The business courier posted about a week ago Cincinnati just passed Columbus in employment and GDP.JaneJacobsGhost wrote: ↑Mar 21, 2025Cincinnati’s problem is that Columbus is becoming the dominant economic force in Ohio and will soon blow past Cleveland and Cincy in population, wealth, and importance (if it hasn’t already).
I would not be surprised to hear Castellini is trying to move the Reds to Columbus in the next decade
Uhh....what?cincinnatus wrote: ↑Mar 21, 2025The NBA is struggling and moving in the wrong direction. It won't be long before MLS overtakes the NBA.
NBA Top and Bottom Club values Per Forbes (average increase of ~16% YoY):A group led by Bill Chisholm, managing partner at Symphony Technology Group, has agreed to purchase the Boston Celtics for a valuation of $6.1 billion, sources told ESPN's Shams Charania.
That price would surpass the $6.05 billion price a group led by Josh Harris paid to buy the NFL's Washington Commanders in 2023 as the most paid for a franchise in North American sports history, and it would easily surpass the record number for the control stake of an NBA team, which was set two years ago when Mat Ishbia bought the Phoenix Suns for $4 billion.
| Rank | Team | Value | Change |
| 1 | Golden State Warriors | $8.8 billion | 14% |
| 2 | New York Knicks | $7.5 billion | 14% |
| 3 | Los Angeles Lakers | $7.1 billion | 11% |
| 4 | Boston Celtics | $6.0 billion | 28% |
| 5 | Los Angeles Clippers | $5.5 billion | 18% |
| 6 | Chicago Bulls | $5.0 billion | 9% |
| 25 | Detroit Pistons | $3.4 billion | 11% |
| 26 | Charlotte Hornets | $3.3 billion | 10% |
| 27 | Orlando Magic | $3.2 billion | 8% |
| 28 | Minnesota Timberwolves | $3.1 billion | 24% |
| 29 | New Orleans Pelicans | $3.05 billion | 20% |
| 30 | Memphis Grizzlies | $3.0 billion | 25% |
| Rank | Club | Value | Change |
| 1 | Los Angeles FC | $1.25 billion | 4% |
| 2 | Inter Miami CF | $1.2 billion | 17% |
| 3 | LA Galaxy | $1 billion | 5% |
| 4 | Atlanta United FC | $0.975 billion | 8% |
| 5 | New York City FC | $0.875 billion | 3% |
| 25 | Real Salt Lake | $0.5 billion | 3% |
| 26 | Orlando City SC | $0.475 billion | 0% |
| 27 | Vancouver Whitecaps FC | $0.44 billion | 5% |
| 28 | CF Montréal | $0.435 billion | 1% |
| 29 | Colorado Rapids | $0.415 billion | 4% |
Cincinnati's MSA GDP is $198.9B while Columbus' is $182.1B.cincinnatus wrote: ↑Mar 21, 2025The business courier posted about a week ago Cincinnati just passed Columbus in employment and GDP.JaneJacobsGhost wrote: ↑Mar 21, 2025Cincinnati’s problem is that Columbus is becoming the dominant economic force in Ohio and will soon blow past Cleveland and Cincy in population, wealth, and importance (if it hasn’t already).
I would not be surprised to hear Castellini is trying to move the Reds to Columbus in the next decade
I wasn't referencing now, I'm looking at the following data ...Bart Harley Jarvis wrote: ↑Mar 21, 2025Uhh....what?cincinnatus wrote: ↑Mar 21, 2025The NBA is struggling and moving in the wrong direction. It won't be long before MLS overtakes the NBA.
https://www.espn.com/nba/story/_/id/443 ... 61-billion
NBA Top and Bottom Club values Per Forbes (average increase of ~16% YoY):A group led by Bill Chisholm, managing partner at Symphony Technology Group, has agreed to purchase the Boston Celtics for a valuation of $6.1 billion, sources told ESPN's Shams Charania.
