urbanSTL

Downtown should be a loft area? Downtown residents desire the area to be vibrant with strong residential, jobs, restaurants, entertainment services, parks, etc. There are actually tons of affordable housing choices downtown, to include apartments and condos. I think you may be projecting and want downtown to be only a low-income housing area. Especially since you're actively working to scare people away from downtown. You say that the owners of Plaza Square should be ashamed? Well, you should be ashamed of yourself, sir, for spreading FUD.



From your last letter, the tenants of Plaza Square showed up to a meeting to protest the approval of homeless service centers? It seems quite sad to me that you are against both those that live in lofts and the homeless. That's class-warfare, man. In the words of the great Stephanie Tanner of Full House fame, "How rude!"

Downtown does and should continue to have GOOD affordable housing options. Plaza Square's owners have not offered the "good" part for some time. They should be put out of business by tenants voting with their feet to find other affordable apartments that do not have rat infestation, malfunctioning elevators, etc.

This has just gotten weird.

^Yeah, but it's strangely interesting. Like watching a car wreck.

Grover wrote:This has just gotten weird.

I've been registered on this forum for almost two years, and a moderator for a few months. I haven't seen a week on this forum quite as strange as this one has been.

Yeah, but it's strangely interesting. Like watching a car wreck.

As long as things don't get too far out of control, I can't argue with that.

I'll concur with the craziest week, and I've been here since the start.

to me, the strange part is, whenever i post something my words are miss understood or just used by others to make what they want to be right.. innov.. i am some what dissapoiinted . but then again it may be my fault, the question i meant was, if all of down town was lofts do you think downtown would have less cime? or do you think that having loft resedent will stop or at least decrease the number of crimes in down town? now the part of me scarying people away. i am not trying to do such a thing, i am only posting the trueth about what goes on dowtown, by the way can i ask how the other afforbal housing downtown for me came about? if anyone rembers or cares i said that many here have lived here for a long time and dont want to move and some of them can not afford a loft. ther are lot of people here that dont have a computer and can not say any thing here or anywhere on the web/blogs, so i was asked to put what they feel here and else where, between my job, chairety work ,now trying to help those that can not help but be a victome (i spelled that wrong, sorry) of of developers that only want to make money and all those in that way ,,, oh well, so what. sorry but huma life is worth more than pennies in your pocket. now as for the centary church issue,you said it was sad. well we knew then and know is true, on the days of tuesday, thursday and saterday, there is more 911 calls about panhandlers, assualt..etc. inno.. i have those reports, us said i am trying to scare everyone from moving to downtown, i am sorry but all i am doing is letting all know the truth. by the way you (or anyone else) has not responded about slay getting re allected. . of those that have moved out 97% have not chaned there voting address so they can vote against slay.

umm, the local library has computers connected to the interweb. they can be used without cost, which seems to be affordable for most people even when taking inflation into account.



and humor me, if you were mayor -- what would you do? tell us your grand plan. we want to know.



i'm not so sure about any misunderstanding. you admitted the fear of gentrification. and if there was any misunderstanding, it's complicated by the difficulty we have in reading your posts. you could be typing british for all we know. surely there must be someone who can better represent your ideas?

ThreeOneFour wrote:

Grover wrote:This has just gotten weird.

I've been registered on this forum for almost two years, and a moderator for a few months. I haven't seen a week on this forum quite as strange as this one has been.

Must be the full moon.

ok

so I took reddragon's post from above and copied and pasted into Word..



Just for fun



and ran the spelling and grammar tool..



I may have lost count, but I counted 70 grammar and spelling mistakes..



Please make an effort.



You can create your posts in Word and run the utility to check your spelling (and grammar).



and then copy it into the posting here.



I also use Mozilla Firefox and it catches spelling mistakes as you are typing.



I am not perfect, and make silly mistakes and then only realize after I posted.



We are trying to understand your points, but it is difficult at times..

innov8ion wrote:is it possible that judgment can be withheld for once? it would be nice to understand the psyche and issues faced by those that live in plaza square. seriously...

