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PostApr 18, 2009#351

^^^ I think your right Grover. A lot of these developments depend on each other.



I'm sure we can speculate for months or even years until a final decision is made, but I think St. Louis is far better than any other nearby candidates for establishing a centralized hub.



*Central location on some of the largest rivers in the country.

*2 underutilized airports, one with a shiny new runway

*Excellent interstate rail and highway system

*Low Cost of Living, with most if not all the cultural amenities that can be found and much larger markets



Also I think about the current developments going on and a lot point to some big economic activity in the St. Louis area in the not so distant future (Some that I believe are directly linked to trying to lure the Chinese in)



*The new runway at Lambert and overall plan upgrades to the airport

*The new Mississippi River bridge

*Push for high speed rail to Chicago

*Paul McKee (who is also involved in the Cargo Hub negotiations) buying up property left and right with no real details of what Blairmont is.

*The development of the Biobelt (Cortex, Monsanto, etc.)



It may just be meaningless speculation on my behalf, but every time I hear a new development I get a since that we are getting closer and closer to the development of a cargo hub at Lambert.

PostMay 01, 2009#352

Chinese Investors Coming To Look Around



link: http://www.stltoday.com/stltoday/busine ... enDocument



If we can land this hub, St. Louis would be changed forever!

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PostMay 02, 2009#353

Point being, the Chinese delegation is coming to Saint Louis to continue discussions of basing a logistics air hub at Lambert International and contingently MidAmerica Airport. It is not actively pursuing other cities for such a hub, at least with any named competition between cities to vie for a hub.

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PostMay 03, 2009#354

Read last post above.



This is a St. Louis/Missouri / China innitiative and ongoing plan. I hear that it will most likely pass with the rebound of the economy and maybe as soon as this summer... that being based on talks I have watched, attended and read.



Back to any news on the St. Louis/Air China China Hub.



Like this: In the news MAY 1, 2009



Friday, May 1, 2009

Chinese, St. Louis leaders to further trade efforts

St. Louis Business Journal - by Kelsey Volkmann




Chinese and St. Louis business leaders plan to meet Sunday and Monday to further efforts to make the region a hub for trade with China.



About 70 Chinese business leaders, led by Madam Zhang Yingxin, the deputy director of the Chinese Investment Promotion Agency, will visit St. Louis to meet with Gov. Jay Nixon, Lt. Gov. Peter Kinder, Attorney General Chris Koster, House Speaker Ron Richard, U.S. Congressman Russ Carnahan, Sen. Eric Schmitt, Rep. Jerry Nolte, St. Louis Mayor Francis Slay, St. Louis County Executive Charlie Dooley, St. Charles County Executive Steve Ehlmann and Midwest China Hub Commission Chairman Mike Jones.



The commission is aimed at bringing Chinese air freight to Lambert-St. Louis International Airport and MidAmerica St. Louis Airport. Officials also hope Chinese companies will set up their U.S. headquarters in the region.



“This is a furtherance of the discussion of investment potential for China and the creation of the China cargo hub,” said Denny Coleman, president and CEO of the St. Louis County Economic Council.



The visit follows earlier trips of Chinese delegates to St. Louis and local leaders to China.



READ ENTIRE ARTICLE:http://www.bizjournals.com/stlouis/stor ... ily77.html

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PostMay 03, 2009#355

^ Thanks for the cleanup and refocus to this thread.



Q: You mention that it’s feasible for a deal to be made by this summer; could you expand on this? While I have quietly thought this, especially amidst the needs to jumpstart both our countries’ economies imminently, I haven’t heard anything regarding an actual timeline.

I do recognize that these negotiations have definitely been fast-tracked by both sides, and I am so thankful to the domestic leaders’ quiet progressions versus a “Mission Accomplished”-esque premature celebration.



Meanwhile, the delegation of 70 Chinese representatives to the area is very significant for its size. I bet that this group includes both government officials, for both diplomatic negotiations & feasibility studies, and private sector business leaders at the executive level seeking active investment in the Metro Area. I bet officials from various Federal agencies are also involved at high levels here in town this weekend as a part of this.



They didn’t travel 8,000 miles for a baseball game, that’s for sure.

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PostMay 03, 2009#356

Is it wrong to feel optimistic?

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PostMay 03, 2009#357

^ Sometimes I wonder

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PostMay 04, 2009#358

Nice coverage tonight on Fox. Maybe I haven't stayed up with the thread enough, I didn't realize Wash DC was also a competitor.

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PostMay 04, 2009#359

^^^ What does Washington DC have to do with a Midwest air cargo hub?

I believe St. Louis is trying to be the main point of entry for middle America, not middle Atlantic. Are they trying to land a cargo hub for that region? What did I miss?

PostMay 04, 2009#360

Nevermind



http://www.fox2now.com/ktvi-stlouis-chi ... 4411.story



Isn't there already a bunch of major cargo hubs on the east coast? Hopefully St. Louis can land this.....Chicago is already overcapacity! Let us have a bite at something for a change.