That price would surpass the $6.05 billion price a group led by Josh Harris paid to buy the NFL's Washington Commanders in 2023 as the most paid for a franchise in North American sports history, and it would easily surpass the record number for the control stake of an NBA team, which was set two years ago when Mat Ishbia bought the Phoenix Suns for $4 billion.
Rank Team Value Change 1 Golden State Warriors $8.8 billion 14% 2 New York Knicks $7.5 billion 14% 3 Los Angeles Lakers $7.1 billion 11% 4 Boston Celtics $6.0 billion 28% 5 Los Angeles Clippers $5.5 billion 18% 6 Chicago Bulls $5.0 billion 9% 25 Detroit Pistons $3.4 billion 11% 26 Charlotte Hornets $3.3 billion 10% 27 Orlando Magic $3.2 billion 8% 28 Minnesota Timberwolves $3.1 billion 24% 29 New Orleans Pelicans $3.05 billion 20% 30 Memphis Grizzlies $3.0 billion 25%
MLS Top and Bottom Club values Per Forbes (average increase of ~5% YoY):
Rank Club Value Change 1 Los Angeles FC $1.25 billion 4% 2 Inter Miami CF $1.2 billion 17% 3 LA Galaxy $1 billion 5% 4 Atlanta United FC $0.975 billion 8% 5 New York City FC $0.875 billion 3% 25 Real Salt Lake $0.5 billion 3% 26 Orlando City SC $0.475 billion 0% 27 Vancouver Whitecaps FC $0.44 billion 5% 28 CF Montréal $0.435 billion 1% 29 Colorado Rapids $0.415 billion 4%
While the NBA remains a popular league, recent data indicates a decline in viewership, with ratings down on ESPN platforms and a general trend of fewer people tuning in to live games, raising questions about the league's continued popularity.
Here's a breakdown of potential factors contributing to this trend:
1. Declining Viewership Numbers:2. Potential Reasons for the Decline:
- ESPN Ratings Down:
ESPN's NBA ratings are down 28% year-over-year through November 21st, while TNT's numbers are flat.- Overall Viewership Decline:
NBA viewership is down 5% year-over-year, and some analysts suggest a 48% drop since 2012.- NBA Finals Ratings:
Four of the five lowest-rated NBA Finals in the past 30 years have occurred in the last four seasons.
- Shift to Streaming:
The rise of streaming platforms like League Pass may be diverting viewers away from traditional media networks.- NBA's Focus on Social Justice:
Some argue that the NBA's social justice focus, particularly around Black Lives Matter, has alienated right-leaning viewers.- Too Many Regular Season Games:
Some fans feel the NBA has too many regular-season games and lacks continuity due to frequent player and team changes.- Changes in the Game:
- Over-reliance on three-point shooting: Some fans feel the game has become too reliant on three-point shots, detracting from the physicality and strategic depth of the game.
- Inconsistent officiating: Fans have voiced concerns about inconsistent officiating, particularly regarding calls on superstars and the prevalence of "flopping".
- Load Management: The increasing trend of players sitting out games for rest purposes, even when healthy, has also been criticized.
The NBA has a 50-year advantage over the MLS, and the MLS has already passed the NBA in average attendance. It would be interesting to see the MLS's viewership if they aired matches on Fox Sports or ESPN.MLS Fan Engagement ...
Attendance and Fan Engagement:Factors Contributing to Growth:
- Record Attendance: The 2024 regular season saw a record 11.45 million fans attend MLS matches, a 5% increase from 2023 and a 14% increase from 2022.
- Record Average Attendance: The average attendance per match during the 2024 regular season was 23,234, the highest ever for an MLS regular season.
- Record Number of Large Crowds: Multiple matches saw attendance surpass 70,000, 60,000, and 50,000 fans.
- Record Sellouts: 213 matches were sold out throughout the regular season.
- Record Season Ticket Sales: Season ticket sales league-wide are up 12% compared to the 2023 season.
