urbanSTL

PeterXCV wrote:

StlAlex wrote: ↑

11:48 PM - Apr 19

PeterXCV wrote:Metro removed the busses in 2009 because of funding, yes, but they didn't bring them back after the county passed a sales tax to fund metro in 2010. Metro didn't want to run busses downtown, favoring all the routes to terminate at civic center, which they doubled the size of a few years ago.

A lot of Metro's bad decisions are their own, not just a lack of funding. That'd help, obviously, but their transit planning's not good.

Anyway, I appreciate the Cleveland reportback.

They favored that because it saved money.

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Bro omg, it cost a lot of money to redo Civic Center the way they did and also they explicitly said moving south city buses out of Downtown would improve on time performance.

Capital costs can't be compared to operating costs and it used over $8 million in federal funds.

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dbInSouthCity wrote: ↑

Jan 03, 2024

3rd fastest growing economy in the Midwest since 2019

What is fueling the growth in GDP in Indy? Fed-Ex expansion? I know they have the capital city advantage & it is really the only big city in the state, but just curious if I'm overlooking something. 

^I guess we need to build a canal, get an NFL team with a world class venue, then host the Final 4 & get our major corporations to locate employees Downtown. 

We have a lot of work to do! 

Eli Lilly too. Salesforce quickly filled up the space vacated by Chase Bank in their tallest building back in 2018 or 2019.

A lot of good comes from the entire region being bought in on the core.

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TheWayoftheArch_V2.0 wrote:ALSO - While I was there Indy (<48hrs) had two murders downtown adjacent and a shooting at monument circle. So whoever says they are light years ahead of us…

Shootings are much more common in downtown Indy than downtown STL, but they don't carry the same debilitating blow to its reputation.

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Shootings are much more common in downtown Indy than downtown STL
ok
data?

BarryGlick wrote:Shootings are much more common in downtown Indy than downtown STL
ok
data?

Yes. There was a massive shooting literally right outside the PNC office, Steak and Shake, Dick's Last Resort, and Hyatt Regency back in 2024, basically no long term impacts. Peabody was hit by gunfire one night and they leave. That's the difference I'm referring to.

https://www.wfyi.org/wfyi-news/2024-03- ... s-saturday

https://fox59.com/news/3-injured-in-dow ... -shooting/

This one happened right outside of a T-Mobile store and a block away from a Burlington, Weber Gill, Panera. All are still open and in business.

Mass shootings happen faily often in downtown Indy but they just don't carry the same consequences as if they happened in St. Louis.

Edit: Can't really get good data because IMPD has much less transparent crime stats that are much harder to access than STL's.

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One thing I will say, if when considering Indy, is that they have never been a major urban center compared to the other largest cities in the country like St. Louis was.  Sure it's been one of if not the largest in the state, with strong economic competition from Gary in its past.  But not only is it the Capitol, it's the singular, largest city/region in the state, a state/city that has lost residents to other more urban, big-time cities around the country.  It has a chip-on-its-shoulder and wants to level-up.  It's always been more of a cow-town for a hoosier/big ag state.

I'd love for us as a community to do what we can to encourage and incentivize our major public companies to locate their HQ's and offices in the city, downtown preferably.  As a big fan of a reinvisioned Chouteau's Lake, I'd also love to see Ameren, and Purina (to an extent) to rebuild their campuses to feed off of this asset.  Could be our equivalent of Indy's Downtown Canal, but I think it would have a much larger impact and help to connect Downtown with the neighborhoods to the South.  The fact that Mayor Slay nixed that plan because of fears he had that it would compete with Ballpark Village is infuriating.  And Rawlings moving to Westport is laughable, we should have done any and everything to have them next to Busch.  I don't know what is wrong with their leadership so short-sighted!

Chateau Lake would greatly enhance Ballpark Village and the development planned for the Millenium site. Let’s do it and get all major local companies to build HQs downtown like Boston did with Seaport. Then outside companies will join them as GE did moving its HQ there from out of state.


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I feel like this would cost far more than $300 million. And there are absolutely no visionaries in office right now.

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A must listen/read for the folks on this forum.

St. Louis Demographics and the Future of the Region with Ness Sandoval

https://showmeinstitute.org/article/eco ... -sandoval/

The specifics on birth figures is interesting, as is the comps in city budgets in places like Pittsburgh to the city of STL. 

then, this....I mean, I get it, but, yikes...

