Perhaps even parking?urbanitas wrote: ↑Apr 13, 2021Parking, loading docks, back-of-house, parking, storage, emergency generators, electrical substation, parking, stormwater detention, pedestrian connections between the stadium, team facility basement, and future below-grade garage, and/or parking...dweebe wrote: ↑Apr 13, 2021What exactly would we build below ground, under a new Market Street overpass?
The tunnel that leads under market will go to the stadiums loading dock / player and staff entrance / stadium back of house Ops etc. I remember earlier renderings of the south of market project had a parking garage that would be built beneath the practice fields; Those plans for the parking garage got scrapped likely due to cost or just being not practical for the project as the scope matured and was finalized. That garage i dont believe was ever going to be a public garage anyways, it would have been used for players and Front Office staff when the HQ was still on the main plot of land south of market and the training facility.DTGstl314 wrote: ↑Apr 13, 2021Perhaps even parking?urbanitas wrote: ↑Apr 13, 2021Parking, loading docks, back-of-house, parking, storage, emergency generators, electrical substation, parking, stormwater detention, pedestrian connections between the stadium, team facility basement, and future below-grade garage, and/or parking...dweebe wrote: ↑Apr 13, 2021What exactly would we build below ground, under a new Market Street overpass?
The area really is lacking in parking and clearly needs more.DTGstl314 wrote: ↑Apr 13, 2021Perhaps even parking?urbanitas wrote: ↑Apr 13, 2021Parking, loading docks, back-of-house, parking, storage, emergency generators, electrical substation, parking, stormwater detention, pedestrian connections between the stadium, team facility basement, and future below-grade garage, and/or parking...dweebe wrote: ↑Apr 13, 2021What exactly would we build below ground, under a new Market Street overpass?
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From your mouth to their ears...
BREAKING - St. Louis City SC announced acquisition of Butler and Railton Exchange buildings, both to be demolished for much needed game day parking.
BREAKING - St. Louis City SC announced acquisition of Butler and Railton Exchange buildings, both to be demolished for much needed game day parking.
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You can't be serious! X( If true, this has to be stopped.Laife Fulk wrote: ↑Apr 13, 2021From your mouth to their ears...
BREAKING - St. Louis City SC announced acquisition of Butler and Railton Exchange buildings, both to be demolished for much needed game day parking.
Maybe. Amazon and Google were both going to relocate their main headquarters to the where the practice fields and team offices are going in. But since St. Louis pushed them away from that highly coveted land, we don't need that much parking any more. /jkLaife Fulk wrote: ↑Apr 14, 2021Should I have included Union Station too?
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Well, if it was a displaced April Fools joke that would have made it more obvious. I'm rather fond of both Butler Brothers and the Railton/YMCA. So far as I'm aware there's no Railton Exchange, but that could be a typo. Or a slip. Just pin Freudian to it and you can wear it as a Halloween costume.Laife Fulk wrote: ↑Apr 14, 2021Should I have included Union Station too?
Just tell me you got me worked up over nothing and it's all okay. 
I like how Dweebe used blue font for sarcasm, it helps for those with broken sarcasm meters.
Drone update photos for April 2021. A few things to note since my last update (which many people already know about)...
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Video fly around from my YouTube...
- Market Street has reopened.
- The steel structure on the eastern (20th Street) side is about halfway complete.
- Precast stadium seating sections have gone in on the western (22nd Street) side of the stadium as well as a set of stairs.
- South of Market Street, the Clark Avenue extension and training building outlines are now clearly visible.
Video fly around from my YouTube...
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The Amazon Google snark is cute, but if the land formerly occupied by the interchange—directly across the street from the new stadium and next door to Union Station—isn't valuable enough for something other than grass then neither is any of the other empty space around the stadium, in which case the Taylors were greatly exaggerating all the new CITY coming to DTW.
Plenty of uses in the area around the stadium: hotel, office, residential and retail primarily.urban_dilettante wrote: ↑Apr 19, 2021The Amazon Google snark is cute, but if the land formerly occupied by the interchange—directly across the street from the new stadium and next door to Union Station—isn't valuable enough for something other than grass then neither is any of the other empty space around the stadium, in which case the Taylors were greatly exaggerating all the new CITY coming to DTW.
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So I think there are a few things to point out. The ownership wanted to have their entire pipeline co-located...stadium, practice fields, academy, and HQ. Other than knocking down more buildings, the interchange was a good option for them to realize their vision. Also, and I know this will be a hard pill to swallow for some, but the land formerly occupied by the interchange isn't more valuable than grass right now. In the future, if the number of buildings in DTW start outnumbering surface parking and green space, then I think the criticism of that land usage can be discussed.urban_dilettante wrote: ↑Apr 19, 2021The Amazon Google snark is cute, but if the land formerly occupied by the interchange—directly across the street from the new stadium and next door to Union Station—isn't valuable enough for something other than grass then neither is any of the other empty space around the stadium, in which case the Taylors were greatly exaggerating all the new CITY coming to DTW.