I don't think Grover meant this conversation per se. You gotta admit, it's been a strange week on this forum.

ThreeOneFour wrote:

innov8ion wrote:

Grover wrote:This has just gotten weird.

is it possible that judgment can be withheld for once? it would be nice to understand the psyche and issues faced by those that live in plaza square. seriously...

I don't think Grover meant this conversation per se. You gotta admit, it's been a strange week on this forum.

I think the P-D article brought some new members. Plus things have been weird with the regulars.

Now, a general comment for everyone:



Let's please refrain from criticizing the grammar and spelling of other forum participants. I know personal examples of people that communicate well, yet they have difficulty typing for whatever reason. My dad had rheumatoid arthritis, and while he was an excellent communicator, I could barely read his emails at times.



We all make mistakes, but I think nearly everyone on this forum makes an honest effort, so let's try to give others the benefit of the doubt.

as a newcomer to this forum I must admit this is a very well behaved, courteous group. What is considered "weird" on this forum would be extremely good decomrum on other blogs.

Well said ThreeOneFour! The arrogant/pompous attitude is getting old. The spelling criticism could also discourage immigrants from participating in the forum if English is not their first language.

southsidepride wrote:as a newcomer to this forum I must admit this is a very well behaved, courteous group. What is considered "weird" on this forum would be extremely good decomrum on other blogs.

Just go over to stltoday.com forums. That place is a mad house.

ok, again i am being bashed.(that is spelled corect) that is ok. citywatcher, thank you for that information. I use msntv2 to post here so i dont have those tools here. inno.. just so you know i have not been to the library in over 20 years. i do own a computer. one is in the living room and one in my bedroom plus one mor in my bedroom that use for only games,typing letters and writing programs. threeonefour, thank you. i may be new here but i am also new to the blog thing and when I have not cursed or went off on anyone here. I do have a problem, when i start typing I start typing what i whant to say but but i quess I dont hit the right letters. maybe all the caffiene i consume? inno.. you sayed i admitted the fear of gentrifacion. mabe you need to look at the past posts. I never said that. and to humor me, I will you answer the queations i asked you.

reddragon wrote:i am only posting the trueth about what goes on dowtown, by the way can i ask how the other afforbal housing downtown for me came about? if anyone rembers or cares i said that many here have lived here for a long time and dont want to move and some of them can not afford a loft.

The fear of gentrification appears to be implied below in the bolded section above. For some reason, it appears you believe the only housing options downtown are "expensive" lofts. Have you performed diligent research? If so, I think you'd find that there are other low-cost options downtown.



In an earlier post, you mentioned that the people of Plaza Square didn't have a voice because many didn't have computers. I only mentioned the library, because anyone in Plaza Square could have a voice by utilizing the free computers at the library.



I could use some caffeine / breakfast this morning... By the way, how did that meeting on 8/30 go?

innov8ion wrote: By the way, how did that meeting on 8/30 go?

The Meeting



I was only at the meeting for 45 minutes. The owner Shahid Shaikh showed up (as he has the right to as he is a tenant at Plaza Square as well), so the lawyer said that he could only speak in general terms and not specifics. The lawyer advised us to send to him in writing our complaints and backup such as when we called Plaza Square management/office about it. He also asked for any advertisements featuring Plaza Square apartments.



The lawyer advised after the meeting was over, he would give his email address. He also had us put our email addresses on a sheet. I have not received any emails of yet and didn’t get his, so I need to follow up with this.



The lawyer also commended the gentleman who runs the www.myplazasquare.com which I fully agree with - without this site we would be very lost.



People voiced their complaints as there were very valid points (which isn’t anything that hasn’t been discussed before). A very few spoke about things that in my opinion were kinda in left field like how the owner wears nice clothes and drives a nice car and how he was just pocketing all the money rolling in from rents and so on and so forth.