"I’m just trying to get people to move from the mindset that this is 2010 St. Louis. You don’t have 36,000 births anymore. You have 27,000 and it’s declining, one of the fastest declines in the country. Because of it, we’re aging very fast, and so we have to shift. The region has to make a choice that we start to organize our economy around senior citizens. There’s lots of money to be made from senior citizens, but we will never be viewed as Nashville or Austin as a place for young people."

Nothing from Show Me is worth wasting time on. I'm sure it could be summarized as the inevitable outcome of a region where everyone is playing to get their own at the detriment of everyone else.

I'm sure the only reason they're even worried is because demographic numbers are looking bleak for places like St. Charles and Chesterfield. Where were they the last 70 years as the city was systematically destroyed?

Should be worth noting, their primary concern is the suburbs. STL City's median age is several years younger than the county, St. Charles, JeffCo, etc. STL city still has more people less than 10 years old than greater than 60, the only county in the region remaining.

55% of the city's population is under 40, vs 49% for the county, 50% for St. Charles, 48% for JeffCo, etc. Reality is that the city can and does attract young people from all over. The suburbs do not. They rely on families, something that is becoming less and less common as the years go on.

It's no wonder Show Me is worried about the future of the hellscape suburbs.

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The US as a whole is going though a demographic crisis but it's very obvious in the St. Louis area. Unfortunately, I don't have confidence that regional leadership will do what needs to be done to reverse this trend. I think surrounding counties will continue to point the finger at the city of St. Louis, while the region collectively declines. 

StlAlex wrote: ↑

6:43 PM - Apr 28

Nothing from Show Me is worth wasting time on. I'm sure it could be summarized as the inevitable outcome of a region where everyone is playing to get their own at the detriment of everyone else.

I'm sure the only reason they're even worried is because demographic numbers are looking bleak for places like St. Charles and Chesterfield. Where were they the last 70 years as the city was systematically destroyed?

Should be worth noting, their primary concern is the suburbs. STL City's median age is several years younger than the county, St. Charles, JeffCo, etc. STL city still has more people less than 10 years old than greater than 60, the only county in the region remaining.

55% of the city's population is under 40, vs 49% for the county, 50% for St. Charles, 48% for JeffCo, etc. Reality is that the city can and does attract young people from all over. The suburbs do not. They rely on families, something that is becoming less and less common as the years go on.

It's no wonder Show Me is worried about the future of the hellscape suburbs.

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Some of that many be true but Ness Sandoval is a SLU professor not from the SMI.  I think he makes very salient points around topics I haven't read in other places.  As such, I recommend a read/listen.

soulardx wrote:

StlAlex wrote: ↑

6:43 PM - Apr 28

Nothing from Show Me is worth wasting time on. I'm sure it could be summarized as the inevitable outcome of a region where everyone is playing to get their own at the detriment of everyone else.

I'm sure the only reason they're even worried is because demographic numbers are looking bleak for places like St. Charles and Chesterfield. Where were they the last 70 years as the city was systematically destroyed?

Should be worth noting, their primary concern is the suburbs. STL City's median age is several years younger than the county, St. Charles, JeffCo, etc. STL city still has more people less than 10 years old than greater than 60, the only county in the region remaining.

55% of the city's population is under 40, vs 49% for the county, 50% for St. Charles, 48% for JeffCo, etc. Reality is that the city can and does attract young people from all over. The suburbs do not. They rely on families, something that is becoming less and less common as the years go on.

It's no wonder Show Me is worried about the future of the hellscape suburbs.

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Some of that many be true but Ness Sandoval is a SLU professor not from the SMI.  I think he makes very salient points around topics I haven't read in other places.  As such, I recommend a read/listen.

He makes good points, but he has never once made any case for what needs to be done about it or underlying causes that make STL worse than our peers. Ofcourse he's not being asked that by the BJ or Show Me because they wouldn't like the answer.

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StlAlex wrote: ↑

7:16 PM - Apr 28

soulardx wrote:

StlAlex wrote: ↑

6:43 PM - Apr 28

Nothing from Show Me is worth wasting time on. I'm sure it could be summarized as the inevitable outcome of a region where everyone is playing to get their own at the detriment of everyone else.

