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Post12:23 AM - Feb 05#7451

keepstlbrick wrote:
5:20 PM - Feb 04
Not about StL sucking and Louisville being great, I am actually saying the opposite. I am looking at it going, how come we cannot seem to turn over our vacant office into new development lately? Don’t we have more to offer than Louisville? Seeing office buildings in other metros turn over so quickly is just disheartening while we watch some of our most treasured buildings rot
Louisville is weird because in a lot of ways it's just a smaller version of St. Louis. Poorly cutoff riverfront with too many highways bisecting things. Similar feel in it's downtown. Heavy health industry component. We have more to offer BUT we also have more hotels.

I understand your disappointment, but Louisville was able to flip that tower so quickly because there's a need for a 1000 room hotel in that market.

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Post3:33 PM - Feb 05#7452

whitherSTL wrote:
6:33 PM - Feb 04
Spare us your feelings about the military industrial complex, Auggie. That complex partially built our metro area due to MD and General Dynamics; deal with it, it’s real.

It also helped build Seattle, Dallas and the northern Virginia suburbs.

Your non-stop anger and cussing is emblematic of your unhappiness.

Join the real world, not your feelings-based fantasyland.
How many hours of your life have you wasted picking between wall mount crosses at Hobby Lobby? Be honest

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Post11:09 PM - Feb 09#7453

Should have the language from the state bill that will incentivize development in downtown either later today or tomorrow

Post1:43 PM - Feb 10#7454

Here is the bill

https://documents.house.mo.gov/billtrac ... 1H.02I.pdf

Summary

1. What the State Does

Designates Innovation Districts
• Allows a city to apply to the Missouri Department of Economic Development (DED) to designate one Innovation District overlaying its downtown, CBD, or Main Street area.
• DED approval is largely ministerial and must occur within 45 days (automatic approval if no action).

Creates State-Level Incentives in the District
Once designated, the following are available within the district:

A. State Tax Recapture for Public Safety
• 50% of new state sales tax and state income tax withholdings generated above a fixed baseline within the district are redirected into a local Innovation District Public Safety Fund.
• Funds can only be used for:
• Police staffing
• Lighting, cameras, sidewalks, streets, public realm
• Infrastructure and safety improvements
• Existing revenues are not touched—only net new growth above baseline.

B. Income Tax Exclusion for New Residents
• Individuals moving from out of state into the district receive a Missouri income tax exclusion (subject to residency requirements and recapture if they leave).

C. Employer Withholding Incentive (Retention/Reinvestment)
• Businesses maintaining jobs in the district can retain up to 3% of gross wages (state withholding) for up to 10 years.
• Funds must be reinvested in qualified improvements (security, capital upgrades, tenant improvements, infrastructure).

D. Employer Relocation Credit
• Up to $5,000 per relocated employee (earning $70k+) for out-of-state firms moving into the district.

E. Office-to-Residential Tax Credit
• 25% tax credit (30% in Main Street districts) for qualifying office-to-residential conversions.
• $50M annual statewide cap.
• Transferable credits.

F. Master Scorecard
• A single, standardized scoring system governs:
• Property tax abatement
• TIF
• Office-to-residential credits
• Provides predictable, tiered incentive levels.

G. Rural Missouri Development Fund
• Wealthiest cities with districts contribute 10% of new property tax growth in their district to a statewide rural fund.
• Used for housing, infrastructure, workforce, public safety in rural communities.



2. What a City Must Do

Participation is voluntary. If a city elects to create a district, it must:

A. Submit a Master Plan

Includes:
• District boundaries
• Vacant/underutilized properties
• Public safety and infrastructure priorities
• Projected housing/jobs impacts

B. Create a “One-Stop Shop” Permitting Process
• Fast-track review (45-day deadline, deemed approval if no action)
• Single empowered point of contact

C. Adopt Fee Reduction Policies
• Waive or reduce duplicative or extraordinary development fees (without harming core building department funding)

D. Provide Building Code Flexibility for Adaptive Reuse
• Performance-based pathways allowed
• Maintain fire and life safety standards

E. Establish Local Public Safety Fund Account
• Receive and allocate the 50% state incremental revenue
• Funds must supplement, not replace, existing public safety funding

Failure to maintain these requirements can result in suspension of district designation.



