Oklahoma City has approved construction of a new $1B arena for the Oklahoma City Thunder, largely paid for by a 1 cent city sales tax approved by voters. It will be built downtown next door to the current arena after they demolish their old Cox convention center, which I believe used to be called the Myriad. The current Paycom arena which opened in 2002 is considered obsolete. https://freepressokc.com/spot-chosen-in ... nba-arena/
I was at your fine building this last weekend for the Knicks game. Yes, it is a larger arena starting with that big lobby and two step entry area.Auggie wrote: ↑Nov 15, 2024This is something people don't realize. I work at Gainbridge Fieldhouse in Indianapolis security and has 800 fewer seats than Enterprise and 7,000 fewer when it's in hockey configuration- but it's significantly larger than Enterprise on so many levels. Way more clubs, the concourses are larger, the main entrance is larger....etc. I think Enterprise could potentially cut more seats to add more premium stuff like they've done in the past, but I really don't think Enterprise would be a good long term NBA arena. They are on par with food options though.
This then extends to the wider concourses. Plus that scoreboard is huge and other LED boards at the two ends with stats are nice. The only thing I didn't like was how high the two sides of the upper deck were.
(The only other thing I didn't like was the super tough bag policy that caused me to have to take my wife's stuff back to the car. I've been to many other arenas (United Center, Madison Square Garden, FedEx Forum, Capital One Center and others) and never seen such tight restrictions. )
If you tore it down and built one on the other side of the metro tracks, where all the surface parking is, I assume it would sell out also.Auggie wrote: ↑Nov 15, 2024Not really. The parking garage is sold out pretty much every game and is directly attached. At best they could add a new main atrium maybe? Where other arenas get their square feet is in more clubs, larger concourses, etc.jshank83 wrote: ↑Nov 15, 2024Could they tear down the attached parking garage and just add onto the building with that land?dweebe wrote: ↑Nov 14, 2024For the 10th time, the Kiel/Enterprise Center was built on a small footprint and is one of the smallest arenas in the NBA/NHL. I'm not talking about the seating area itself as it's mid-pack and seats 18,000ish just like a lot of them. The problem is the back of house and support areas.
Enterprise Center is about 735,000 sq ft while pretty much every other NBA/NHL arena is 800,000 to 1,000,000 sq ft. The monster is the United Center which was built in the Michael Jordan heyday Bulls and tips the scale at over 1.1 million sq ft. The Blues moved their offices to the basement of the Stifel Theater and that helped somewhat, but still leaves things a challenge.
If an NBA team did relocate to St. Louis with no new arena, they'd probably have to do a new annex that involved tearing down either the old Civil Courts or the current City Health/City Courts buildings.
Now that’s probably owned by someone else, but if that is the thing keeping you from adding space for locker rooms, etc get an nba team then you figure it out.
- 732
OKC on the move! High-rises, billion dollar arenas. What fun!
Interesting they voted to raise prices 1% when inflation was so bad.
Edit - It doesn't start until 2028.
Only $50M from the team.
Edit - It doesn't start until 2028.
Only $50M from the team.
The lot across the Metro tracks is also City owned and operated. The last time I parked in that lot was earlier this year for the Harlem Globetrotters and it was staffed with City employees just like the Kiel Garage and City Hall lots.jshank83 wrote: ↑Nov 18, 2024If you tore it down and built one on the other side of the metro tracks, where all the surface parking is, I assume it would sell out also.Auggie wrote: ↑Nov 15, 2024Not really. The parking garage is sold out pretty much every game and is directly attached. At best they could add a new main atrium maybe? Where other arenas get their square feet is in more clubs, larger concourses, etc.jshank83 wrote: ↑Nov 15, 2024Could they tear down the attached parking garage and just add onto the building with that land?
Now that’s probably owned by someone else, but if that is the thing keeping you from adding space for locker rooms, etc get an nba team then you figure it out.
There's no way a metro area of under a million supports 3 major sports teams
But if they miracle the NHL to New Orleans, the Pelicans are toast.
But if they miracle the NHL to New Orleans, the Pelicans are toast.
- 913
New Orleans gets a tourism bump but that doesn’t seem to actually play out in revenue success. Saints are in the bottom 4 and Pelicans are second to last. I also would think the NHL could find a comparable or larger market to New Orleans wheee (a) they would be the only show in town & (b) hockey is more popular already or has more potential for popularity than in Louisiana.
