urbanSTL

If WNBA is successful in St. Louis. I could see the NBA looking to either relocate a weak market team or expansion team to St. Louis. Let's hope we can get it.

Unfortunately, I feel this is just a little too late to be taken seriously for the 16th spot. Good to have them ready for the 17th -20th though!

My wife and I went to a WNBA playoff game at the Barclays Cemter in NY when we visited our daughter there a few weeks ago. Very exciting. Fast paced. Not just 7 footers. More like BB was meant to be played. 10 minute quarters so the game moves fast. I thought then we could support a WNBA team here.


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Piggybacking off Gary comments and believe that is also where the Nets play.   

I could very well be mistaken but haven't the last couple of WNBA announced franchises have gone to cities/parties with existing NBA teams/affliations?  Makes sense to me that is where things are headed with NBA and WNBA becoming much more intertwined between everyone and especially with owner groups.   Thinking out west here and the San Francisco new WNBA team.   Unfortunately for St. Louis I also think it bodes well or better for cities with existing NBA teams instead of WNBA seeking new markets outside of current NBA markets

Unfortunately, this is a typical STL response to a rival city’s initial push for a franchise. Pat and Brittany Mahomes are far ahead of us in their pursuit, and have already proven their ownership chops with their NWSL team.

KC has NFL, MLB, MLS and NWSL teams and is gunning for a WNBA team. STL has MLB, NHL and MLS and quickly cobbled together an ownership group because they saw KC doing it. And KC has 700,000 less people in their MSA. One day STL will be at the forefront of great civic ideas instead of being late to every goddam party.

whitherSTL wrote: ↑

Nov 01, 2024

Unfortunately, this is a typical STL response to a rival city’s initial push for a franchise. Pat and Brittany Mahomes are far ahead of us in their pursuit, and have already proven their ownership chops with their NWSL team.

KC has NFL, MLB, MLS and NWSL teams and is gunning for a WNBA team. STL has MLB, NHL and MLS and quickly cobbled together an ownership group because they saw KC doing it. And KC has 700,000 less people in their MSA. One day STL will be at the forefront of great civic ideas instead of being late to every goddam party.

I would doubt this was a reaction to KCs bid. It is hard for me to believe people with that much money would bid just because KC is bidding. I’d imagine they already were planning to get involved regardless.

All that said. 200 million for a wnba team when wnba isn’t making any money seems a bit crazy. But I guess it’s not my money

You really think someone "cobbled together" two billionaires and one of the wealthiest basketball players in NBA to win a pissing contest with KC? Chafietz obviously supports St. Louis basketball (Chafietz Arena) and has been transparent in their interest to own a team for years. I agree with you that STL isn't going to be the 16th team but STL has put together an undeniable ownership and arena offer. 

Also, I'd put a very handsome bet that St. Louis has an NWSL team reasonably soon. Carolyn Kindle wants, Carolyn Kindle gets.

If STL puts together a solid bid for a WNBA league they would get one eventually. Especially with the current hot streak for the league. Once the labor situation is figured out they need to strike while the iron is hot and expand quickly

The writer makes valid points on returning the NBA to STL:

https://www.msn.com/en-us/sports/nba/st ... c1c5&ei=19

courtland wrote: ↑

Nov 13, 2024

The writer makes valid points on returning the NBA to STL:

https://www.msn.com/en-us/sports/nba/st ... c1c5&ei=19

I'd love to see St Louis get an NBA team. Even with the MLS team, there is a major void in the St. Louis sports scene. I think St. Louis needs at least one of the big 2, either NBA or NFL back. 

I've mentioned this before but the NBA should definitely look at St. Louis as an expansion city after Vegas and Seattle. It's a league that continues to grow at a global scale with increasing viewership outside of the US and I believe we have the means and infrastructure to support an expansion team. If we commit to a major renovation of the Enterprise Center and we have the deep pockets needed to make a bid, I believe the NBA would be hard pressed to not try to expand here. The obvious other candidate would be Kansas City but I think it would be a harder market to penetrate given the dominance of the Chiefs and the long lasting success of KU basketball - plus I think it would be a better candidate for a NHL expansion team over the NBA. I like the energy behind the push to get a WNBA franchise and hopefully if we are granted an expansion team, we can demonstrate our commitment to supporting basketball in the region! I think we also would have the opportunity to capture a large market share in terms of fans and viewers - the entire state, southern IL, possibly Kentucky and Iowa or Nebraska - which would help sell the idea of having a team in STL. 