3. Benefits to Cities
• Automatic access to state incentives without repeated legislative approvals
• 50% of new state sales + income tax growth stays in the district
• Faster permitting and greater development predictability
• Dedicated funding stream for:
• Police
• Infrastructure
• Streetscape
• Blight remediation
• Attracts new residents and employers from out of state
• Major support for office-to-residential conversions
• Standardized incentive structure reduces political friction



4. Benefits to Businesses
• Up to 3% wage withholding retention for reinvestment
• Relocation credits for new out-of-state firms
• Transferable 25–30% office conversion tax credits
• Faster permitting
• Predictable incentive scoring system
• Ability to combine with other Missouri programs (Quality Jobs, One Start, etc.)



Overall Intent

HB 3231 creates a downtown-focused reinvestment model that:
• Redirects a portion of new state tax growth back into the district that generates it
• Prioritizes public safety and infrastructure
• Encourages housing activation and office conversions
• Standardizes incentive approvals
• Shares a portion of growth with rural Missouri

The program sunsets after 10 years unless reauthorized.

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Post2:16 PM - Feb 10#7455

I could be wrong and I’m sure some here will tell me with curse words woven in, but this bill seems fantastic, comprehensive, and fair!

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Post2:27 PM - Feb 10#7456

There was some stuff about zoning that I was able to convince the backers to remove since the City is already updating its zoning code and even today downtown isn’t all that restrictive. Biggest hurdle will be the City adapting this because there are some thorny subjects, like rolling back prevailing wage on incentivized projects that BOA passed 14-0 last year

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Post2:31 PM - Feb 10#7457

Annoying that STL has to contribute to rural development.

Surprised it doesn’t require the City to abandon earnings tax in district.

Seems fastest any project would be approved is 2028 given state timeline and work needed to get City in compliance with other aspects.

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Post2:59 PM - Feb 10#7458

D. Provide Building Code Flexibility for Adaptive Reuse
• Performance-based pathways allowed
• Maintain fire and life safety standards
So does this mean it would still be a large hurdle for something like Chemical?

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Post3:28 PM - Feb 10#7459

50 million is a low cap.  Isn't Goldman seeking $25 for ATT alone? 

I agree the 10% disbursement to "rural" is vexing.  What qualifies as rural?  Don't all the small towns have main street district creation ability? 

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Post3:45 PM - Feb 10#7460

TheWayoftheArch_V2.0 wrote:
3:28 PM - Feb 10
50 million is a low cap.  Isn't Goldman seeking $25 for ATT alone? 

I agree the 10% disbursement to "rural" is vexing.  What qualifies as rural?  Don't all the small towns have main street district creation ability? 
Missouri has some of the saddest small towns I've seen. The state really hasn't invested in the little main street districts that would actually make them charming. 

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Post3:47 PM - Feb 10#7461

The office to residential is basically designed to fund railway in one year and att in another by designating $25m of it going towards buildings that are 750,000 sq feet or bigger. Other $25m a year for everything else

Post4:19 PM - Feb 10#7462

if you move to downtown from out of state, you will not have to pay Missouri state income tax as long as you live in downtown.

Annual Savings by income level

$50,000 ~$2,100

$75,000 ~$3,300

$100,000 ~$4,500

$150,000 ~$6,900

$200,000 ~$9,300

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Post4:23 PM - Feb 10#7463

So in short:

1. Parts of cities get to keep some of the tax revenue that would have otherwise been wasted by the state.

2. Cities get to pay property taxes to subsidize rurals anyway.

God forbid the cities get something without the rurals getting even more tax revenue to waste.

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Post4:34 PM - Feb 10#7464

dbInSouthCity wrote:
4:19 PM - Feb 10
if you move to downtown from out of state, you will not have to pay Missouri state income tax as long as you live in downtown.

Annual Savings by income level

$50,000 ~$2,100

$75,000 ~$3,300

$100,000 ~$4,500

$150,000 ~$6,900

$200,000 ~$9,300
Obvious target will be metro east residents and businesses.

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Post5:10 PM - Feb 10#7465

If I were a business downtown today with a largely remote workforce would it not benefit me to “leave” then come back when this passes?

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Post5:25 PM - Feb 10#7466

addxb2 wrote:
5:10 PM - Feb 10
If I were a business downtown today with a largely remote workforce would it not benefit me to “leave” then come back when this passes?
I believe even existing businesses can benefit via the 3% back from payroll total. The city tho should look into requiring at least 3 days in the office

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Post5:50 PM - Feb 10#7467

I imagine this would also apply to mom and pop shops? Pretty compelling argument if you're new to the region and want to start a business. Damn near free rent if you live and start your candle business downtown. 

I can't imagine alders agreeing to remove prevailing wage in Downtown but still requiring it in North City. They will either make the district include North City or eliminate that provision. 