- High Stadium Capacity: MLS venues were filled at a record 94% capacity.
- Social Media Engagement: Engagement on league and club social channels is at an all-time high, with over 400 million social interactions in 2024, a 230% rise compared to last season.
- Video Views: MLS video content has seen a 3x increase in views, with 1 billion video views in 2024.
- International Stars:
The arrival of players like Lionel Messi, David Beckham, Kaká, Sergio Busquets, and Luis Suárez has drawn attention and created a ripple effect, encouraging younger players to consider the league.- Expansion:
The league has expanded across the country, with new teams and franchises, increasing the number of fans and opportunities for local teams to build fanbases.- Youth Development and International Scouting:
MLS has invested in youth development and international scouting, resulting in a more competitive league with talented players.- Marketing and Fan Experiences:
The league has invested in marketing efforts, including social media campaigns, interactive fan experiences, and partnerships with global brands, creating a vibrant soccer culture.- 2026 World Cup:
The upcoming 2026 World Cup, which the US will co-host, is expected to further boost the popularity of soccer in the country and attract investors.
I agree that the MLS is rapidly growing, but attendance is a really bad way to judge it.cincinnatus wrote: ↑Mar 22, 2025I wasn't referencing now, I'm looking at the following data ...Bart Harley Jarvis wrote: ↑Mar 21, 2025Uhh....what?cincinnatus wrote: ↑Mar 21, 2025The NBA is struggling and moving in the wrong direction. It won't be long before MLS overtakes the NBA.
https://www.espn.com/nba/story/_/id/443 ... 61-billion
NBA Top and Bottom Club values Per Forbes (average increase of ~16% YoY):A group led by Bill Chisholm, managing partner at Symphony Technology Group, has agreed to purchase the Boston Celtics for a valuation of $6.1 billion, sources told ESPN's Shams Charania.
That price would surpass the $6.05 billion price a group led by Josh Harris paid to buy the NFL's Washington Commanders in 2023 as the most paid for a franchise in North American sports history, and it would easily surpass the record number for the control stake of an NBA team, which was set two years ago when Mat Ishbia bought the Phoenix Suns for $4 billion.
Rank Team Value Change 1 Golden State Warriors $8.8 billion 14% 2 New York Knicks $7.5 billion 14% 3 Los Angeles Lakers $7.1 billion 11% 4 Boston Celtics $6.0 billion 28% 5 Los Angeles Clippers $5.5 billion 18% 6 Chicago Bulls $5.0 billion 9% 25 Detroit Pistons $3.4 billion 11% 26 Charlotte Hornets $3.3 billion 10% 27 Orlando Magic $3.2 billion 8% 28 Minnesota Timberwolves $3.1 billion 24% 29 New Orleans Pelicans $3.05 billion 20% 30 Memphis Grizzlies $3.0 billion 25%
MLS Top and Bottom Club values Per Forbes (average increase of ~5% YoY):
Rank Club Value Change 1 Los Angeles FC $1.25 billion 4% 2 Inter Miami CF $1.2 billion 17% 3 LA Galaxy $1 billion 5% 4 Atlanta United FC $0.975 billion 8% 5 New York City FC $0.875 billion 3% 25 Real Salt Lake $0.5 billion 3% 26 Orlando City SC $0.475 billion 0% 27 Vancouver Whitecaps FC $0.44 billion 5% 28 CF Montréal $0.435 billion 1% 29 Colorado Rapids $0.415 billion 4%
Soccer is the most popular sport in the world with over 1B more fans than #2.
MLS started in 1996 - 29 years old
Professional Basketball started 1898. Let's look at the NBA though - 1946 - 79 years old
Average MLS attendance - 23,234
Average NBA attendance - 18,324
Unfortunately, AppleTV has killed MLS viewership. It's ruined fan experience here, locally, significantly.
