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Trianon Condominiums and Apartments

Trianon Condominiums and Apartments

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PostFeb 18, 2005#1

Information is from Deb Peterson's P-D column. I found the photo on the Internet a few years ago.



Assassinated Lebanese leader once invested in "Clayton Hole"

By Deb Peterson

Of the Post-Dispatch

02/18/2005








JUST PASSING THROUGH: In the small-world department, Rafik Hariri, the former Lebanese prime minister who was assassinated Monday in Beirut and is being mourned throughout the world, was once an investor in our town. In the early 1980s, Hariri was a contractor in Lebanon and became the largest investor locally in what was euphemistically called the "Clayton Hole."



The hole began as the $300 million Clayton Towers project, and I.E. Millstone, then topper of Millstone Construction, recalls his company excavating the 16-acre site for several months, digging 60-feet into rock and then beginning to shore up the perimeter of the property when the plug got pulled. "We got an order to stop construction. Just to stop," Millstone said Thursday. Shortly after that, Millstone said Hariri's agents and other investors came into town and put the property up for bid.



It was bought by developer George Capps' Capitol Land Co. and eventually became the site of the Ritz-Carlton with surrounding condominiums, office space and a restaurant. Richard Roloff, who worked with Capitol Land at the time and is now with Washington U., said Hariri had reportedly been displeased with his agents' expenditures on the site and "concluded it was too large a development to be feasible in St. Louis County," when he pulled out of the project.



Roloff said that about 60 percent of the site remains undeveloped, with much of that property leased to private developers who have not yet built.



Source

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PostJul 14, 2006#2

I saw in the Business Journal that a group announced a $150 million development with condos and shops for the remaining 3 acres next to the Ritz in Clayton. There will be a high rise and two low rise buildings.

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PostJul 15, 2006#3

Ah, the "Clayton Hole". That brings back memories!



So is this $150 million development new, or is this the plan that was proposed and dropped last year?

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PostJul 17, 2006#4

This is great. Another massive TOD.



What appears to be a good thing as well is the selected architect, DeStefano & Partners, which has designed some of Chicago's modern lakefront residential high-rises. Hopefully, they'll steer Clayton from a traditional look. On a side note, I hope HOK's Centene design does the same.





St. Louis Business Journal: $150 million development to fill Clayton hole

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PostJul 17, 2006#5

"One high rise and two low rise" I wonder how tall they will be going.... 8 stories like the crescent or 30 like the plaza? any thoughts,

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PostJul 17, 2006#6

8 stories or 30 stories doesn't matter to me. Transit oriented is the important thing. Everytime a development is oriented around a Metrolink station, the entire system becomes more valuable to the metro area. This strengthens the Metro system, gives all the more reason to develop around other stations and extend the system to more places.



And it will be really nice to fill the hole.

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PostJul 17, 2006#7

Expat wrote:8 stories or 30 stories doesn't matter to me. Transit oriented is the important thing. Everytime a development is oriented around a Metrolink station, the entire system becomes more valuable to the metro area. This strengthens the Metro system, gives all the more reason to develop around other stations and extend the system to more places.



And it will be really nice to fill the hole.


^excellent point!

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PostJul 17, 2006#8

Expat wrote:8 stories or 30 stories doesn't matter to me. Transit oriented is the important thing. Everytime a development is oriented around a Metrolink station, the entire system becomes more valuable to the metro area. This strengthens the Metro system, gives all the more reason to develop around other stations and extend the system to more places.



And it will be really nice to fill the hole.


I just find it hilarious that any developer would still use the term "transit-oriented development". Umm, what does that mean exactly? Are they going to have fewer parking spaces than any other mixed-use development in Clayton? Doubt it. Okay, so you are building a high-density development on a piece of land next to a mass-transit station, and you are going to market it to people that would like to take said mass-transit to work/play. Sounds more like common sense to me...

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PostOct 06, 2006#9

Project moving forward:


After almost two decades as a vacant lot, the south side of the 7400 block of Forsyth Boulevard is on the way to becoming a $150 million development with 300 condominiums and lofts, with offices and shops.



The Clayton Plan Commission and University City Plan Commission have given their OK to the project, which is called Clayton City Condominiums and is east of the Ritz-Carlton Hotel at the east end of the city's business district. The plan now goes to the University City Council and to Clayton aldermen later this month for approval.



...continued



Orchard would like to start building in the second half of 2007. Three buildings are planned:



A 26-story tower east of the Ritz-Carlton garage, with about 180 condominiums and two floors of offices and amenities.



A six-story "terrace" building, along Forsyth, with about 30 condominiums and retail on the ground floor.



A six-story "loft" building, next to Forest Park Parkway, with about 80 loft-style condominiums, with some ground floor retail.



Public art and outdoor sidewalk dining would be part of the project.





...continued



One Clayton Plan Commission member, Mark Zorensky, voted against approving the project Tuesday, mainly because of the height of the tower building. "I think it's way too tall for this area," he said.


http://www.stltoday.com/stltoday/news/s ... enDocument

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PostOct 06, 2006#10

"One Clayton Plan Commission member, Mark Zorensky, voted against approving the project Tuesday, mainly because of the height of the tower building. "I think it's way too tall for this area," he said. "



Too tall for the area???