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PostMay 04, 2009#361

http://www.fox2now.com/ktvi-stlouis-chi ... 4411.story



Front page headliner of Fox's website. Awesome! I love the mainstream attention on this and glad the news is covering such an optimistic story.



(Also, if this goes through, I would buy Express Scripts stock)

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PostMay 04, 2009#362

The delegation is also considering Washington, DC and Chicago as headquarters.


Isn't Chicago overloaded?



And D.C. is nowhere near the Midwest.



I hope we get this hub, but D.C. could certainly get support from the Federal government. Still, I don't see what it has to do with the Midwest. And Chicago may not have the room.

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PostMay 04, 2009#363

STLCardsBlues1989 wrote:


Isn't Chicago overloaded?


Maybe Chicago is hoping to use its proposed 3rd airport in Peotone as a fresh new airport specifically designed for use as a cargo hub? They also have Chicago-Gary & Chicago-Rockford as far-flung relievers to help free up a tiny space at MDW & ORD. Also, maybe they are also pressing on the ORD modernization program which is currently underway.

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PostMay 04, 2009#364

hmm...first I'm hearing of Chicago and D.C. , I guess its game on. I haven't been able to find any news involving either city and a potential cargo hub. Haven't found it in this thread either, surely somebody here would've caught wind of something. Strange.

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PostMay 04, 2009#365

I think the DC and Chicago comment is in reference to setting up US headquarters, not the trade component.

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PostMay 04, 2009#366

MattnSTL wrote:I think the DC and Chicago comment is in reference to setting up US headquarters, not the trade component.


hmm...if that's the case who has the edge there? Chicago builds a tower every year it seems.

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PostMay 04, 2009#367

Dick Fleming was on 550 during lunch today and when asked just how big this deal was, he responded, "Well, the North Park project is just one piece of this deal, and esimates for that are for over 10,000 new jobs." or something along those lines.

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PostMay 04, 2009#368

For a headquarters of a company, I see a lot of positives for picking St. Louis. There's room for a tower in the Downtown area (especially Downtown West I think). Land is probably cheaper than in Chicago or D.C. Land in North St. Louis to build warehouses and distribution centers (if need be). And fairly cheap housing for employees (compared to Chicago). St. Louis taxes are probably lower as well. And if they want to renovate buildings, we have historic tax credits (hopefully they will not be capped) and Illinois doesn't (though they're working on it). I don't know why they threw D.C. and Chicago in there. We certainly don't have this in the bag, but it sounds like St. Louis is the front runner here.

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PostMay 04, 2009#369

St. Louis business journal in a previous week had a downtown update for one of their front page articles (Sorry, can't remember which week in April). They stated toward the end of the article that the city was a finalist in a hq relocating, bringing 400 jobs with it. Just pure speculation, but would these two tie together?



Nice comments from Gov. Nixon. Now, what about Missouri Finance Board's vote on Ball Park Village, Historic tax credits. and Jobs Development Act. We will need to come to the plate with Class A office space and tax credits!!!

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PostMay 05, 2009#370

The Chicago & DC remarks were at the tail end of the Fox link.



Actually, I’m glad to hear that Chicago and DC are in the mix as well. When you consider the competitive advantages of both those cities to Saint Louis for what the Chinese are seeking in a cargo hub, it speaks well to our capabilities. Chicago’s airfields are both very heavily congested; I don’t even know if Midway could handle large cargo planes on their runways. Meanwhile, DC is great for East Coast (potentially), but it doesn’t address their Midwest needs, let alone land acquisition costs. Also, it shows that the Chinese delegations are conducting their own extensive diligence, of which Saint Louis offers a much more competitive product for logistics. Meanwhile, I could realistically see multiple & simultaneous US sites for such a deal; they have the manufacturing capacity.



For US headquarters, yes, I do expect Chinese firms to establish their bases of operations around the country, if for no other reason than there are so damn many companies running in China right now that no one metro area could hold all of them, not even NYC. Of course, I’d love to see Chinese firms establishing a major presence in StL for headquarters, with new skyscrapers jumping up all around Downtown, but I won’t lose much sleep if they like Chicago’s skyline more than ours. I do myself. Chicago’s proximity also could speak to their dedication to the Midwest in general; better there than if they were considering Philadelphia and DC. I’m also sure that there’s lots of open Class A space in Chicago right now just waiting for occupants, whereas a major influx of tenants would rapidly expire our immediate supplies. Who knows; maybe some companies would set up temp spots in Chicago and seek new construction here for long-term occupancy. After all, this whole thread is based upon reasonable speculation.



I’m also glad to hear that it’s Chicago and DC in the mix, as opposed to Indianapolis and Memphis.