Providence, RI; Hartford, CT; Rochester, NY; even Omaha would be a more interesting market I think. Two of those would be where I would be thinking (or their Canadian comparables)
Be the show in town. That would be my approach if they are going to go to smaller markets like NOLA. Otherwise, I don’t understand competing with other teams in a small sunbelt market like NOLA, rather than just returning to the mega sun belt markets like Atlanta or Houston
Providence, RI; Hartford, CT; Rochester, NY; even Omaha would be a more interesting market I think. Two of those would be where I would be thinking (or their Canadian comparables)
Be the show in town. That would be my approach if they are going to go to smaller markets like NOLA. Otherwise, I don’t understand competing with other teams in a small sunbelt market like NOLA, rather than just returning to the mega sun belt markets like Atlanta or Houston
I could easily see KC being a midwest frontrunner, though well behind another TX team in Houston or Austin or Atlanta. I don't see the market in New Orleans at all.delmar2debaliviere2downtown wrote: ↑Feb 20, 2025New Orleans gets a tourism bump but that doesn’t seem to actually play out in revenue success. Saints are in the bottom 4 and Pelicans are second to last. I also would think the NHL could find a comparable or larger market to New Orleans wheee (a) they would be the only show in town & (b) hockey is more popular already or has more potential for popularity than in Louisiana.
Providence, RI; Hartford, CT; Rochester, NY; even Omaha would be a more interesting market I think. Two of those would be where I would be thinking (or their Canadian comparables)
Be the show in town. That would be my approach if they are going to go to smaller markets like NOLA. Otherwise, I don’t understand competing with other teams in a small sunbelt market like NOLA, rather than just returning to the mega sun belt markets like Atlanta or Houston
The smallest city with 3 of the big 4 pro sports team leagues is Pittsburgh at 2.6 million in their MSA. Someone explain to me at under 1 million New Orleans realistically does it.bwcrow1s wrote: ↑Feb 20, 2025I could easily see KC being a midwest frontrunner, though well behind another TX team in Houston or Austin or Atlanta. I don't see the market in New Orleans at all.delmar2debaliviere2downtown wrote: ↑Feb 20, 2025New Orleans gets a tourism bump but that doesn’t seem to actually play out in revenue success. Saints are in the bottom 4 and Pelicans are second to last. I also would think the NHL could find a comparable or larger market to New Orleans wheee (a) they would be the only show in town & (b) hockey is more popular already or has more potential for popularity than in Louisiana.
Providence, RI; Hartford, CT; Rochester, NY; even Omaha would be a more interesting market I think. Two of those would be where I would be thinking (or their Canadian comparables)
Be the show in town. That would be my approach if they are going to go to smaller markets like NOLA. Otherwise, I don’t understand competing with other teams in a small sunbelt market like NOLA, rather than just returning to the mega sun belt markets like Atlanta or Houston
- 913
KC, Cincinnati and Omaha are the midwest cities that have tried to at least throw their hat in the ring at different times. I’m a little surprised Milwaukee and Indianapolis havent made a pushbwcrow1s wrote: ↑Feb 20, 2025I could easily see KC being a midwest frontrunner, though well behind another TX team in Houston or Austin or Atlanta. I don't see the market in New Orleans at all.delmar2debaliviere2downtown wrote: ↑Feb 20, 2025New Orleans gets a tourism bump but that doesn’t seem to actually play out in revenue success. Saints are in the bottom 4 and Pelicans are second to last. I also would think the NHL could find a comparable or larger market to New Orleans wheee (a) they would be the only show in town & (b) hockey is more popular already or has more potential for popularity than in Louisiana.
Providence, RI; Hartford, CT; Rochester, NY; even Omaha would be a more interesting market I think. Two of those would be where I would be thinking (or their Canadian comparables)
Be the show in town. That would be my approach if they are going to go to smaller markets like NOLA. Otherwise, I don’t understand competing with other teams in a small sunbelt market like NOLA, rather than just returning to the mega sun belt markets like Atlanta or Houston
I don’t think the NHL will be expanding anytime super soon and when they do it will be Houston and Quebec City in my opinion. Not my preferences as I would like to see a new US city enter the big 4 sports or a regional rivalry for the Blues but that’s just my guess
Houston, Atlanta, ans Pheonix are probably the top 3 right now. Quebec City's metro is less than 1M and they already give the NHL money without a team. No real reason for the NHL to expand there financially.
- 913
Financially speaking, they may be best to put a second team in the Toronto metro than any of these options which I think will be on the tableAuggie wrote: ↑Feb 20, 2025Houston, Atlanta, ans Pheonix are probably the top 3 right now. Quebec City's metro is less than 1M and they already give the NHL money without a team. No real reason for the NHL to expand there financially.