MLS total teams - 30 (plans to add 2 in 2026)
NBA total teams - 30 (I only found data on possible teams relocating, correct me if I'm wrong)
Most recent NBA team: Charlotte - 2004
Here's a breakdown of recent MLS expansion history:
- 2021: Austin FC joined the league.
- 2022: Charlotte FC joined the league.
- 2023: St. Louis City joined the league.
- 2025: San Diego FC joined the league.
NBA Fan Engagement ...While the NBA remains a popular league, recent data indicates a decline in viewership, with ratings down on ESPN platforms and a general trend of fewer people tuning in to live games, raising questions about the league's continued popularity.
Here's a breakdown of potential factors contributing to this trend:
1. Declining Viewership Numbers:2. Potential Reasons for the Decline:
- ESPN Ratings Down:
ESPN's NBA ratings are down 28% year-over-year through November 21st, while TNT's numbers are flat.- Overall Viewership Decline:
NBA viewership is down 5% year-over-year, and some analysts suggest a 48% drop since 2012.- NBA Finals Ratings:
Four of the five lowest-rated NBA Finals in the past 30 years have occurred in the last four seasons.
- Shift to Streaming:
The rise of streaming platforms like League Pass may be diverting viewers away from traditional media networks.- NBA's Focus on Social Justice:
Some argue that the NBA's social justice focus, particularly around Black Lives Matter, has alienated right-leaning viewers.- Too Many Regular Season Games:
Some fans feel the NBA has too many regular-season games and lacks continuity due to frequent player and team changes.- Changes in the Game:
- Over-reliance on three-point shooting: Some fans feel the game has become too reliant on three-point shots, detracting from the physicality and strategic depth of the game.
- Inconsistent officiating: Fans have voiced concerns about inconsistent officiating, particularly regarding calls on superstars and the prevalence of "flopping".
- Load Management: The increasing trend of players sitting out games for rest purposes, even when healthy, has also been criticized.
The NBA has a 50-year advantage over the MLS, and the MLS has already passed the NBA in average attendance. It would be interesting to see the MLS's viewership if they aired matches on Fox Sports or ESPN.MLS Fan Engagement ...
Attendance and Fan Engagement:Factors Contributing to Growth:
- Record Attendance: The 2024 regular season saw a record 11.45 million fans attend MLS matches, a 5% increase from 2023 and a 14% increase from 2022.
- Record Average Attendance: The average attendance per match during the 2024 regular season was 23,234, the highest ever for an MLS regular season.
- Record Number of Large Crowds: Multiple matches saw attendance surpass 70,000, 60,000, and 50,000 fans.
- Record Sellouts: 213 matches were sold out throughout the regular season.
- Record Season Ticket Sales: Season ticket sales league-wide are up 12% compared to the 2023 season.
- High Stadium Capacity: MLS venues were filled at a record 94% capacity.
- Social Media Engagement: Engagement on league and club social channels is at an all-time high, with over 400 million social interactions in 2024, a 230% rise compared to last season.
- Video Views: MLS video content has seen a 3x increase in views, with 1 billion video views in 2024.
- International Stars:
The arrival of players like Lionel Messi, David Beckham, Kaká, Sergio Busquets, and Luis Suárez has drawn attention and created a ripple effect, encouraging younger players to consider the league.- Expansion:
The league has expanded across the country, with new teams and franchises, increasing the number of fans and opportunities for local teams to build fanbases.- Youth Development and International Scouting:
MLS has invested in youth development and international scouting, resulting in a more competitive league with talented players.- Marketing and Fan Experiences:
The league has invested in marketing efforts, including social media campaigns, interactive fan experiences, and partnerships with global brands, creating a vibrant soccer culture.- 2026 World Cup:
The upcoming 2026 World Cup, which the US will co-host, is expected to further boost the popularity of soccer in the country and attract investors.