Exaggeration or not, I think the Taylor's are hopeful that this will lead to development in DTW. If their philanthropy is any indication of their commitment to the City of St. Louis, then you should start seeing development pop up around the Stadium, but time will tell. Every step that they're taking seem to be very well thought out and very "pro-St. Louis".
Here's hoping the excitement around the team leads to excitement developing around DTW.
I'd love nothing more than land to become so scarce in downtown west that the practice fields have to go away and are replaced with good/smart development.pop_scientist wrote: ↑Apr 19, 2021So I think there are a few things to point out. The ownership wanted to have their entire pipeline co-located...stadium, practice fields, academy, and HQ. Other than knocking down more buildings, the interchange was a good option for them to realize their vision. Also, and I know this will be a hard pill to swallow for some, but the land formerly occupied by the interchange isn't more valuable than grass right now. In the future, if the number of buildings in DTW start outnumbering surface parking and green space, then I think the criticism of that land usage can be discussed.urban_dilettante wrote: ↑Apr 19, 2021The Amazon Google snark is cute, but if the land formerly occupied by the interchange—directly across the street from the new stadium and next door to Union Station—isn't valuable enough for something other than grass then neither is any of the other empty space around the stadium, in which case the Taylors were greatly exaggerating all the new CITY coming to DTW.
Exaggeration or not, I think the Taylor's are hopeful that this will lead to development in DTW. If their philanthropy is any indication of their commitment to the City of St. Louis, then you should start seeing development pop up around the Stadium, but time will tell. Every step that they're taking seem to be very well thought out and very "pro-St. Louis".
Here's hoping the excitement around the team leads to excitement developing around DTW.
I don't think anyone expected CITY to be developing residential, hotels, and entertainment on their 30+ acres. At least I didn't.pop_scientist wrote: ↑Apr 19, 2021So I think there are a few things to point out. The ownership wanted to have their entire pipeline co-located...stadium, practice fields, academy, and HQ. Other than knocking down more buildings, the interchange was a good option for them to realize their vision. Also, and I know this will be a hard pill to swallow for some, but the land formerly occupied by the interchange isn't more valuable than grass right now. In the future, if the number of buildings in DTW start outnumbering surface parking and green space, then I think the criticism of that land usage can be discussed.urban_dilettante wrote: ↑Apr 19, 2021The Amazon Google snark is cute, but if the land formerly occupied by the interchange—directly across the street from the new stadium and next door to Union Station—isn't valuable enough for something other than grass then neither is any of the other empty space around the stadium, in which case the Taylors were greatly exaggerating all the new CITY coming to DTW.
Exaggeration or not, I think the Taylor's are hopeful that this will lead to development in DTW. If their philanthropy is any indication of their commitment to the City of St. Louis, then you should start seeing development pop up around the Stadium, but time will tell. Every step that they're taking seem to be very well thought out and very "pro-St. Louis".
Here's hoping the excitement around the team leads to excitement developing around DTW.
Setting aside all of the new surface parking lots (after their early media comments that Downtown West has plenty of parking), the suburban blandness south of Market, and the general lack of space for fans - my main criticism above was that the plan and design for what is being built right now on their 30+ acres leaves few options or space for future improvements or investment. In other words, what you see is what you're going to get for the foreseeable future.
I'm sure they got sticker shock when they started adding up costs of their early wish list press releases, and had to scale everything back. That's understandable. But planning and accommodating some of those wish list items for future additions/phases doesn't cost much, and yet it seems they eliminated that as well.
When the new Ballpark was built it took how long for residential to pop around the stadium? Why would we expect DTW to generate residential when MLS offers far less home games and a much smaller fan base? Just a thought...
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I'm in total agreement with you there. Thinking back to the timeline of the Rams leaving and all of the tax incentive protests, I'm sure the budgets tightened. Remember, they still haven't fielded a team or staff yet...which will be expensive.urbanitas wrote: ↑Apr 20, 2021I don't think anyone expected CITY to be developing residential, hotels, and entertainment on their 30+ acres. At least I didn't.pop_scientist wrote: ↑Apr 19, 2021So I think there are a few things to point out. The ownership wanted to have their entire pipeline co-located...stadium, practice fields, academy, and HQ. Other than knocking down more buildings, the interchange was a good option for them to realize their vision. Also, and I know this will be a hard pill to swallow for some, but the land formerly occupied by the interchange isn't more valuable than grass right now. In the future, if the number of buildings in DTW start outnumbering surface parking and green space, then I think the criticism of that land usage can be discussed.urban_dilettante wrote: ↑Apr 19, 2021The Amazon Google snark is cute, but if the land formerly occupied by the interchange—directly across the street from the new stadium and next door to Union Station—isn't valuable enough for something other than grass then neither is any of the other empty space around the stadium, in which case the Taylors were greatly exaggerating all the new CITY coming to DTW.