I'd actually say that'd be 4 or 5. The GTA could definitely sustain a second team. I could see it above PHX too. But Atlanta and Houston are definitely ahead because they're in the US and the Canadian economy is in shambles compared to the US economy. There's just more long term growth potential in American cities compared to Canadian cities right now.delmar2debaliviere2downtown wrote: ↑Feb 20, 2025Financially speaking, they may be best to put a second team in the Toronto metro than any of these options which I think will be on the tableAuggie wrote: ↑Feb 20, 2025Houston, Atlanta, ans Pheonix are probably the top 3 right now. Quebec City's metro is less than 1M and they already give the NHL money without a team. No real reason for the NHL to expand there financially.
Went to a Pelicans game at Smoothie King Center in New Orleans.
The stench of a dying franchise is all over the arena. The place might have been 1/4 full with most of the upper bowl empty. Half the food stands were closed. Hardly any lines for anything. No energy except for the one time Zion Williamson dunked over someone. I paid $32 for a good seat about 20 rows back.
I felt bad for the fans.
Plus it’s not really a very easy building to enter with only one main entrance. I can’t imagine what it’s like when they do have a sold out event.
Felt far worse than any of the St. Louis Rams games.
The stench of a dying franchise is all over the arena. The place might have been 1/4 full with most of the upper bowl empty. Half the food stands were closed. Hardly any lines for anything. No energy except for the one time Zion Williamson dunked over someone. I paid $32 for a good seat about 20 rows back.
I felt bad for the fans.
Plus it’s not really a very easy building to enter with only one main entrance. I can’t imagine what it’s like when they do have a sold out event.
Felt far worse than any of the St. Louis Rams games.
The NBA would even see Enterprise Center as an upgrade over Smoothie King Arena.
Ideally for STL, Seattle and Las Vegas get expansion teams so they wouldn't be competing for the Pelicans.
- 1,610
I just want Memphis and New Orleans to relocate to the West somewhere, and Minnesota to move from the Western to Eastern Conference.Auggie wrote: ↑Mar 18, 2025The NBA would even see Enterprise Center as an upgrade over Smoothie King Arena.
Ideally for STL, Seattle and Las Vegas get expansion teams so they wouldn't be competing for the Pelicans.
- 2,419
I think Kansas City, Nashville, and other markets are going to try for the Pelicans as well.
I don't know what the NBA will want, but I remain skeptical that the NBA is going to want to come to St. Louis.
I don't know what the NBA will want, but I remain skeptical that the NBA is going to want to come to St. Louis.
Nashville’s push is for the MLB.RockChalkSTL wrote: ↑Mar 18, 2025I think Kansas City, Nashville, and other markets are going to try for the Pelicans as well.
I don't know what the NBA will want, but I remain skeptical that the NBA is going to want to come to St. Louis.
If Nashville got the NBA it would just be a relocation of the Memphis Grizzlies.
Oh I'm also skeptical and I still hold that Enterprise is not an NBA level venue, but the Pelicans probably would be STL's best shot at an NBA team if we wanted to try and get one.RockChalkSTL wrote: ↑Mar 18, 2025I think Kansas City, Nashville, and other markets are going to try for the Pelicans as well.
I don't know what the NBA will want, but I remain skeptical that the NBA is going to want to come to St. Louis.
- 913
Probably will all come down to timing. There will be at least one relocation, maybe 2 and since the NBA is at 30 there will likely be 2 new teams. Similar situation to the MLB.
Vegas and Seattle are taking two of those spots no doubt.
Then it will be a pool for one or two teams of Kansas City, St. Louis, San Diego, Louisville, Cincinnati, Columbus, (Nashville only if a Memphis relocation) that could bid and have a shot.
If we are set for a new arena at the time of an expansion/relocation, St. Louis could probably set itself up to be the favorite with the right package, being the second biggest market of that pool and not facing the CA competition of the only bigger market San Diego. If two teams are in the table, I think StL could definitely steal one.
MLB - Nashville taking one spot no doubt. Then it will be a pool for 2 or 3 teams of Charlotte, Raleigh, San Antonio, Austin, Orlando, Monterrey, Montreal, Portland, Salt Lake City, (San Juan if PR becomes a state). I wish Tokyo and MX city were feasible, that would be awesome.
Cardinals could get a new division foe in Nashville depending on how MLB does it.
NFL - Jacksonville getting a new stadium deal makes it a wash right now. No expansion or relocation on the horizon in my opinion. Hypothetical pool would be Toronto, San Antonio, San Diego, Mexico City, London, St. Louis. Bengals relocation, or a 4 team expansion would be St. Louis’s best chance as things stand right now.
NHL - Not sure how many teams could be had, but pool would be Kansas City, Quebec City, Toronto #2, Houston, Atlanta, Hartford, Cincinnati, Omaha.