With this ^ in mind, I don't think anyone would be surprised if/when the MLS surpasses the NBA, even with a 50-year headstart. It's 90 mins. of fast-paced, no timeouts, no long commercials and players running constantly up and down a field that's 110/114 yards long and 70/74 yards wide (great for younger folk with short attention spans).
I see your point, but you're only honing in on one point.Auggie wrote: ↑Mar 22, 2025I agree that the MLS is rapidly growing, but attendance is a really bad way to judge it.cincinnatus wrote: ↑Mar 22, 2025I wasn't referencing now, I'm looking at the following data ...Bart Harley Jarvis wrote: ↑Mar 21, 2025Uhh....what?
https://www.espn.com/nba/story/_/id/443 ... 61-billion
NBA Top and Bottom Club values Per Forbes (average increase of ~16% YoY):
Rank Team Value Change 1 Golden State Warriors $8.8 billion 14% 2 New York Knicks $7.5 billion 14% 3 Los Angeles Lakers $7.1 billion 11% 4 Boston Celtics $6.0 billion 28% 5 Los Angeles Clippers $5.5 billion 18% 6 Chicago Bulls $5.0 billion 9% 25 Detroit Pistons $3.4 billion 11% 26 Charlotte Hornets $3.3 billion 10% 27 Orlando Magic $3.2 billion 8% 28 Minnesota Timberwolves $3.1 billion 24% 29 New Orleans Pelicans $3.05 billion 20% 30 Memphis Grizzlies $3.0 billion 25%
MLS Top and Bottom Club values Per Forbes (average increase of ~5% YoY):
Rank Club Value Change 1 Los Angeles FC $1.25 billion 4% 2 Inter Miami CF $1.2 billion 17% 3 LA Galaxy $1 billion 5% 4 Atlanta United FC $0.975 billion 8% 5 New York City FC $0.875 billion 3% 25 Real Salt Lake $0.5 billion 3% 26 Orlando City SC $0.475 billion 0% 27 Vancouver Whitecaps FC $0.44 billion 5% 28 CF Montréal $0.435 billion 1% 29 Colorado Rapids $0.415 billion 4%
Soccer is the most popular sport in the world with over 1B more fans than #2.
MLS started in 1996 - 29 years old
Professional Basketball started 1898. Let's look at the NBA though - 1946 - 79 years old
Average MLS attendance - 23,234
Average NBA attendance - 18,324
Unfortunately, AppleTV has killed MLS viewership. It's ruined fan experience here, locally, significantly.
MLS total teams - 30 (plans to add 2 in 2026)
NBA total teams - 30 (I only found data on possible teams relocating, correct me if I'm wrong)
Most recent NBA team: Charlotte - 2004
Here's a breakdown of recent MLS expansion history:
- 2021: Austin FC joined the league.
- 2022: Charlotte FC joined the league.
- 2023: St. Louis City joined the league.
- 2025: San Diego FC joined the league.
NBA Fan Engagement ...While the NBA remains a popular league, recent data indicates a decline in viewership, with ratings down on ESPN platforms and a general trend of fewer people tuning in to live games, raising questions about the league's continued popularity.
Here's a breakdown of potential factors contributing to this trend:
1. Declining Viewership Numbers:2. Potential Reasons for the Decline:
- ESPN Ratings Down:
ESPN's NBA ratings are down 28% year-over-year through November 21st, while TNT's numbers are flat.- Overall Viewership Decline:
NBA viewership is down 5% year-over-year, and some analysts suggest a 48% drop since 2012.- NBA Finals Ratings:
Four of the five lowest-rated NBA Finals in the past 30 years have occurred in the last four seasons.
- Shift to Streaming:
The rise of streaming platforms like League Pass may be diverting viewers away from traditional media networks.- NBA's Focus on Social Justice:
Some argue that the NBA's social justice focus, particularly around Black Lives Matter, has alienated right-leaning viewers.- Too Many Regular Season Games:
Some fans feel the NBA has too many regular-season games and lacks continuity due to frequent player and team changes.- Changes in the Game:
- Over-reliance on three-point shooting: Some fans feel the game has become too reliant on three-point shots, detracting from the physicality and strategic depth of the game.