Ginny, a resident who has formed a tenant association asked Shaikh where can be posted as they seem to be ripped down, he said he has no problem with it – just don’t glue them and use tape.



Shaikh did address some of the issues while I was there. He said that he was not “just pocketing” all the rent money that he is getting as it doesn’t or barely covers the cost of running the place (sorry I forget which one, but I am sure with the mortgage on 21 million that it doesn’t even begin to cover it as there is only about 290 tenants ). That the elevators are now costing in the 7 digits to fix (thinking about this, I am sure this includes the cost of the firemen stationed here, but I am not sure).



When I left, a resident talked about a get together so we can know our neighbors.

kmhar825-, I did want to attend the metting but could not. what you said is what i heard at the meating. the part about post being put up and then torn down i know this to be true,, during the winter when posts were put up about if you are tired of being without heat call the numbers that were on the post, i seen shaikh tearing them down. (seems someone posted them on a lot of floors an on the post it board).. I did hear that the class action lawsuit is going th rough and even if you move you will still get money comming to you. the lawsuit does not only start when this problem started but when shaikh took over 2 yars ago, that means everytime no hot watter, o water and what i think most important, no heat in the winter time. inno. i am dissapointed, again you are evading the first questions, but i will humor you, first of all you need a library card, (easy to get), then if you have not tried to use a computer there then you would not know that you can not just walk in and sit down and use one, you have to set yourself up for a time. in english not british, you have to make an appoitment. by the way, do you have something against the british or the way they speek? i will ask but i know you wont answer, what do you have against people that want to pay rent ( no goverement help or help from outside sources) whom that live and work downtown? by the way, i did look at the other the other low- cost options in the down town area (have you?) ALL that are here have more police calls and reports than plaza square. check it out if you want. if you are as good as you are as answering questions then i will give you a start ,(it seem that you dont .) look up the wbs , its pamplets look great but have you been there? .........before you ask me,, yes i have. and again, I am not thinking of just me. one more question, do you EVER do things to help others just because, ... it was the right thing to do?

innov8ion wrote:There are actually tons of affordable housing choices downtown, to include apartments and condos.

Downtown should have mixed housing – truly affordable housing for people on a budget and very posh high-scaled luxury places. Most income restrictions are for incomes up to $27,000 a year for one person; this has the rent at about 28% if you make that income. People who make minimum wage only earn about $13,500 IF they are working full time (most work two jobs to get 40 hours a week). To live downtown they have to spend minimum of 45% or most likely more of their income on housing. Currently many of these people live in outlying areas and take public transportation to work. I worked one place where many of these wage earners that I am talking about had to leave before the business closed because they had to catch the last bus home. It puts a hardship on the business, the fellow employees, and not the least to mention – the customer. What happens when more late night businesses open?



Personally, I research some housing just off the other metrolink stops – they were either just as or more expensive OR in an area that I wouldn’t feel comfortable living. (Yes, I am choosing to live downtown because I don’t have a car and I don’t always want to have to wait for a bus/metrolink to go to work, the library, a free wi-fi restaurant, the grocery store, pick up my dry cleaning, a park, the ymca, or entertainment. Like others living downtown, I like walking to this things.)



It has been mentioned that north of downtown offers affordable options, but the closest one is Courtyard at Cityside apartments start at $570. The next closest one is Neighborhood Garden Apartments start at $499 with the metrolink being 10 blocks away. This is in an area that doesn’t have as much traffic and not as built up as downtown. It wouldn’t be very fun to walk in bad weather toting groceries, books, dry cleaning, or what-not that far especially in the winter when it gets dark sooner.



Here are some examples of pricing downtown that I have found:



Mansion House starts at $509, but need to add on utilities.



The Gentry’s Landing also starts at $509 and need to add on utilities.



The Mark Twain Hotel is $103.50 a week for a room with a shared bath, $117 a week for a room with a private bath. I’ve not researched it as I have furniture and a cat.



