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PostMay 02, 2011#1051

^ If I was Illinois...

- Focus on Mid America as a hub for transcontinental refueling and logistics. While Lambert gains the momentum on initial flights between the US and China, Mascoutah begins proactively positioning themselves as the go-between for Shanghai flights heading down to Sao Paulo. Maybe even get that flowering transport going again, selling fresh tropical orchids in Beijing; imagine that. Upon the (anticipated) success of the Lambert operations, I'd begin an incentive program for private investors to create such a transcontinental hub, very similar to the MO Aerotropolis Bill. Hard part will be getting Springfield to invest south of Chicago.

- If the Martin Airpark is actually viable, the Downtown Saint Louis Airport could really become a hub for international executive jet flights. Again, it would most likely take an incentivation program from the IL state government to get this going, at a scaled-down version (i.e. no Bentleys). First off, by having a few major clients who plan to do business there in the manner described.

What both these airports do have in common is the immediate opportunity to expand their capacities into adjacent green land. I'd think the "aerotropolis" model (as an academic concept) could really, really excel in a multiple airport environment, each with a different focus for total air service needs.
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PostMay 03, 2011#1052

Stl Beacon article updated, tax credit passes in State Senate. Back to the House


http://www.stlbeacon.org/issues-politic ... -china-hub

By Jo Mannies, Beacon political reporter, and Jason Rosenbaum

Updated 5:29 pm Mon., 5.2.11

St. Louis area political and civic leaders, Republican and Democrat, are ecstatic that the Missouri General Assembly appears on the verge of approving $360 million in state tax credits to help Lambert St. Louis International Airport become a cargo hub for goods coming from and going to the People's Republic of China.

Today, the state Senate voted 32-2 in favor of the measure. It now goes to the state House.
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PostMay 03, 2011#1053

dredger wrote:Stl Beacon article updated, tax credit passes in State Senate. Back to the House


http://www.stlbeacon.org/issues-politic ... -china-hub

By Jo Mannies, Beacon political reporter, and Jason Rosenbaum

Updated 5:29 pm Mon., 5.2.11

St. Louis area political and civic leaders, Republican and Democrat, are ecstatic that the Missouri General Assembly appears on the verge of approving $360 million in state tax credits to help Lambert St. Louis International Airport become a cargo hub for goods coming from and going to the People's Republic of China.

Today, the state Senate voted 32-2 in favor of the measure. It now goes to the state House.
The Post's version of the story...for those interested....
http://www.stltoday.com/business/local/ ... 7529f.html
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PostMay 03, 2011#1054

Great, hopefully this goes through quickly and work can get started.

If passed, does anyone know how quickly this might take affect on the Cargo Hub? What happens after this? Is it just hoping for the best?
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PostMay 03, 2011#1055

pat wrote:Great, hopefully this goes through quickly and work can get started.

If passed, does anyone know how quickly this might take affect on the Cargo Hub? What happens after this? Is it just hoping for the best?
I would think that, upon passage of the tax credits bill, the Midwest China Hub Commission would re-engage negotiations with China Cargo Airlines (and parent China Eastern Airlines). With a confirmed new playing field, it is reasonable to anticipate their negotiations concluding with initial flight planning. Exactly when the first flights are made, I don't know, but I'd assume they'll be underway this summer. I'd expect much pomp and circumstance around it all.

As for construction, it's anyone's guess when developers will start working to build. But, I'd bet there are a few companies that have been looking at various spots around the airport & StL area for some time. This includes giant refridgerator warehouses and who knows what else, perhaps even some regional warehousing and manufacturing. Again, this would probably come after an initial agreement is made between China Cargo and the Hub Commission & its partners. Generally, I expect it all to take off quickly, a matter of months.
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PostMay 03, 2011#1056

^Thanks.

I hope you're right.
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PostMay 03, 2011#1057

The aerotropolis tax credits are not Lambert-specific, right? Are there any thoughts on how this could affect KC or some of the smaller airports around town? For instance, Flight Express runs a small operation out of the downtown airport, but would the new tax credits create an incentive to move to Spirit of St. Louis?
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PostMay 04, 2011#1058

^I thought that they were ear-marked specifically for a 50 mile radius around Lambert. Anyone know for sure?
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PostMay 04, 2011#1059

Guys, this bill is Lambert-specific.
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PostMay 04, 2011#1060

Chinese delegation is returning may 23rd to finalize the deal. If signed, cargo flights to begin this summer.