- Inconsistent officiating: Fans have voiced concerns about inconsistent officiating, particularly regarding calls on superstars and the prevalence of "flopping".
- Load Management: The increasing trend of players sitting out games for rest purposes, even when healthy, has also been criticized.
The NBA has a 50-year advantage over the MLS, and the MLS has already passed the NBA in average attendance. It would be interesting to see the MLS's viewership if they aired matches on Fox Sports or ESPN.MLS Fan Engagement ...
Attendance and Fan Engagement:Factors Contributing to Growth:
- Record Attendance: The 2024 regular season saw a record 11.45 million fans attend MLS matches, a 5% increase from 2023 and a 14% increase from 2022.
- Record Average Attendance: The average attendance per match during the 2024 regular season was 23,234, the highest ever for an MLS regular season.
- Record Number of Large Crowds: Multiple matches saw attendance surpass 70,000, 60,000, and 50,000 fans.
- Record Sellouts: 213 matches were sold out throughout the regular season.
- Record Season Ticket Sales: Season ticket sales league-wide are up 12% compared to the 2023 season.
- High Stadium Capacity: MLS venues were filled at a record 94% capacity.
- Social Media Engagement: Engagement on league and club social channels is at an all-time high, with over 400 million social interactions in 2024, a 230% rise compared to last season.
- Video Views: MLS video content has seen a 3x increase in views, with 1 billion video views in 2024.
- International Stars:
The arrival of players like Lionel Messi, David Beckham, Kaká, Sergio Busquets, and Luis Suárez has drawn attention and created a ripple effect, encouraging younger players to consider the league.- Expansion:
The league has expanded across the country, with new teams and franchises, increasing the number of fans and opportunities for local teams to build fanbases.- Youth Development and International Scouting:
MLS has invested in youth development and international scouting, resulting in a more competitive league with talented players.- Marketing and Fan Experiences:
The league has invested in marketing efforts, including social media campaigns, interactive fan experiences, and partnerships with global brands, creating a vibrant soccer culture.- 2026 World Cup:
The upcoming 2026 World Cup, which the US will co-host, is expected to further boost the popularity of soccer in the country and attract investors.
With this ^ in mind, I don't think anyone would be surprised if/when the MLS surpasses the NBA, even with a 50-year headstart. It's 90 mins. of fast-paced, no timeouts, no long commercials and players running constantly up and down a field that's 110/114 yards long and 70/74 yards wide (great for younger folk with short attention spans).
If NBA arenas were 23,000, they would have a higher attendance.
The only reason why there aren't bigger names is because of MLS's salary cap.jshank83 wrote: ↑Mar 22, 2025Every time there is a World Cup we hear about how it will catapult the league. When it was here last they said it would also. I’ve yet to see this huge bump it is supposed to get. I am a soccer fan and have season tickets, but I’m skeptical it passes the NBA anytime soon. As long as the MLS isn’t a top league in the world it will always be held down. If they can get more big names in their prime than maybe they have more of a chance. I’m not even sure where MLS ranks for soccer league viewership in the USA compared to other leagues.
Fastest growing doesn’t equal a top league. It just means it so low it had a lot of room to grow compared to EPL/NBA, and other leagues. Pickleball is also growing really fast but it isn’t going to pass up any major sports. Like you say NBA has had 50 years to get to this point at some point growth was going to slow, you aren’t going to just keep growing at a X% clip forever. Eventually you hit a bit of a ceiling.cincinnatus wrote: ↑Mar 22, 2025The only reason why there aren't bigger names is because of MLS's salary cap.jshank83 wrote: ↑Mar 22, 2025Every time there is a World Cup we hear about how it will catapult the league. When it was here last they said it would also. I’ve yet to see this huge bump it is supposed to get. I am a soccer fan and have season tickets, but I’m skeptical it passes the NBA anytime soon. As long as the MLS isn’t a top league in the world it will always be held down. If they can get more big names in their prime than maybe they have more of a chance. I’m not even sure where MLS ranks for soccer league viewership in the USA compared to other leagues.