I'm sure the only reason they're even worried is because demographic numbers are looking bleak for places like St. Charles and Chesterfield. Where were they the last 70 years as the city was systematically destroyed?

Should be worth noting, their primary concern is the suburbs. STL City's median age is several years younger than the county, St. Charles, JeffCo, etc. STL city still has more people less than 10 years old than greater than 60, the only county in the region remaining.

55% of the city's population is under 40, vs 49% for the county, 50% for St. Charles, 48% for JeffCo, etc. Reality is that the city can and does attract young people from all over. The suburbs do not. They rely on families, something that is becoming less and less common as the years go on.

It's no wonder Show Me is worried about the future of the hellscape suburbs.

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Some of that many be true but Ness Sandoval is a SLU professor not from the SMI.  I think he makes very salient points around topics I haven't read in other places.  As such, I recommend a read/listen.

He makes good points, but he has never once made any case for what needs to be done about it or underlying causes that make STL worse than our peers. Ofcourse he's not being asked that by the BJ or Show Me because they wouldn't like the answer.

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I'm not being argumentative but - for recos on what to be done - he does speak to building more housing in the inner suburbs (heck all suburbs) and some sort of school choice credit.  I'm with him on housing but unsure on the school thing. Be that as it may, I would love to hear Sandoval speak to what other cities have done right and do a *whole* segment on that - the potential solutions.

dweebe wrote: ↑

7:11 PM - Apr 28

dblarsen314 wrote: ↑

7:28 PM - Apr 22

One thing I will say, if when considering Indy, is that they have never been a major urban center compared to the other largest cities in the country like St. Louis was.  Sure it's been one of if not the largest in the state, with strong economic competition from Gary in its past.  But not only is it the Capitol, it's the singular, largest city/region in the state, a state/city that has lost residents to other more urban, big-time cities around the country.  It has a chip-on-its-shoulder and wants to level-up.  It's always been more of a cow-town for a hoosier/big ag state.

I'd love for us as a community to do what we can to encourage and incentivize our major public companies to locate their HQ's and offices in the city, downtown preferably.  As a big fan of a reinvisioned Chouteau's Lake, I'd also love to see Ameren, and Purina (to an extent) to rebuild their campuses to feed off of this asset.  Could be our equivalent of Indy's Downtown Canal, but I think it would have a much larger impact and help to connect Downtown with the neighborhoods to the South.  The fact that Mayor Slay nixed that plan because of fears he had that it would compete with Ballpark Village is infuriating.  And Rawlings moving to Westport is laughable, we should have done any and everything to have them next to Busch.  I don't know what is wrong with their leadership so short-sighted!

What would Indianapolis be if it wasn't the state capital? At bare minimum the Colts wouldn't be there and as a result, no domed football stadium.

It would probably also be a sub 2 million metro area.

Who knows...but it doesn't really matter, it is the Capital for the state of Indiana.  And it still is a direct competitor with St. Louis as mid-sized region in the US and, in a lot of ways, is on a better trajectory than us.  My point was that it's trying to level-up, in an "Indy" way, and we should try to do the same and not rely on our glorious past.  I look at the story of Tower Grove Park and Mobot, Forest Park & Lafayette Park early on.  How do we use public space and repurposing on underutilized but prime location acreage to level-up ourselves?

soulardx wrote:

StlAlex wrote: ↑

7:16 PM - Apr 28

soulardx wrote: Some of that many be true but Ness Sandoval is a SLU professor not from the SMI.  I think he makes very salient points around topics I haven't read in other places.  As such, I recommend a read/listen.

He makes good points, but he has never once made any case for what needs to be done about it or underlying causes that make STL worse than our peers. Ofcourse he's not being asked that by the BJ or Show Me because they wouldn't like the answer.

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I'm not being argumentative but - for recos on what to be done - he does speak to building more housing in the inner suburbs (heck all suburbs) and some sort of school choice credit.  I'm with him on housing but unsure on the school thing. Be that as it may, I would love to hear Sandoval speak to what other cities have done right and do a *whole* segment on that - the potential solutions.

Sure but lack of housing is not what's causing these issues. It's far deeper than that.

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I also know he's spoken about the importance of immigration to STL to help remedy this, presented to/with the International Institute, etc. Obviously that's unlikely in the next 3ish years (at best)