We have laws against dangerous behavior. That’s not what’s being debated. What’s being debated is what a realistic level of enforcement of those laws is. You’re not being honest about the limited nature of our resources.Baltimore Jack wrote:Here's an idea. We can make basic changes to infrastructure AND send the message that violation of the law and endangering public safety has consequences.
But sure keep calling the vast majority of even liberal city residents who want laws against dangerous behavior enforced "reactionary"
See where that gets ya!
The things you're talking about are good things to do because it makes people naturally slow down a BIT. You feel like you're going a marginally faster on a little road. Whoever drove into the building wasn't driving that fast because it felt like they were going slower. You don't drive into a building cause you're going 10 over the limit. We can make and need improvements, although I think the grove is way ahead of many parts of the city, but this is a driver issue.Auggie wrote: ↑May 14, 2025Yes. Clearly. Like obviously clearly.flipz wrote: ↑May 14, 2025Clearly? This isn't some funky intersection that is hard to navigate. Manchester in the grove is one of the best pedestrian roads in STL and Boyle is smaller. If anything the person was clearly driving too fast. Nobody is enforcing speeding or anything else really.Debaliviere91 wrote: ↑May 14, 2025In this instance it’s very clearly road safety design improvements and not police enforcement that is the answer.
The only thing they seem to be able to come up with is speed bumps every 200 ft.
The Grove is one of the best pedestrian areas in the city, yet it doesn't feel like that when you're walking. The asphalt is terrible, there's no daylighting at intersections, none of the crosswalks are raised, the traffic lights are all on wires, there's no use of bollards, there's no speed humps to force cars to slow down, the lanes on Manchester are needlessly wide, the curbs are too short....etc etc etc.
All of these factors result in people driving too fast. And what do you think a cop would do? Try to pull them over? What happens when they flee? Now everyone is at even greater risk.
The clear and obvious solution to car violence is to build our infrastructure in a way that lowers the incentive to speed and recklessly drive. The cities in this country that have very low traffic accidents and deaths didn't get their numbers through police enforcement.
Look, I don't think anyone believes cops shouldn't ticket reckless driving. We all believe that's necessary. But it'll never be enough on its own. So a lot of us are really harping on the idea that better road design can lead to better driving. Unlike cops, the better road is always there. It never takes a break. You don't have to send it to deal with a domestic situation. Hell, it might even help with that, since it might possibly make it easier and safer for the cops to get to the domestic situation. Sure. We need enforcement. But we also need better design.Baltimore Jack wrote: ↑May 14, 2025Here's an idea. We can make basic changes to infrastructure AND send the message that violation of the law and endangering public safety has consequences.
But sure keep calling the vast majority of even liberal city residents who want laws against dangerous behavior enforced "reactionary"
See where that gets ya!
City tried to solve for this by passing a law that a judge over turned after Airbnb owners sued.addxb2 wrote: ↑Jun 18, 2025St. Louis deserves to be at the top of every one of these headlines until the abuse of short term rentals and reckless driving are put to an end. I’m done giving Downtown excuses when it’s the same formula every time.
I’ll be even clearer. I am visiting St. Louis in a month with my partner. We won’t be staying downtown. We won’t be out past 9pm.
I’ve done the “the statistics say…” for over a decade. Done with it. To old for it. It’s meaningless when random visitors are being killed.
(By a cop, no less.) He lived through it, but it was touch and go. We did a T-shirt fundraiser for him in the 90s before that was cool.I think the point is that in this example the police did their job and cited this lady dozens of times. Exactly what you’re asking for. Same results.STLCityMike wrote:It looks like a car on the streets of the city with temp tags the are YEARS old still driving on the streets. It looks like when I see a car parked on the sidewalk and I take a picture and send it over social media they send me somewhere else. It looks like me not driving from the Grove to home and seeing cars running lights all over the place because they don't feel threatened. It looks like seeing vehicles pulled over and beginning the deterrence of bad driving.
I fully understand our police force is understaffed, but I also understand there is more than just police. There are specific departments. Where on the streets are the traffic cops? Are they having to fill in other roles? Are they also understaffed?
Yep. To a tee. This is why intentionally designing our streets to be less car-friendly is literally the only way to get actual cuts in car violence. Lane reductions, raised cross walks, curb extensions, narrow lanes, daylighting, etc. All need to be done at every intersection and street in every American city.Debaliviere91 wrote: ↑Jul 01, 2025I think the point is that in this example the police did their job and cited this lady dozens of times. Exactly what you’re asking for. Same results.STLCityMike wrote:It looks like a car on the streets of the city with temp tags the are YEARS old still driving on the streets. It looks like when I see a car parked on the sidewalk and I take a picture and send it over social media they send me somewhere else. It looks like me not driving from the Grove to home and seeing cars running lights all over the place because they don't feel threatened. It looks like seeing vehicles pulled over and beginning the deterrence of bad driving.
I fully understand our police force is understaffed, but I also understand there is more than just police. There are specific departments. Where on the streets are the traffic cops? Are they having to fill in other roles? Are they also understaffed?