The salary cap numbers change yearly under the Collective Bargaining Agreement (CBA), increasing annually.Jan 8, 2025 (and will continue to increase YoY)
Salary Cap Explanation
World Cup didn't boost soccer popularity? What?? ... the US hasn't hosted the World Cup since 1994. The MLS wasn't even in existence until 1996 and yes the World Cup will certainly boost soccer fever as the MLS is Co-hosting the FIFA World Cup.
Isn't a top league?? The MLS/USL is the fastest-growing league in the world! 2024 was a record-breaking year.
Based on the stats and data above what would make you think that the MLS "won't pass the NBA anytime soon?" At the rate the 2 leagues are growing/declining, this is no longer a "Could the MLS pass the NBA soon?" ... it's already happening. Again, there's a 50-year jump the NBA has.
The team owners know it; they've discussed this publicly, and Adam Silver knows there's a problem. Why would fans act like there's not one?
https://www.slowboring.com/p/the-nba-ha ... ce-problem
https://sports.yahoo.com/why-nba-rating ... 00434.html
https://www.nytimes.com/athletic/601516 ... le-change/
https://www.si.com/onsi/ball-around/new ... jdd7rz8c8q
Fair and balanced questions and points.
And the arena VS field argument angle doesn't work. If that were the case, the Women's Pro Soccer League would also pass up the NBA. Ironically, based on average attendance, even the NWSL is growing faster than the NBA (by ~750/match).
The MLS is growing both organically and through expansion at pretty substantial rates, and that’s not just through game attendance.Bart Harley Jarvis wrote:If you want to watch the best basketball players day-in and day-out, you're watching the NBA. If you want to watch the best soccer players play week-in and week-out, you're not watching MLS. MLS is grabbing past their prime stars (Messi, Bale, Beckham, Suarez) in an attempt to steal casual fans, and it seems to be working, in a very narrow sense. I don't at all anticipate the kids at soccer tournaments in Iowa wearing pink & black Miami jerseys to continue to root for Inter Miami in 3 years (nor do I think they've ever seen a Miami OR MLS game).
Comparing declining TV viewership for the NBA to attendance numbers for MLS is a terrible comparison.
Not if the USMNT continues on it's current trajectory (Just lost to Canada & Panama to get 4th place in CONCACAF Nations League). Again, I'm not disagreeing that soccer's popularity is growing, but I don't think the ultimate landing spot for those eyeballs is going to be MLS.Debaliviere91 wrote: ↑Mar 24, 2025The MLS is growing both organically and through expansion at pretty substantial rates, and that’s not just through game attendance.Bart Harley Jarvis wrote:If you want to watch the best basketball players day-in and day-out, you're watching the NBA. If you want to watch the best soccer players play week-in and week-out, you're not watching MLS. MLS is grabbing past their prime stars (Messi, Bale, Beckham, Suarez) in an attempt to steal casual fans, and it seems to be working, in a very narrow sense. I don't at all anticipate the kids at soccer tournaments in Iowa wearing pink & black Miami jerseys to continue to root for Inter Miami in 3 years (nor do I think they've ever seen a Miami OR MLS game).
Comparing declining TV viewership for the NBA to attendance numbers for MLS is a terrible comparison.
The gap to the NBA is significant, but it will continue to get smaller and the upcoming World Cup will only accelerate the MLS’s growth, just like it did last time.