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Post12:56 AM - Feb 11#7468

JaneJacobsGhost wrote:
whitherSTL wrote:
6:33 PM - Feb 04
Spare us your feelings about the military industrial complex, Auggie. That complex partially built our metro area due to MD and General Dynamics; deal with it, it’s real.

It also helped build Seattle, Dallas and the northern Virginia suburbs.

Your non-stop anger and cussing is emblematic of your unhappiness.

Join the real world, not your feelings-based fantasyland.
How many hours of your life have you wasted picking between wall mount crosses at Hobby Lobby? Be honest
I’d argue both Seattle and Northern VA are way more and better blue districts than anything near STL. Maybe Dallas isn’t but they navigate being in a red state far better than the leadership of STL either city or county does.


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Post1:00 AM - Feb 11#7469

Also MD almost destroyed Boeing after buying it with Boeing’s money. McDonnell Douglas is hardly anything I’d want to brag about too much, they’re a large part of why we are behind Seattle, Dallas, and Northern VA. Only reason Boeing is turning around is their current CEO is a Seattle guy and the company is probably more likely to move there than here. I’m glad Schmitt helped with the contracts but we should all pray the old MD leadership never controls Boeing ever again.


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Post3:46 PM - Feb 12#7470

goat314 wrote:
3:45 PM - Feb 10
TheWayoftheArch_V2.0 wrote:
3:28 PM - Feb 10
50 million is a low cap.  Isn't Goldman seeking $25 for ATT alone? 

I agree the 10% disbursement to "rural" is vexing.  What qualifies as rural?  Don't all the small towns have main street district creation ability? 
Missouri has some of the saddest small towns I've seen. The state really hasn't invested in the little main street districts that would actually make them charming. 
Where outside of the NE and the west coast do you find charming small towns that aren’t college towns or exurbs of larger metro areas? Certainly not Illinois

A handful of my favorite cute Missouri small towns:
Farmington
St. Gen
Perryville
Jackson
St. James
Washington
Herman
Fulton
Booneville
Maryville
Warsaw
Lebanon
Warrensburg
Chillicothe
Savannah

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Post3:48 PM - Feb 12#7471

JaneJacobsGhost wrote:
3:46 PM - Feb 12
goat314 wrote:
3:45 PM - Feb 10
TheWayoftheArch_V2.0 wrote:
3:28 PM - Feb 10
50 million is a low cap.  Isn't Goldman seeking $25 for ATT alone? 

I agree the 10% disbursement to "rural" is vexing.  What qualifies as rural?  Don't all the small towns have main street district creation ability? 
Missouri has some of the saddest small towns I've seen. The state really hasn't invested in the little main street districts that would actually make them charming. 
Where outside of the NE and the west coast do you find charming small towns that aren’t college towns or exurbs of larger metro areas? Certainly not Illinois
Galena

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Post4:15 PM - Feb 12#7472

And Missouri has Branson. We have kitsch weekend getaway spots too

Post4:21 PM - Feb 12#7473

Not to mention the economic realities of rural Missouri - it’s just not that productive of land. The farm land is average to bad in all but a few places and we don’t have oil, gas, or coal, and only a small amount of iron. All of which is fine by me. Missouri is a beautiful state compared to most of its Midwest counterparts because it hasn’t been steamrolled by industry and monoculture farming

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Post4:46 PM - Feb 12#7474

Illinois small downtowns are many times better than Missouri small downtowns, imo.
Quincy, Macomb, Galesburg, Effingham, Centralia, Carbondale, Pontiac, Lincoln, Jacksonville, Princeton, Ottawa, Kewanee, Morris, Peru, Edwardsville, Belleville. That doesn't even mention the dozens and dozens of small downtowns surrounding the Chicago region.

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Post5:09 PM - Feb 12#7475

addxb2 wrote:
4:46 PM - Feb 12
Illinois small downtowns are many times better than Missouri small downtowns, imo.
Quincy, Macomb, Galesburg, Effingham, Centralia, Carbondale, Pontiac, Lincoln, Jacksonville, Princeton, Ottawa, Kewanee, Morris, Peru, Edwardsville, Belleville. That doesn't even mention the dozens and dozens of small downtowns surrounding the Chicago region.
Edwardsville, Galesburg, Belleville, and Quincy are not small towns. If IL gets to count them the then MO gets Webster, Kirkwood, St. Charles, and Springfield.

Macomb, Carbondale, Effingham, Jacksonville, Lincoln, Centralia are not nice towns.

I’ll grant you the Illinois river towns + Kewanee and Princeton. I like those a lot.

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