I'm wondering who from the region could be involved in an ownership stake or bid for an expansion team?

AJ1289 wrote: ↑

Nov 14, 2024

I've mentioned this before but the NBA should definitely look at St. Louis as an expansion city after Vegas and Seattle. It's a league that continues to grow at a global scale with increasing viewership outside of the US and I believe we have the means and infrastructure to support an expansion team. If we commit to a major renovation of the Enterprise Center and we have the deep pockets needed to make a bid, I believe the NBA would be hard pressed to not try to expand here. The obvious other candidate would be Kansas City but I think it would be a harder market to penetrate given the dominance of the Chiefs and the long lasting success of KU basketball - plus I think it would be a better candidate for a NHL expansion team over the NBA. I like the energy behind the push to get a WNBA franchise and hopefully if we are granted an expansion team, we can demonstrate our commitment to supporting basketball in the region! I think we also would have the opportunity to capture a large market share in terms of fans and viewers - the entire state, southern IL, possibly Kentucky and Iowa or Nebraska - which would help sell the idea of having a team in STL. 

I'm wondering who from the region could be involved in an ownership stake or bid for an expansion team?

David Steward.  He has expressed interest and wouldn't need any partners.  Richard Chaifetz has also expressed interest and could definitely put together a solid ownership group.  

STLAPTS wrote: ↑

Nov 14, 2024

AJ1289 wrote: ↑

Nov 14, 2024

I've mentioned this before but the NBA should definitely look at St. Louis as an expansion city after Vegas and Seattle. It's a league that continues to grow at a global scale with increasing viewership outside of the US and I believe we have the means and infrastructure to support an expansion team. If we commit to a major renovation of the Enterprise Center and we have the deep pockets needed to make a bid, I believe the NBA would be hard pressed to not try to expand here. The obvious other candidate would be Kansas City but I think it would be a harder market to penetrate given the dominance of the Chiefs and the long lasting success of KU basketball - plus I think it would be a better candidate for a NHL expansion team over the NBA. I like the energy behind the push to get a WNBA franchise and hopefully if we are granted an expansion team, we can demonstrate our commitment to supporting basketball in the region! I think we also would have the opportunity to capture a large market share in terms of fans and viewers - the entire state, southern IL, possibly Kentucky and Iowa or Nebraska - which would help sell the idea of having a team in STL. 

I'm wondering who from the region could be involved in an ownership stake or bid for an expansion team?

David Steward.  He has expressed interest and wouldn't need any partners.  Richard Chaifetz has also expressed interest and could definitely put together a solid ownership group.  

He would still need an ownership group, unless he is willing to drop $2.5 Billion solo. I would expect a duo of those two if they make a bid at an expansion team.

dweebe wrote:

AJ1289 wrote: ↑

Nov 14, 2024

I've mentioned this before but the NBA should definitely look at St. Louis as an expansion city after Vegas and Seattle. It's a league that continues to grow at a global scale with increasing viewership outside of the US and I believe we have the means and infrastructure to support an expansion team. If we commit to a major renovation of the Enterprise Center and we have the deep pockets needed to make a bid, I believe the NBA would be hard pressed to not try to expand here. The obvious other candidate would be Kansas City but I think it would be a harder market to penetrate given the dominance of the Chiefs and the long lasting success of KU basketball - plus I think it would be a better candidate for a NHL expansion team over the NBA. I like the energy behind the push to get a WNBA franchise and hopefully if we are granted an expansion team, we can demonstrate our commitment to supporting basketball in the region! I think we also would have the opportunity to capture a large market share in terms of fans and viewers - the entire state, southern IL, possibly Kentucky and Iowa or Nebraska - which would help sell the idea of having a team in STL. 

I'm wondering who from the region could be involved in an ownership stake or bid for an expansion team?