"As approved by the plan commissions, the high-rise would be 26 stories, or eight stories taller than the Ritz-Carlton Hotel and four stories shorter than Plaza residences."



This is great.. I love the TOD and street leve retail..that strip of clayton is a dead spot...

I'm happy to see it approved and hope it comes to fruition...

with this, the plaza, maryland walk, the new centene towers, and the newer towers by straubs, the clayton skyline is really taking shape...

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PostOct 06, 2006#11

I didn't read any details on parking in the P-D article. Since the units will be expensive, I can't imagine the residents giving up their cars completely, though hopefully most will make fewer trips by car with such rapid transit just outside their door. Adding affordable housing with variable rents and sizes into the mix could have easily attracted some one-car households, if not some zero-car households. As expensive as these units will be, only old-money singles, rich widows and the inseparable empty-nester couple may have less than two cars.



Despite the missed opportunity in residential (I didn't expect much from no-new-rentals Clayton), I would hope that the retail and office uses could at least get by with less parking than usually required. After all, why else would a commercial tenant pay more to be close to MetroLink if workers and patrons aren't even anticipated to arrive via foot and transit? Plus, the developer can save costs in building less parking, without the commercial owner having to compensate in lower rents to attract tenants.

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PostOct 06, 2006#12

^ I actualy think that plan sounds kind of odd. Isn't Clayton running out of good places for new office buildings? Isn't the city using ED to take viable businesses to build new Centene office towers? I know Clayton is desperate for new resiential development in the core to help jumpstart those dead streets, but it seems like a waste with the 26 story resiential tower and only two other 6 story buildings.

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PostOct 06, 2006#13

^TOD principles are that dense residential is good near stations, but ultimately dense commercial is better, with mixed uses needing destination-retail or high-foot-traffic site services. Those who park in an attached garage at home and fear having to walk 100 feet from a parking spot to Wal-Mart's door might think that people walk further to destinations than from origins. However, in principled TOD planning, putting the commercial (storefronts/office, not big box) near the stations allows residents to walk by it on their way to the station. Plus, from an urban economics point of view, the larger your draw, the more you'll pay for transportation proximity, so commercial tenants outbid residential for proximity to a rapid transit station.

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PostOct 06, 2006#14

^ That all makes plenty of sense, however it doesn't make me feel any better that the big hole is seeing the highest and best use of the land.

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PostOct 06, 2006#15

What has not been mentioned is how many surface lots still exist, which are fewer since the 1990s buiding boom.



The TOD that is happening is very positive and Clayton's dedication to pedestrian access helps.



Keep in mind, do you want a person moving to condo in Clayton adjacent to Metrolink or moving to the Summit Lofts condos in Creve Coeur or a similar development soon to be built in Chesterfield without Metrolink access and every use of the car?



Keep prospering Clayton, University City, and may Brentwood, Maplewood, and Shrewberry join you with similar developments that would typically go to outer-ring suburban communities.

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PostOct 07, 2006#16

bpe235 wrote:One Clayton Plan Commission member, Mark Zorensky, voted against approving the project Tuesday,


Correct me if I'm wrong, but isn't the Zorensky family big in real estate? Didn't they originally develop the Gallaria? Could there be a conflict of interest here?

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PostOct 07, 2006#17

You are correct. Hycel Properties. I think the conflict of interest here though is the Zorensky family home not too far away. This project might block their view of sunsets...

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PostOct 09, 2006#18

Let's hope Zorensky is the only one that feels that way about the height. Seems like 26 stories will fit in nicely. Guess it's a done deal anyhow.

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PostOct 25, 2006#19

DeStefano & Partners would be nice, but I did not read anything about them doing the design.

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PostDec 06, 2006#20

Here is the link to the new Clayton City Views... there is a rendering if someone would please post it.



http://www.ci.clayton.mo.us/FileSystem/ ... scrptn.pdf



-What do you urban planners think?

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PostDec 06, 2006#21

Well, I'm no urban planner, but I give it a preliminary thumb's up. If that's Forsythe on the left of the rendering, then that 6-story round glass structure should be pretty cool. A very eye-catching entrance "statement". And I like the way the structure follows the curve of Forsythe.

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PostDec 06, 2006#22

^ I like this design, looks very nice IMO! I approve it!!!:)

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PostDec 06, 2006#23

AHHHH it's CORTEX meets Maryland Walk!!!! :shock:



OK - it's fine. It'll fit will in Clayton and being next to the Ritz you've got to figure it will look something like this. Here's the Google map of the area (I'm guessing it boards Ritz Drive, FPP, Forsyth. The parking parking garage in the center can be seen in the rendering (above-PDF link)):

http://maps.google.com/maps?q=Saint+Lou ... 8&t=h&om=1



And HOORAY for TOD!! (though I don't know if I believe many in this building will forgoe an automobile).

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PostDec 06, 2006#24

I like the design but why is it that these new developments feel the need to look like the others around it? For example, Maryland Walk has the red brick/blue glass and it looks just like the other office buildings. The same thing applies to this building...it looks more an extension of the Plaza in Clayton and The Crescent rather than it's own development.



Oh yeah, the Park East Tower is the same. Tan exterior that matches the BJC hospital.



It's getting on my nerves. Maybe I am just being picky.

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PostDec 06, 2006#25

It doesn't seem vary pedestrian friendly. It reminds me of a large suburban elderly home.

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