When I inquired at Terrace Loft apartments, I was emailed, “Our average 1 bedroom will be in the $700’s. and 2 bedroom $850+”. I asked to be put on a waitlist for their lower price affordable apartments which are around the $530 range and the email stated, “We will have nothing in that price range for some time, most of those folks renew”.



On the Paul Brown Lofts website, the lowest priced one bedroom in the income restricted range is $615.



On Majestic Stove Lofts website, the rents range from $538 – $1320.00 per month with currently available lofts from $840.00 to $995.00.



Per Merchandise Mart’s website the affordable apartment starts at $630. When I was shown an available “affordable” apartment a year and a half ago, it didn’t have an outside view, only a view of the courtyard inside the building.



The Bee Hat Loft apartments – can’t find the web site, but remember this was way out of my price range.



I saw a posting on Craigslist for a studio at Blue Condos (the building next to Plaza Square that is the same as ours). The rent was advertised for $799 a month.



I am sure I missed some many of the affordable housing options downtown (within a decent walking distance of the metrolink). If you know of any – please send my way so I can research them.



I would like to see Plaza Square get on its feet (and get up to code – not remodel – just up to code) and still offer affordable housing to us that don’t mind living here. (BTW, I pay $415 for rent which gas, heat, trash, water, and sewer are included then I pay my electric separately.)

With a roommate, you can cut expenses in half. I shared an apartment with a roommate in University City, and the monthly expenditure for housing and housing-related costs was a bit over $300 a month. You might want to consider the roommate option.



Also, there seem to be a good amount of lower-cost housing north of Washington downtown. Have you looked into this as well? Also, I don't think rent gets much cheaper anywhere in St. Louis than $500/mo....

kmhar825, i am at your feet kneeling down., when i first posted here others have bashed me because i want to stay and was told several times that those that stay at plaza square need to just move. i even posted a couple links that support what i said, now you have posted here the places and amounts it cost to live there. I will request the police reports for all those placs, but (this will upset a few here trust me on this.) WHY should we have to move? and why should we have to resort to having a roommate? because of what i heard ( 80% believe the sources) this info i have not been there and heard it myself but i trust the informants. shaikh is only the manager , (along with his sister but I do not have the correct spelling of her name so I will not try attemp to post it) the plaza square ap. are owned by urban developers,llc ... and when they, sell it will to a company that whants to turn plaza square into lofts.(this ifo is 99% true because I was at there last meating). if you noticed in here the mood is to move, just ask why you should move then you will probaly get bashed like i have been. hold down the fort because i leave fo K.C for a meeting (do you remember when the mayor showed up?.he said he woul help, but everything that is helping us now is NOT his doing. at the top of the page hit the page numbers to read all the pages and you will see what i am talking about. a bit of advice, this sight is for those that look up on the internet to look up a place to live, this place only wants to hear good things and not the TRUTH about actualy living downtown ) and then come back to SAINT LOUIS , then I have to meet with others to discusess support (money and voulenters) toward the oppoinet against slay.

Heh, I think there is a misunderstanding. All that was suggested earlier was that residents of Plaza Square may want to evaluate other opportunities, especially if conditions are so bad there. Whether you move or not is of no consequence to me.



When Mr. Dragon talks about crime at other locations, it makes me laugh, because I know that this location incurs one of the highest concentrations of police calls downtown. Kinda like a resident of East St. Louis scoffing at a potential move to Ladue because the crime is so bad there. Meanwhile, I would have posted some graphical maps of crime downtown but Safe City maps doesn't appear to be working for me: http://www.slmpd.org/safecity/MapMain.htm



Why should you have to resort to having a roommate? Oh, I don't know... Perhaps to meet budgetary constraints for one. I had a roommate for a couple years when I wanted to more aggressively pay off student loans and the car. Maybe you're above having a roommate, and that's fine. I wasn't. If money is that tight and you want to stay downtown, it's clearly an option.



When it comes down to it, it's all about priorities. There are options to include public assistance if you qualify. Stay at Plaza Square if it makes you happy. Or don't. Best of luck.