1. The NBA is not going to be the first league to cross the mythical 32 team barrier the North American leagues have.
2. The NBA will expand to Vegas and Seattle for their deep expansion pockets and then look to weak markets (New Orleans, Memphis) to improve or get moved.
3. The Enterprise Center is not expandable enough to be home for NHL AND NBA teams. It was part of the reason the Vancouver Grizzlies were stopped from moving here. It would take a whole new arena

Feels like this forum has to be reminded of these realities every 6 weeks or so.


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dweebe wrote: ↑

Nov 14, 2024

AJ1289 wrote: ↑

Nov 14, 2024

I've mentioned this before but the NBA should definitely look at St. Louis as an expansion city after Vegas and Seattle. It's a league that continues to grow at a global scale with increasing viewership outside of the US and I believe we have the means and infrastructure to support an expansion team. If we commit to a major renovation of the Enterprise Center and we have the deep pockets needed to make a bid, I believe the NBA would be hard pressed to not try to expand here. The obvious other candidate would be Kansas City but I think it would be a harder market to penetrate given the dominance of the Chiefs and the long lasting success of KU basketball - plus I think it would be a better candidate for a NHL expansion team over the NBA. I like the energy behind the push to get a WNBA franchise and hopefully if we are granted an expansion team, we can demonstrate our commitment to supporting basketball in the region! I think we also would have the opportunity to capture a large market share in terms of fans and viewers - the entire state, southern IL, possibly Kentucky and Iowa or Nebraska - which would help sell the idea of having a team in STL. 

I'm wondering who from the region could be involved in an ownership stake or bid for an expansion team?

1. The NBA is not going to be the first league to cross the mythical 32 team barrier the North American leagues have.
2. The NBA will expand to Vegas and Seattle for their deep expansion pockets and then look to weak markets (New Orleans, Memphis) to improve or get moved.
3. The Enterprise Center is not expandable enough to be home for NHL AND NBA teams. It was part of the reason the Vancouver Grizzlies were stopped from moving here. It would take a whole new arena

You're absolutely right, it's unrealistic to expect a legitimate NBA bid without a plan to rebuild the Enterprise Center into a world class, modern, multi-purpose venue. Achieving this would require agreement between the Blues' current ownership, the prospective NBA ownership group, and the city. The cost for the arena alone would likely range from $1.5 to $2 billion, not to mention the rumored $2.5 billion expansion fee on top of that.

The best shot St. Louis has at landing an NBA franchise—and it's not even close—is this hypothetical ownership group outright purchasing an existing team, like the New Orleans Pelicans, and relocate them to St. Louis. This would likely hinge on a major push from local guys like Brad Beal and Jayson Tatum.

I think we have a better shot at getting a team to relocate, Like New Orleans and Memphis were mentioned. They are much smaller and poorer markets, barely holding on. Of course, we would definitely need a new stadium and a ownership group that's willing to buy in. It could happen, but likely a long shot in the short term.

dweebe wrote: ↑

Nov 14, 2024

AJ1289 wrote: ↑

Nov 14, 2024

I've mentioned this before but the NBA should definitely look at St. Louis as an expansion city after Vegas and Seattle. It's a league that continues to grow at a global scale with increasing viewership outside of the US and I believe we have the means and infrastructure to support an expansion team. If we commit to a major renovation of the Enterprise Center and we have the deep pockets needed to make a bid, I believe the NBA would be hard pressed to not try to expand here. The obvious other candidate would be Kansas City but I think it would be a harder market to penetrate given the dominance of the Chiefs and the long lasting success of KU basketball - plus I think it would be a better candidate for a NHL expansion team over the NBA. I like the energy behind the push to get a WNBA franchise and hopefully if we are granted an expansion team, we can demonstrate our commitment to supporting basketball in the region! I think we also would have the opportunity to capture a large market share in terms of fans and viewers - the entire state, southern IL, possibly Kentucky and Iowa or Nebraska - which would help sell the idea of having a team in STL. 

I'm wondering who from the region could be involved in an ownership stake or bid for an expansion team?