Remember, this is not just a chinese hub. Lambert and Stl officials are also in talks with 2 major south American airlines and authorities in south Africa.

This is getting exciting!


We should have a nextstl party to watch the first cargo plane land....

PostMay 04, 2011#1061

bonwich wrote:Quick addendum: I can find all of one article about this supposed FedEx snub, and it's from an analysis about two years ago of the China hub project. And it doesn't even mention FedEx -- it refers to the air freight boom of the '80s and TWA's dominance at Lambert, but merely said that "carriers" ended up looking elsewhere. Gotta try a bigger database (more than just P-D) later this week.
this article discusses the snub of FedEx in order to protect TWA.

http://m.commercialappeal.com/news/2011 ... d-airport/
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PostMay 05, 2011#1062

That's a very intersting article and kind of brings up a warning. We may be talking to Chinese, Latin American, and South African airlines, but how many could have a hub in St. Louis? We snubbed FedEx to protect TWA. O'Hare snubs others to protect United and American. If we give our airport to a state-run Chinese airline, we can expect all losses to be bailed out and heavy investments to be made, but perhaps we can also expect them to take over the airport and make a lot of decisions for us. Maybe they won't want to share with Latin American carriers.

The warning about express service is interesting, but I'm not entirely sure it applies. Isn't a lot of express service only over a short distance? FedEx in Memphis is mostly domestic. FedEx in China is similar. We've got our eyes set a bit further, and probably with a lot of refridgeration. Kasarda knows what he's talking about. He is Mr. Aerotropolis, but I don't know how closely he has followed the issue.
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PostMay 05, 2011#1063

moorlander wrote:Chinese delegation is returning may 23rd to finalize the deal. If signed, cargo flights to begin this summer.

Remember, this is not just a chinese hub. Lambert and Stl officials are also in talks with 2 major south American airlines and authorities in south Africa.

This is getting exciting!


We should have a nextstl party to watch the first cargo plane land....
Interesting insight on the date and other info, Do you have source where it came from? Curious to read more if you can point in the direction.

I believe this might be an opportunity for Southwest airlines as a way for the biggest domestic carrier to expand their own cargo services as Delta, AA, United/Continental all have foriegn flights or code share to move things in out of the states.

On the other note, I think your cargo flight party might qualify for a pre season tail gate party in Lambert's cell lot. Just remember to invite a couple of TSA guys so they don't get all work up and go out of their way to take away beverages.
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PostMay 05, 2011#1064

dredger wrote:
moorlander wrote:Chinese delegation is returning may 23rd to finalize the deal. If signed, cargo flights to begin this summer.

Remember, this is not just a chinese hub. Lambert and Stl officials are also in talks with 2 major south American airlines and authorities in south Africa.

This is getting exciting!


We should have a nextstl party to watch the first cargo plane land....
Interesting insight on the date and other info, Do you have source where it came from? Curious to read more if you can point in the direction.

I believe this might be an opportunity for Southwest airlines as a way for the biggest domestic carrier to expand their own cargo services as Delta, AA, United/Continental all have foriegn flights or code share to move things in out of the states.

On the other note, I think your cargo flight party might qualify for a pre season tail gate party in Lambert's cell lot. Just remember to invite a couple of TSA guys so they don't get all work up and go out of their way to take away beverages.
It was reported here
Lambert could be named Chinese hub this month
http://www.ksdk.com/news/article/257663 ... this-month

This is all very exciting.

PostMay 05, 2011#1065

DaronDierkes wrote:That's a very intersting article and kind of brings up a warning. We may be talking to Chinese, Latin American, and South African airlines, but how many could have a hub in St. Louis? We snubbed FedEx to protect TWA. O'Hare snubs others to protect United and American. If we give our airport to a state-run Chinese airline, we can expect all losses to be bailed out and heavy investments to be made, but perhaps we can also expect them to take over the airport and make a lot of decisions for us. Maybe they won't want to share with Latin American carriers.
That probably is a possibility, but I think they can work it out. Does China have a lot of issues with South America that we know of? I understand Nixon canceling the trip to Taiwan a few months ago. I'm not sure which other countries are an issue with them, though.

