urbanSTL

Debaliviere91 wrote:

addxb2 wrote:

Auggie wrote:^^^ One of the single most definitionally reactionary posts I have ever seen on here. Not sure why anyone should take this guy seriously on anything ever again after a post as lost in the sauce as this one.

Classic STL response. Past two weeks I’ve been in Indianapolis, Louisville, Nashville, and St. Louis. St. Louis drivers are by far the most unintelligent and reactionary and the road quality is the worst. I thought nothing would beat Indianapolis.

People do this fairly frequently on this forum and your post doesn’t invalidate everything you say here, but just remember that everyone in each of those cities thinks their city has the worst drivers. It’s all perception.

I tried to be unbiased in assessing each from the same perspective during my travels. When I was in Indy, I thought “STL streets aren’t this bad”. They are and worse. When I was in Nashville, I thought “STL drivers aren’t this inconsiderate.” They are and worse.

I was bragging about how much STL had improved. I drink the booster tea too and was excited for my partner to see all the progress. Instead, felt embarrassed. I think after 10 years I’m allowed to be a little reactionary.

You also used 12 hours of anecdotal data to make a pretty grand proclamation... I'm not saying you're totally wrong, but I think that's a pretty small sample size. I think drivers here are terrible, but I also think that the red light running and expired plates are not nearly as bad as they were 2-3 years ago. I've never been flipped off driving here and I'm out and about all of the time. Maybe it's a low bar but I'm not sure what you expected.

^"Not as bad as 2-3 years ago"

Yes, a very low bar. Seems we can all agree, sh*t sucks everywhere, it (maybe) sucks worse here, but at least it doesn't suck as bad as it did previously. Progress!!

I’m fine with being a little dramatic. Although I won’t back off that the expired plates, aggressive behavior, and road quality are next level in STL. I did nothing that an average tourist wouldn’t do and did not enjoy the in-car experience.

To be rounded… we agreed that the most changed area was “Prospect Yards” and area around Energizer and Union Station. Enjoyed Top Golf more than I anticipated. We noticed all the road construction (TG, Kingshighway, and Market) and look forward to seeing those in the future.

Other concerns, litter downtown was noticeably more than when I worked there between 2016-2019.

addxb2 wrote:I’m fine with being a little dramatic. Although I won’t back off that the expired plates, aggressive behavior, and road quality are next level in STL. I did nothing that an average tourist wouldn’t do and did not enjoy it.

The expired plates is somewhat unique to Missouri due to the flaw in our registration process that will soon be fixed. That doesn’t really affect your trip to St Louis though.

The commentary about our roads and drivers being comparatively worse isn’t based in any reality though. It’s a boomer Facebook comment that people make about every city.

Lucky for us, the average tourists' review isn't removed from reality.

Debaliviere91 wrote: The commentary about our roads and drivers being comparatively worse isn’t based in any reality though. It’s a boomer Facebook comment that people make about every city.

It’s based in my personal experience. I shared my experience having just visited two other car-oriented places.

dweebe wrote:

addxb2 wrote: ↑

Jul 30, 2025

I tried to be unbiased in assessing each from the same perspective during my travels. When I was in Indy, I thought “STL streets aren’t this bad”. They are and worse. When I was in Nashville, I thought “STL drivers aren’t this inconsiderate.” They are and worse.

Nashville drivers are now the worst. St. Louis is bad; but they've gone far beyond us there.

It's like all the worst, angriest, entitled, distracted drivers moved to Nashville during the boom. And then it spread like a virus to the long time residents to make it even worse.

There is something to be said for living in a stable area not being inundated with new folks daily, undersized roads and services always under construction & detours. I’ve always said folks in Europe take long lunches in the park because Europe is done. Let’s be Europe, not Nashville.


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The truth is that it's hard to judge a place after driving there for a day or two. Some days driving here is fine. Other days it's terrible. Every day is a really small sample, so it's subject to all the usual small sample statistical problems. Maybe the weather was really bad and made everyone cranky. Maybe it was unusually nice. Maybe there was a convention in town. Maybe some bit of really bad news made everyone more cross than usual. Maybe a bit of good news made everyone happier. (That'll be the day!) It's so hard to really judge based on anecdotal stuff. Use the data. That's where the truth lies. Look at the numbers of dead per road mile, per passenger mile. Look at pedestrian deaths. Look at a decade's worth of data and how it changes. Sure, we're all going to share the anecdotal stuff. It's what humans do. I understand. But after that, breathe. And look at the numbers. What do they say?

KSDK - 'We're talking about lives here': Kirkwood neighbors demand change on Dougherty Ferry Road

https://www.ksdk.com/article/news/local ... 2fc3d86bc8

https://www.firstalert4.com/2025/09/28/ ... led-crash/

Isn't it great that people's only viable option from Jeffco to the city is I-55? Yay America.

Auggie wrote:https://www.firstalert4.com/2025/09/28/ ... led-crash/

Isn't it great that people's only viable option from Jeffco to the city is I-55? Yay America.

I missed that wreck by 15 minutes. Truckers are insane in that area. The trucker who caused the wreck is now in JeffCo lockup in Hillsboro for vehicular manslaughter. Guy from Louisiana who probably didn’t know about 55 construction and was probably asleep at the wheel. I’m betting he was hauling goods that could have been moved cheaper and faster by train. As someone who lives way south, most people haven’t given a thought about any sort of public transportation in that area. Yet it’s another sign of them crippling lack of ambition this region has.


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Has the Duffman commented? Still pissing himself over the subway?

Fraydog wrote: ↑

Sep 30, 2025

Auggie wrote:https://www.firstalert4.com/2025/09/28/ ... led-crash/

Isn't it great that people's only viable option from Jeffco to the city is I-55? Yay America.

I missed that wreck by 15 minutes. Truckers are insane in that area. The trucker who caused the wreck is now in JeffCo lockup in Hillsboro for vehicular manslaughter. Guy from Louisiana who probably didn’t know about 55 construction and was probably asleep at the wheel. I’m betting he was hauling goods that could have been moved cheaper and faster by train. As someone who lives way south, most people haven’t given a thought about any sort of public transportation in that area. Yet it’s another sign of them crippling lack of ambition this region has.


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A MetroLink line straight up I-55 would get heavily used.