Exaggeration or not, I think the Taylor's are hopeful that this will lead to development in DTW. If their philanthropy is any indication of their commitment to the City of St. Louis, then you should start seeing development pop up around the Stadium, but time will tell. Every step that they're taking seem to be very well thought out and very "pro-St. Louis".
Here's hoping the excitement around the team leads to excitement developing around DTW.
Setting aside all of the new surface parking lots (after their early media comments that Downtown West has plenty of parking), the suburban blandness south of Market, and the general lack of space for fans - my main criticism above was that the plan and design for what is being built right now on their 30+ acres leaves few options or space for future improvements or investment. In other words, what you see is what you're going to get for the foreseeable future.
I'm sure they got sticker shock when they started adding up costs of their early wish list press releases, and had to scale everything back. That's understandable. But planning and accommodating some of those wish list items for future additions/phases doesn't cost much, and yet it seems they eliminated that as well.
I don't think I would ever think that future/additional phases are off the table, but it might take time to assess where everything is at post-COVID and maybe a better tax incentive environment (how much have we given the Cardinals to build out Ballpark Village?)
Residential around Busch stadium (if you remove ballpark village) has been gradually increasing over the past 15 years: Point 400 & Cupples Station and soon to be 300 South Broadway. The problem becomes that most would like to see buildings with scale around the ballpark (I know I do), but that is a sizeable investment. I think in DTW, there are more opportunities to create density without large scale projects or villages...and I think it will happen faster than 15 years. The side benefit is that when density is achieved DTW, then there will be more larger projects pushing into downtown.
Even though MLS offers far less home games and a much smaller fan base (for now), I believe the Taylor's vision of the stadium encompasses more than just MLS soccer. They want that area lively for the whole year...soccer, international friendlies, concerts, etc...
In my opinion, DTW (and Midtown) should be looked at as a "Cortex area" but focused on residential. I think this area is going to feel and be a lot more fun than most think.
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Its not exactly apples to apples- the Cardinals controlled the land and the development at the ballpark. Other developers would have gladly jumped in before the Cardinals finally moved to build. DTW is an open ballgame for anyone to come in and build on all the empty lots around the stadium- Twain Financial owns a few that its currently leasing to MLS construction team for parking.STLinCHI wrote: ↑Apr 20, 2021When the new Ballpark was built it took how long for residential to pop around the stadium? Why would we expect DTW to generate residential when MLS offers far less home games and a much smaller fan base? Just a thought...
Part of the problem with Busch is that it’s locked around all sides with barriers. To the south it’s 64 and to the west it’s a metro station and already built buildings+ Catty corner is the stadium garage. Directly North is BPV development and on the east is a privately owned lot and an already built city block+Catty corner north side is the other stadium garage. Not to mention the stadiums proximity to 70, 10th and 11th street ramps and an abandoned hotel. The location of the MLS stadium is in a prime location in the sense that there is strong presence of a street grid with no barriers that would divide a neighborhood. I think stadium design does play into what the STL City wants to see happen around the stadium. It’s not Goliath and barring like Cincinnati’s West End stadium. It’s approachable and human scaled which I think should be noted because it’s making a statement that Downtown West doesn’t need to be revived by overly large developers (smaller plots of land can be built with row housing etc.
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I personally think that focusing on residential would be more successful long term than trying to gain corporate offices. With work from home post COVID here to stay, I just don't see demand for exponentially more office space in the near future. Focus on getting more residents, and then once there's a stable critical mass small businesses will follow.
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Agreed. Its maddening that 64 is treated like an impenetrable barrier, its not.2020STL wrote: ↑Apr 20, 2021Part of the problem with Busch is that it’s locked around all sides with barriers. To the south it’s 64 and to the west it’s a metro station and already built buildings+ Catty corner is the stadium garage. Directly North is BPV development and on the east is a privately owned lot and an already built city block+Catty corner north side is the other stadium garage. Not to mention the stadiums proximity to 70, 10th and 11th street ramps and an abandoned hotel. The location of the MLS stadium is in a prime location in the sense that there is strong presence of a street grid with no barriers that would divide a neighborhood. I think stadium design does play into what the STL City wants to see happen around the stadium. It’s not Goliath and barring like Cincinnati’s West End stadium. It’s approachable and human scaled which I think should be noted because it’s making a statement that Downtown West doesn’t need to be revived by overly large developers (smaller plots of land can be built with row housing etc.