There are a few other airports in the metro area, though they are smaller. I do wonder if expansion is possible in the future, either at Lambert or to the area airports. If the Chinese have worked this hard to get this done then I don't think they'll let anything less than a major issue get in the way. I'm sure they probably know that the airport is courting airlines from other countries. It's even been whispered on here for months, so surely the Chinese know more about it than we do. If dealing with South America means more profit for all involved then I think China could deal with it and work it out.
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PostMay 05, 2011#1066

I can't imagine China having a problem with South America as long as they're making money. I don't think the Chinese would see South American airlines as competitors, but rather another business opportunity. China is not going to be able to fly into South America to import/export goods. Its too far, and I think South Americans would rather have a piece of that action. So, the best option is to meet in the middle, Saint Louis.
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PostMay 05, 2011#1067

There aren't any major diplomatic tensions between the Chinese and South American countries. A few trade disputes here and there, but South American countries, particularly Brazil and Argentina, engage in a lot of trade with China. In fact, China is Brazil's biggest trading partner (#2 for Argentina).
Taiwan is another issue. Relations have improved in recent years, but the Chinese leadership still considers Taiwan part of China, and the Taiwanese think of Taiwan as an independent nation. Thus, tensions. Shouldn't be relevant to our project, though.
My favorite institute is at it again: http://stlouis.cbslocal.com/2011/05/05/ ... nder-fire/
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PostMay 07, 2011#1068

KWMU, NPR in St. Louis, posted comments from Gov Nixon. Hopefully the tax credit bills that need to be reconciled will be a priority next week before state house closes shop.

http://news.stlpublicradio.org/post/nix ... rotropolis

Nixon confident on Aerotropolis
By Rachel Lippmann
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PostMay 07, 2011#1069

Pan Am coming back from the dead to help bring Latin America into the equation:
http://www.brownsvilleherald.com/news/p ... ville.html
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PostMay 08, 2011#1070

Colby wrote:Pan Am coming back from the dead to help bring Latin America into the equation:
http://www.brownsvilleherald.com/news/p ... ville.html
The comments are interesting. Apparently the citizens are not happy about it. Hopefully that doesn't put a snag in the plans. He did say that he is not tied to Brownsville.

One commenter who is against the deal apparently is named Charlie Atkinson. Another commenter said
Charlie.....You the Mayor and the rest of the City Council are the ones who needs to be held accountable.......by the voters.
Why is the mayor making statements on a newspaper article like this? Aren't politicians usually more guarded than that? It's weird.

I do wonder if any of these people know anything about the China Hub Deal, as one comment states
STEVE, YOU FIRST NEED TO HAVE THE PLANES. WISHFUL THINKING.
The mayor doesn't seem all that informed about the St. Louis side of the deal, either.
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PostMay 08, 2011#1071

Nice catch. Even better than Hendrick seems focused on St. Louis, whether the link be in Brownsville or not.
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PostMay 08, 2011#1072

The article says he has pretty much already secured the $75 million he plans to invest (fifty mil in stl, twenty five mil in Brownsville). There several interesting quotes out there, but I'm not sure of their current route map,

http://www.mysanantonio.com/business/lo ... 810683.php
Pan American's President Robert Hedrick said officials are excited about the company's opportunity to promote Brownsville as a third Gateway to Latin America that can move cargo out of and into the U.S. more quickly and for less money.

His firm plans to start as a cargo-only air carrier with as many as 70 flights a month from Brownsville to various Latin American destinations beginning in the first quarter of next year.


http://panamericanairways.net/
In 2011, Pan American Airways will fly 70 cargo flights a month from Brownsville, Texas to destinations in Latin America with the final destination being Rio de Janeiro. These flights are "cargo only" designed for the large cargo shipper.
Interesting video,
http://www.kveo.com/news/pan-american-r ... rownsville
There will be two 727's and one 747 available to ship cargo to five different routes in Latin America including Panama, Ecuador, and Columbia. All the flights will end up in Rio
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PostMay 08, 2011#1073

He really needs to take the steps to get PanAm.com back. Any major company with a dot net address is questionable. But I am excited about this, hopefully he just says goodbye to Brownsville and centers operations here. That would make my day.
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PostMay 08, 2011#1074

Seems like a waste for cargo planes to stop in TX on their way to South America.

Off topic, but I've flown on Pan-Am a number of times to the Bahamas in recent years. Pretty cool experience riding on thier "air bridge" aircraft.
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PostMay 09, 2011#1075

^ It'd be nice to get a glance at the MOU with Lambert. I agree that it doesn't seem necessary for planes to stop in TX.
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