What makes me most interested is the relative “blank slate” that StL can be for China for HQ & logistics establishments. We have a larger swath of land for them to develop, including area around Lambert for development, open sites in Downtown for new construction, and so much open land along 255 and 370 for warehousing and manufacturing. Here, they’d have a lot of sway in establishing themselves. Plus, as well as being committed in state & local leadership, StL interests were the ones who first broached the idea to the Chinese of establishing such a hub, and that initial relationship has clearly gone a long way and is sure to continue throughout all of this. These relationships, I believe, are at the heart of everything involved in these negotiations.



You know, setting up a series of towers could actually be seen as a consolidation of economic power in the US, with StL as the focal point, and be utilized for perceptions of de facto economic hegemony within the US markets. Not that it would be a complete truism or necessarily a bad thing, but a fascinating concept in ideas of theoretical diplomacy.



I remain cautiously optimistic of a deal being made in the relative near future.

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PostMay 05, 2009#371

MDW has capacity for another ~600 or so flights per day, maximum, though the cluster... at O'Hare makes things worse.



MDW does not have the runway length for widebodies, as it is surrounded by roads and buildings which do not provide enough clearance. You won't see cargo into and out of MDW from China.



ORD has the capacity for more cargo flights at night, but has voluntary noise abatement in place so I doubt they could handle the volume this requires.



RFD can handle widebodies. I don't see them getting it, though, as it's in the middle of nowhere.



GYY can handle widebodies too, but seriously, it's Gary. One look there and the Chinese delegation will puke. Well, maybe they'll feel at home, who knows.



IAD is the biggest worry - it's big, in the middle of nowhere, and there is some clout in the area.

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PostMay 05, 2009#372

Not surprised Chicago is involved. China is turning Guangzhou into a monster air cargo hub. Guess who are sister cities? Not to mention huge Chinese shipping company COSCO and American leader Atlas/Polar Air already have US-Sino operations there. On the negative side, traffic congestion and winter weather are real operational issues (Louisville and Memphis were largely chosen as freight hubs due to lack of snow/ice and relatively uncongested highways within a central location).



Chicago could probably also do a better job of filling planes for return flights to China (likely our biggest problem). The US-Sino trade imbalance should tell you how hard it is to fill the planes for return trips (in fact the cost of shipping there is less than half the cost of shipping here). The Chinese are shipping tons of wine from all over the globe... maybe they will like Missouri wines? Bio and Pharma are also possibilities.



DC makes sense only from the standpoint of large market accessibility for inbound and outbound products. The extra fuel/operational costs would be huge, though. Seems like a location such as Columbus or Cincy would be better if the East Coast is in their sights.



Sounds to me as if the Chinese are simply creating leverage to strike a better deal with St. Louis. Operationally, we offer the best location. Another wild card in our favor is the development of the "NAFTA Highway" and "contained customs" hub near Kansas City. This huge development is much further along than ours, and will link ground cargo from Mexico thru Canada. Those truck lanes MODOT is proposing for I-70 would fit right into this scenario.



One last note... if this comes to pass, it will not only be Chinese companies operating. The four major US air-cargo companies recently recieved virtually unlimited access to China.

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PostMay 05, 2009#373

We are talking about 400 flights a day, eventually. I just don't see this happen at O'Hare (ORD). Even with the expansion plans underway it will be very hard for them to accomodate this much traffic. Let alone find space needed for all the warehousing, hangars, etc.



Midway (MDW) is not a factor, since it can't and will never be able to handle anything bigger than about a 737-sized airplane. The runways are too short and there is no room for expansion.



Dulles (IAD) does have much room for growth AND they're about to open a new runway. However, it doesn't make sense as a MIDWEST cargo hub.



STL has virtually unlimited room for growth. Remember, in 2000 STL handled over 30 million passengers (compared to 14 million in 2008) and this without the new runway. It has the capacity in place, it has the land around it and it is in the logistically most strategic location. I think Marc Buxton is right. The key question is: How do we fill the empty airplanes to China?

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PostMay 05, 2009#374

Wait a minute, wait a minute.

Where are we getting that DC and Chicago are in the mix for the cargo hub? I've been following this pretty closely for a year, and never heard either of those cities mentioned as serious competition. When the Chinese ambassador was here a few months back he said St. Louis was basically the only city they're looking at for this, b/c St. Louis came to them with the idea.

The trade delegation that was in town this weekend had also visited Chicago and Washington (and apparently Milwaukee), which makes sense when you consider that they were here to study U.S. investment opportunities generally, and not just the cargo hub.

Those cities are certainly in the mix for Chinese investors, but it doesn't seem like they are for the cargo, certainly not DC. The TV report may have conflated the two ideas.



Also, Post-Dispatch coverage here...



http://www.stltoday.com/stltoday/busine ... enDocument

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PostMay 05, 2009#375

The TV report unintentionally conflicted the two items by not clearly saying the investment group was looking at other cities, but not looking at other cities for the trade hub.

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