention and Visitors Commission, which does business as Explore St. Louis.
The $210 million project will involve expanding the center westward, adding a larger ballroom, more “usable” exhibit hall space and 26 loading docks — the sort of upgrades Explore St. Louis says competing cities have made in recent years.
Announced in 2018 and the project was originally expected to be completed in two years, though it was best by delays during the Covid-19 pandemic. On Friday, Explore St. Louis said the project is in the design phase, with the tourism agency preparing a construction schedule that anticipates completion by the end of 2023, said Chief Marketing Officer Brian Hall.
Demolition of the garage is expected to happen in the "near term," with additional plans announced later, Municipal Finance Corp. said in a news release.
While the convention center will be losing one source of parking, others are in development. The city last year sought bids from developers for a mixed-use development across from the convention center that would include at least 1,168 parking spaces.
I'd like a little more clarification from the CVC about what their plans are for the garage site. The expansion plans detailed by the BJ have been known and don't currently include the garage site. When it was originally announced the CVC was attempting to acquire the garage, Kitty Ratcliffe said it would most likely be demolished and used as surface parking in the near term.
Hopefully this means they're reworking the expansion to fill that hole. I'm not convinced yet though.
Hopefully this means they're reworking the expansion to fill that hole. I'm not convinced yet though.
That BJ headline and article are all kinds of confused. This garage purchase has nothing to do with the convention center westward expansion. And that RFP for the mixed-use garage development went nowhere and I'm fairly certain that project was declared dead awhile ago.gone corporate wrote: ↑Jul 30, 2021Downtown's worst parking garage is going away...
STL Biz Journal: City buys parking garage to make way for convention center expansion
So far, all the plans have focused on the Convention Center's westward expansion. With this acquisition, and word that the design phase continues, perhaps we can anticipate that what is now the 7th Street garage will also be redeveloped in line with the rest of the building. Concurrently, the construction of a new parking garage - which was already planned and is necessary for the Convention Center to have - should take care of all their parking needs going forward. Lord willing, it will be designed in a manner that will better incorporate itself to the Convention Center's expansion AND reflect best design considerations for such a garage in an urban setting. Knock wood, perhaps including retail and other new uses. Good times.The St. Louis Municipal Finance Corp. has purchased the parking garage at 701 N. 7th St. for $4.9 million, St. Louis Comptroller Darlene Green announced Friday. Constructed in the 1960s, the parking garage had long been sought by the city's Convention and Visitors Commission for expansion of the America's Center convention complex. The convention center surrounds the parking garage on three sides.
“For quite some time, the garage’s condition has not been one that has provided the quality of experience that we want convention and event attendees to have when they come to St. Louis,” said Kitty Ratcliffe, president of the Convention and Visitors Commission, which does business as Explore St. Louis.
The $210 million project will involve expanding the center westward, adding a larger ballroom, more “usable” exhibit hall space and 26 loading docks — the sort of upgrades Explore St. Louis says competing cities have made in recent years.
Announced in 2018 and the project was originally expected to be completed in two years, though it was best by delays during the Covid-19 pandemic. On Friday, Explore St. Louis said the project is in the design phase, with the tourism agency preparing a construction schedule that anticipates completion by the end of 2023, said Chief Marketing Officer Brian Hall.
Demolition of the garage is expected to happen in the "near term," with additional plans announced later, Municipal Finance Corp. said in a news release.
While the convention center will be losing one source of parking, others are in development. The city last year sought bids from developers for a mixed-use development across from the convention center that would include at least 1,168 parking spaces.
Any significant expansion/infill on the site of the 7th Street garage would require additional bond sales, and likely a new source of revenue, unless maybe they partner with a developer. But that would mean a hotel, and it's probably going to be quite awhile before downtown can support a major new hotel development.
^ Agree on your thoughts on how soon downtown could support a new hotel development from ground up.. A hometown player literally has a ready made spot on the Landing a block away from the Convention Center. That hasn't gone anywhere. But the thought tearing down the garage and pursuing a deal with outside operator/capital for more ground level convention space/ballroom space plus lobby on ground floor, maybe some mid level parking and a hotel tower above would be an interesting idea and doable. Essentially an on site airport hotel deal. In this case, an on site convention hotel with future parking & room revenues financing the project or backing additional bonds. Don't see why not and must be on someone's mind at the CVC as a long term plan for east side. It would fit nice with improving connectivity between convention space and dome as well.