Last time we held a World Cup, interest in soccer here increased dramatically and the MLS benefited. Same thing will happen again, even if our team specifically isn’t good. Increased interest in soccer drives growth for the MLS and that will only continue. I do some work with both the US Soccer Federation and the MLS, their growth projections over the next 10 years are substantial.Bart Harley Jarvis wrote:Not if the USMNT continues on it's current trajectory (Just lost to Canada & Panama to get 4th place in CONCACAF Nations League). Again, I'm not disagreeing that soccer's popularity is growing, but I don't think the ultimate landing spot for those eyeballs is going to be MLS.Debaliviere91 wrote: ↑Mar 24, 2025The MLS is growing both organically and through expansion at pretty substantial rates, and that’s not just through game attendance.Bart Harley Jarvis wrote:If you want to watch the best basketball players day-in and day-out, you're watching the NBA. If you want to watch the best soccer players play week-in and week-out, you're not watching MLS. MLS is grabbing past their prime stars (Messi, Bale, Beckham, Suarez) in an attempt to steal casual fans, and it seems to be working, in a very narrow sense. I don't at all anticipate the kids at soccer tournaments in Iowa wearing pink & black Miami jerseys to continue to root for Inter Miami in 3 years (nor do I think they've ever seen a Miami OR MLS game).
Comparing declining TV viewership for the NBA to attendance numbers for MLS is a terrible comparison.
The gap to the NBA is significant, but it will continue to get smaller and the upcoming World Cup will only accelerate the MLS’s growth, just like it did last time.
In my entire family who's in St. Louis, only one of them has Apple TV. The rest have just chosen to not follow the team. I don't disagree that making a deal with a streaming service is a good idea, but to have nearly all the games exclusively on one of the least popular streaming services was a pretty dumb idea in the beginning.GoHarvOrGoHome wrote: ↑Mar 25, 2025MLS on Apple TV was a move that was ahead of its time, it's paying dividends now though IMO. Instead of making big dollar deals with cable networks that are increasingly irrelevant today, a fan can just pay Apple TV and get every single game with no blackouts. It's simple for the customer, and is a strategy that I think will continue to pay off in growth.
Assuming the US doesn't fall into economic collapse and anarchy, MLS is setting itself up to be big enough to organically compete for the best players a decade from now.
If you're conflating hardware and software AppleTV, you're right. But AppleTV is a streaming platform that's available on most smart tvs these days.Auggie wrote: ↑Mar 25, 2025In my entire family who's in St. Louis, only one of them has Apple TV. The rest have just chosen to not follow the team. I don't disagree that making a deal with a streaming service is a good idea, but to have nearly all the games exclusively on one of the least popular streaming services was a pretty dumb idea in the beginning.GoHarvOrGoHome wrote: ↑Mar 25, 2025MLS on Apple TV was a move that was ahead of its time, it's paying dividends now though IMO. Instead of making big dollar deals with cable networks that are increasingly irrelevant today, a fan can just pay Apple TV and get every single game with no blackouts. It's simple for the customer, and is a strategy that I think will continue to pay off in growth.
Assuming the US doesn't fall into economic collapse and anarchy, MLS is setting itself up to be big enough to organically compete for the best players a decade from now.
Ream is in Charlottebeer city wrote: ↑Mar 27, 2025MLS was on life support after the first season splash in 1996, while they have come a long way they are still # 5 amongst the big leagues. The salary cap holds them back and the TV revenue is still really low, there is such a crowded market in sports these days I am not sure they will get much higher then they are right now. They need to figure out a way to make offers to guys like Sargent, Ream and other US players who are good enough for the European first divisions to stay home, that would build the synergy between the clubs and the national team like you have in Europe.
As for the NBA I feel the product is getting a bit stale. That league also was on life support in the 70's, when I was a kid the NBA finals were on tape delay after the news . They really made the most out of capitalizing on the stars, first with Magic/Bird then the Jordan years were fun but 40 years of showcasing a handful of players is taking its toll, if you don't have one of the top 10 players in the league you are cannon fodder for the teams that do. That being said I would welcome a team... but we are not on the expansion radar, and I don't want some other city's team as that has not worked out well.