1. The NBA is not going to be the first league to cross the mythical 32 team barrier the North American leagues have.
2. The NBA will expand to Vegas and Seattle for their deep expansion pockets and then look to weak markets (New Orleans, Memphis) to improve or get moved.
3. The Enterprise Center is not expandable enough to be home for NHL AND NBA teams. It was part of the reason the Vancouver Grizzlies were stopped from moving here. It would take a whole new arena

Again - if you read what I wrote, I clearly spelled out that this won't happen till Vegas or Seattle gets their expansion team. It's been made clear numerous times that this is way the league will expand so I fully grasp that reality and have stated as such. As for the expansion of the Enterprise Center - I think ideas have been shared on how this can be done including possibly moving the Muni Court and Dept of Health to a new location or tearing down the Kiel Garage and expanding on that footprint there while building a new improved garage spot across Clark. One radical thought could be to move the Post Office operations to another part of the city and tear down the building there or repurposing parts of the building for loading and deliveries and creating some kind of tunnel to the arena - something I was brainstorming a bit just now. 

dweebe wrote: ↑

Nov 14, 2024

Debaliviere91 wrote: ↑

Nov 14, 2024

dweebe wrote:

1. The NBA is not going to be the first league to cross the mythical 32 team barrier the North American leagues have.
2. The NBA will expand to Vegas and Seattle for their deep expansion pockets and then look to weak markets (New Orleans, Memphis) to improve or get moved.
3. The Enterprise Center is not expandable enough to be home for NHL AND NBA teams. It was part of the reason the Vancouver Grizzlies were stopped from moving here. It would take a whole new arena

Feels like this forum has to be reminded of these realities every 6 weeks or so.

For the 10th time, the Kiel/Enterprise Center was built on a small footprint and is one of the smallest arenas in the NBA/NHL. I'm not talking about the seating area itself as it's mid-pack and seats 18,000ish just like a lot of them. The problem is the back of house and support areas.

Enterprise Center is about 735,000 sq ft while pretty much every other NBA/NHL arena is 800,000 to 1,000,000 sq ft. The monster is the United Center which was built in the Michael Jordan heyday Bulls and tips the scale at over 1.1 million sq ft. The Blues moved their offices to the basement of the Stifel Theater and that helped somewhat, but still leaves things a challenge.

If an NBA team did relocate to St. Louis with no new arena, they'd probably have to do a new annex that involved tearing down either the old Civil Courts or the current City Health/City Courts buildings.

Could they tear down the attached parking garage and just add onto the building with that land?

dweebe wrote: ↑

Nov 14, 2024

Debaliviere91 wrote: ↑

Nov 14, 2024

dweebe wrote:

1. The NBA is not going to be the first league to cross the mythical 32 team barrier the North American leagues have.
2. The NBA will expand to Vegas and Seattle for their deep expansion pockets and then look to weak markets (New Orleans, Memphis) to improve or get moved.
3. The Enterprise Center is not expandable enough to be home for NHL AND NBA teams. It was part of the reason the Vancouver Grizzlies were stopped from moving here. It would take a whole new arena

Feels like this forum has to be reminded of these realities every 6 weeks or so.

For the 10th time, the Kiel/Enterprise Center was built on a small footprint and is one of the smallest arenas in the NBA/NHL. I'm not talking about the seating area itself as it's mid-pack and seats 18,000ish just like a lot of them. The problem is the back of house and support areas.

Enterprise Center is about 735,000 sq ft while pretty much every other NBA/NHL arena is 800,000 to 1,000,000 sq ft. The monster is the United Center which was built in the Michael Jordan heyday Bulls and tips the scale at over 1.1 million sq ft. The Blues moved their offices to the basement of the Stifel Theater and that helped somewhat, but still leaves things a challenge.

If an NBA team did relocate to St. Louis with no new arena, they'd probably have to do a new annex that involved tearing down either the old Civil Courts or the current City Health/City Courts buildings.

This is something people don't realize. I work at Gainbridge Fieldhouse in Indianapolis security and has 800 fewer seats than Enterprise and 7,000 fewer when it's in hockey configuration- but it's significantly larger than Enterprise on so many levels. Way more clubs, the concourses are larger, the main entrance is larger....etc. I think Enterprise could potentially cut more seats to add more premium stuff like they've done in the past, but I really don't think Enterprise would be a good long term NBA arena. They are on par with food options though.