Part of wishful thinking on my part, maybe part of a Rams lawsuit settlement to put funds towards improving the east side/connectivity between Convention space and dome itself. A thought if somehow Stan K/NFL come out of nowhere to sports commission with a desire to settle lawsuit out of the court.
Part of wishful thinking on my part, maybe part of a Rams lawsuit settlement to put funds towards improving the east side/connectivity between Convention space and dome itself. A thought if somehow Stan K/NFL come out of nowhere to sports commission with a desire to settle lawsuit out of the court.
Also, remember that the city already owns that whole block across the street, between 6th and 7th, Lucas and Convention Plaza. Now that they own the garage parcel, the city could close 7th and Convention Plaza, possibly even 6th and Lucas, and expand eastward. There's probably enough room there for a couple of new exhibit halls, or one large exhibit hall and a large hotel. Or instead of a new hotel, maybe an expansion of the Embassy Suites and/or Drury, with direct convention center access...dredger wrote: ↑Jul 30, 2021^ Agree on your thoughts on how soon downtown could support a new hotel development from ground up.. A hometown player literally has a ready made spot on the Landing a block away from the Convention Center. That hasn't gone anywhere. But the thought tearing down the garage and pursuing a deal with outside operator/capital for more ground level convention space/ballroom space plus lobby on ground floor, maybe some mid level parking and a hotel tower above would be an interesting idea and doable. Essentially an on site airport hotel deal. In this case, an on site convention hotel with future parking & room revenues financing the project or backing additional bonds. Don't see why not and must be on someone's mind at the CVC as a long term plan for east side. It would fit nice with improving connectivity between convention space and dome as well.
Part of wishful thinking on my part, maybe part of a Rams lawsuit settlement to put funds towards improving the east side/connectivity between Convention space and dome itself. A thought if somehow Stan K/NFL come out of nowhere to sports commission with a desire to settle lawsuit out of the court.
Many possibilities:
KSDK - St. Louis County holding up funds for convention center expansion over rec center project
https://www.ksdk.com/article/news/local ... 14b843e75eSt. Louis County's legislative leader says she won't move forward with a bill issuing bonds for the downtown convention center expansion until getting clarity on a north county development that was to be part of that deal.
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I'm all ears.This time, a prominent developer, Bob Clark of design-build firm Clayco, has sent his own plan to civic and business leaders, bashing the current expansion plan as “a chopped-up addition to the already ill-conceived convention center.”
“Just because you only get a certain amount of money doesn’t mean you should back into a bad plan,” Clark said Thursday.
Clark’s plan looks to demolish the entire complex, including the Dome at America’s Center, where the St. Louis Rams used to play. It envisions a new center built parallel to North Broadway that would stretch for three blocks, from Convention Plaza on the south to Carr Street on the north end. Clark argues the plan would provide better access to residents north of downtown and a better facility for visitors.
https://www.stltoday.com/business/local/11th-hour-pitch-shakes-st-louis-convention-center-expansion-plans/article_f906e466-b80c-576e-b4fd-0591b36f796b.html#tracking-source=home-top-story-1
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Ain’t gonna happen Bobby, that’s $1,000,000,000 at least and unless he wants to spend $800,000,000 of his own money it’s a pipe dream
I was going to say the same thing… lol… Sounds great of an idea but he’ll have to put about $1B plus use the bonds!! He will never use his own money for that and even though I want Downtown to prosper quick no bank will approved $1B right now. Unless your Dewitt III or the Taylor family.dbInSouthCity wrote:Ain’t gonna happen Bobby, that’s $1,000,000,000 at least and unless he wants to spend $800,000,000 of his own money it’s a pipe dream
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Interesting idea from him. I agree that it won’t happen, but at least there’s a vision for something like this.
Indeed! But I hope the truck dealership doesn’t happen! That should be for a prime investor.chriss752 wrote:Interesting idea from him. I agree that it won’t happen, but at least there’s a vision for something like this.
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Before we drop this into the Unbuilt St. Louis thread might as well do what we do best: discuss!
This morning's stream of consciousness:
This morning's stream of consciousness:
- The current CVC and it's expansion is certainly a bit of a cluster that really hurts connectivity downtown. The expansion even more so.
- I like the that Cole still runs through under the new plan
- It's interesting that the rendering shows them preserving the existing CVC facade on Wash Ave instead of just reconnecting 8th st
- I'm wondering if they are thinking of this as a possible use for the Rams lawsuit payoff
- If the Dome gets torn down where will the Battlehawks play? Probably the MLS Stadium but it really felt for a moment that they could fill the Dome on a regular basis before COVID ruined everything
- The Mississippi gondola is fun, albeit stupid, idea
- Looks like MLK is becoming a... greenway?