Unlikely to be KC, but a new hockey rivalry would be fun.
Other sports - I think St. Louis gets a women’s soccer team sometime soon. Longshots of Maryville University and SLU adding Div 1 ice hockey. SLU is a prime school to move to a major conference if non Football members are added because of St. Louis market size. Longshot of UMSL moving some sports into Div 1.
There’s always discussions about WashU using sports to promote its brand because of its name and smaller college sports. I actually think it would be worth the money to get into Div 1 (and they could certainly raise the funds). I always say the schools that get the most street cred for being “smart schools” are good academic schools that stink at college football - people then blame their high academic standards! Nothing seems to indicate WashU is contemplating this right now besides their campus expansion.
Vegas and Seattle are taking two of those spots no doubt.
Then it will be a pool for one or two teams of Kansas City, St. Louis, San Diego, Louisville, Cincinnati, Columbus, (Nashville only if a Memphis relocation) that could bid and have a shot.
If we are set for a new arena at the time of an expansion/relocation, St. Louis could probably set itself up to be the favorite with the right package, being the second biggest market of that pool and not facing the CA competition of the only bigger market San Diego. If two teams are in the table, I think StL could definitely steal one.
MLB - Nashville taking one spot no doubt. Then it will be a pool for 2 or 3 teams of Charlotte, Raleigh, San Antonio, Austin, Orlando, Monterrey, Montreal, Portland, Salt Lake City, (San Juan if PR becomes a state). I wish Tokyo and MX city were feasible, that would be awesome.
Cardinals could get a new division foe in Nashville depending on how MLB does it.
NFL - Jacksonville getting a new stadium deal makes it a wash right now. No expansion or relocation on the horizon in my opinion. Hypothetical pool would be Toronto, San Antonio, San Diego, Mexico City, London, St. Louis. Bengals relocation, or a 4 team expansion would be St. Louis’s best chance as things stand right now.
NHL - Not sure how many teams could be had, but pool would be Kansas City, Quebec City, Toronto #2, Houston, Atlanta, Hartford, Cincinnati, Omaha.
Unlikely to be KC, but a new hockey rivalry would be fun.
Other sports - I think St. Louis gets a women’s soccer team sometime soon. Longshots of Maryville University and SLU adding Div 1 ice hockey. SLU is a prime school to move to a major conference if non Football members are added because of St. Louis market size. Longshot of UMSL moving some sports into Div 1.
There’s always discussions about WashU using sports to promote its brand because of its name and smaller college sports. I actually think it would be worth the money to get into Div 1 (and they could certainly raise the funds). I always say the schools that get the most street cred for being “smart schools” are good academic schools that stink at college football - people then blame their high academic standards! Nothing seems to indicate WashU is contemplating this right now besides their campus expansion.
^ I love how the huge sign at Wash U's sports complex on the main campus brags about their "Scholar Champions"; not their sports teams.
- 29
Cincy had an NBA team at one point... Cincinnati Royals. The NBA is struggling and moving in the wrong direction. It won't be long before MLS overtakes the NBA.delmar2debaliviere2downtown wrote: ↑Feb 20, 2025KC, Cincinnati and Omaha are the midwest cities that have tried to at least throw their hat in the ring at different times. I’m a little surprised Milwaukee and Indianapolis havent made a pushbwcrow1s wrote: ↑Feb 20, 2025I could easily see KC being a midwest frontrunner, though well behind another TX team in Houston or Austin or Atlanta. I don't see the market in New Orleans at all.delmar2debaliviere2downtown wrote: ↑Feb 20, 2025New Orleans gets a tourism bump but that doesn’t seem to actually play out in revenue success. Saints are in the bottom 4 and Pelicans are second to last. I also would think the NHL could find a comparable or larger market to New Orleans wheee (a) they would be the only show in town & (b) hockey is more popular already or has more potential for popularity than in Louisiana.
Providence, RI; Hartford, CT; Rochester, NY; even Omaha would be a more interesting market I think. Two of those would be where I would be thinking (or their Canadian comparables)
Be the show in town. That would be my approach if they are going to go to smaller markets like NOLA. Otherwise, I don’t understand competing with other teams in a small sunbelt market like NOLA, rather than just returning to the mega sun belt markets like Atlanta or Houston
I don’t think the NHL will be expanding anytime super soon and when they do it will be Houston and Quebec City in my opinion. Not my preferences as I would like to see a new US city enter the big 4 sports or a regional rivalry for the Blues but that’s just my guess
Our situation is unique... we have an NHL team just a little over an hour away (Columbus Blue Jackets and an NBA the same distance (Pacers).