- Also if we are just moving the CVC, what are some other locations that would work just as well? IMO there are some interesting opportunities in the area just east of Union Station. Relocate the DEA and TSR and build it over the metrolink tracks while we are wildly pipe dreaming. Granted that would piss off a lot of downtown hotels (while making some downtown west hotels very happy)
I like the Gondola!!GoHarvOrGoHome wrote:Before we drop this into the Unbuilt St. Louis thread might as well do what we do best: discuss!
This morning's stream of consciousness:Here's the rendering for those who don't want do deal with the horrible stltoday website.
- The current CVC and it's expansion is certainly a bit of a cluster that really hurts connectivity downtown. The expansion even more so.
- I like the that Cole still runs through under the new plan
- It's interesting that the rendering shows them preserving the existing CVC facade on Wash Ave instead of just reconnecting 8th st
- I'm wondering if they are thinking of this as a possible use for the Rams lawsuit payoff
- If the Dome gets torn down where will the Battlehawks play? Probably the MLS Stadium but it really felt for a moment that they could fill the Dome on a regular basis before COVID ruined everything
- The Mississippi gondola is fun, albeit stupid, idea
- Looks like MLK is becoming a... greenway?
- Also if we are just moving the CVC, what are some other locations that would work just as well? IMO there are some interesting opportunities in the area just east of Union Station. Relocate the DEA and TSR and build it over the metrolink tracks while we are wildly pipe dreaming. Granted that would piss off a lot of downtown hotels (while making some downtown west hotels very happy)
…. I know we’re just discussing this idea but geez! I would hope for this to happen and put a hold to the expansion. Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
This is obviously a great building design and I always approve of grand thinking.
BUT I assume if it was presented 2 years ago and no one took him up on the free land… there’s probably a pretty good reason (probably $900 million reason).
BUT I assume if it was presented 2 years ago and no one took him up on the free land… there’s probably a pretty good reason (probably $900 million reason).
What do the colors of the surrounding infill indicate (red, purple, etc.)? While the new convention center building looks nice, I think the infill shown would be the bigger benefit to the city. Is there any reason to believe this plan would instigate that kind of building boom over the current expansion plan?
^ Seems like they just leveraged leftovers from the Amazon HQ2 renderings (East STL Development, Gondola, etc.), unless the "Big Ideas for St. Louis" header has more to it than just CVC replacement.
GoHarvorgohome, thanks for posting the rendering Two cent thoughts.
The first one, Bob must feel like he knows something or he has a feeling that Rams/NFL must be willing hand over a big chunk of money w strings attached. Knocking dome down and replacing with new convention centers is a good way of NFL putting St. Louis behind them once and for all as well remove a reasonable stadium for competing pro network. He knows as well as anyone that the region won't pony up that kinda of money for downtown St. Louis. As a few noted already, great discussion item for the thread is about it.
However, if NFL/Rams cough up some money with strings attached I would say a pretty solid plan and why not go all in & start over. But the one big whiff in the plan. Why is the raised section of Freeway still standing!!! Knock it down at the same time and add even more connectivity. The other detail i like in the plan. You could extend the 7th street corridor improvements.
The rendering shows some faith in promise for the NOW District. Who knows, maybe Bob Clark had a few side conversations and likes with Square & few other companies. His Centene development partnership came to halt in Clayton but maybe he sees some future growth opportunity downtown. Otherwise, why come out with this plan.
The first one, Bob must feel like he knows something or he has a feeling that Rams/NFL must be willing hand over a big chunk of money w strings attached. Knocking dome down and replacing with new convention centers is a good way of NFL putting St. Louis behind them once and for all as well remove a reasonable stadium for competing pro network. He knows as well as anyone that the region won't pony up that kinda of money for downtown St. Louis. As a few noted already, great discussion item for the thread is about it.
However, if NFL/Rams cough up some money with strings attached I would say a pretty solid plan and why not go all in & start over. But the one big whiff in the plan. Why is the raised section of Freeway still standing!!! Knock it down at the same time and add even more connectivity. The other detail i like in the plan. You could extend the 7th street corridor improvements.
The rendering shows some faith in promise for the NOW District. Who knows, maybe Bob Clark had a few side conversations and likes with Square & few other companies. His Centene development partnership came to halt in Clayton but maybe he sees some future growth opportunity downtown. Otherwise, why come out with this plan.