urbanSTL

Let's not be too mean. He has a valid point. May not be coming across that well, but there is a problem.

I had to read the post 15 times, but I inferred what I wanted to out of it.

reddragon wrote:fact. the ones in powre now whant to make saint louis a new york2. fact. saint louis is not new york and if you think making all down town loft/condos will not do it. fact, ther are more lofts/condos now than there are those that want to come here and can afford them.(not enough with money to pay for there children to stay here and those with it know saint louis is no.1 in crime, that is a fact. just goto compare crime rate on ANY search you have.)

I guess I don't really understand what you are saying. I think what you're trying to say is that you're scared of gentrification, causing you to spread FUD (fear, uncertainty and doubt) regarding the development of downtown.



We're talking about crime downtown, not in the city as a whole. The heavy crime in the city is not downtown, it's north of Delmar. Your reports don't seem to cite that, do they? By the way, crime downtown is down 25%. Ref: http://tinyurl.com/24ss88. And just wondering, if it's so dangerous, why do you live here?



Regarding loft and condo development. Banks will only grant monies for construction once a certain threshold of reservations have been met. With that being said, rehabs are moving along well and new construction projects look to be meeting targets.



In short, there's no need to be a FUDdy duddy! If I were a downtown resident, and I am, I'd want to make it a better place to live -- not try to spread FUD needlessly. Have no fear, fiery dragon dude, downtown is a place for you as well. And it will be a better place for all because people are moving back in and giving downtown some more love!

yes this covers as a city whole , but if you want down town i can get that for you.? innov8ion i will send you the copy if you want.? . as the part where people are moving into the city? where did this info come frome? the curren census reports people leaving saint louis.( the new census will reflect the plaza square tennets leaving). this will start a new topic but i must ask ,,, everyone here,, do you think that if all the buldings in downtown will make it saffer ? or a better place if you do than i have to disagree. before anyone answers i can tell you why not, this is simple, you have something and others can take it,in plain , you have money and items that some one wants and they will leach of this. FACT, all panhandlers and those that approch you a demad something have the bennifit of the doubt.(remember you can be the victem but if a friend iof them testifies against you the you are the aggresser.)

reddragon wrote:as the part where people are moving into the city? where did this info come frome? the curren census reports people leaving saint louis.( the new census will reflect the plaza square tennets leaving).

Wrong. The city has consistently successfully challenged the Census Bureau's findings, which have been revised to show a net gain of residents.

reddragon wrote:yes this covers as a city whole , but if you want down town i can get that for you.? innov8ion i will send you the copy if you want.? . as the part where people are moving into the city? where did this info come frome? the curren census reports people leaving saint louis.( the new census will reflect the plaza square tennets leaving). this will start a new topic but i must ask ,,, everyone here,, do you think that if all the buldings in downtown will make it saffer ? or a better place if you do than i have to disagree. before anyone answers i can tell you why not, this is simple, you have something and others can take it,in plain , you have money and items that some one wants and they will leach of this. FACT, all panhandlers and those that approch you a demad something have the bennifit of the doubt.(remember you can be the victem but if a friend iof them testifies against you the you are the aggresser.)

I'm just wondering, why are you attempting to scare people away from downtown? What purpose does it serve you? Are you involved with Larry Rice? Are you worried that gentrification will force you out of downtown? And you didn't answer the previous question, "If downtown is so dangerous, why do you live here?" Be honest with us, Mr. Dragon, lest we come to the conclusion you're a troll full of hot air.



In regards to the city population, it has increased in each of the last four years. In regards to safety, more people out and about in a given area does increase safety. As far as panhandling goes, I politely say "no thank you" and indicate to them where they can receive food, shelter, and job training services. I've been living downtown over a year and have always felt safe.



Framing this discussion as Us vs. Them is counterproductive. We should all want downtown to be successful. In downtown, there is room for many different income levels and no one should feel threatened. Development will bring new services and improve the standard of life for all citizens downtown. And if you have a problem with that, something is fishy.

from reading reddragon's posts I get the feeling he is a troll, for someone who supposedly lives downtown now his notion of it has not been reality for over a decade.

Maybe he is one of the Donnybrook gang

I honestly wonder whether true poverty really is the cause of most crime. It seems that the majority of criminals have housing, food and clothing. I think the true cause of crime is being unhappy with your lot. Think about it. But that's not meant for this thread. Neither is the political stab at Bush.



I've heard that there are a lot of police reports from the Plaza Apartments. Is it safe? I don't know.

I don't think poverty is the cause of crime, but it is the most likely breeding ground for crimes against property and people. I'm not excusing those who commit such crimes because as Innovation pointed out, usually they have homes and food, they are stealing to get things they want (bling, video games, Nikes). greedy bastards exist everywhere, in West county they mooch off mom and dad, in the hood they jack someone to get it.





As for the Bush administration, no poverty there but still a breeding ground for criminals

I thought we had already declared victory in the War on Poverty.

Grover wrote:I thought we had already declared victory in the War on Poverty.

=D>

Aren't we having this discussion in like eight different threads?

Good point Shimmy.

Expat wrote:Good point Shimmy.

Yeah, it's like an STD -- The gift that keeps on giving.

No more discussion of crime or poverty in this thread. Period.

to central,, what? i tought i was a bad speller,, i can read between the lines and understand if you misspell words, even realy bad but you lost me. bad day for you? i understand, i work 12 -16 hrs a day and going on 27 days straight now so i understand about bad spelling days., by the way juice.... i do, THAT IS A FACT. on a subject that innov8ion .. i said i will get the crime report fo just downtown and i am. this actualy fits in good for both of us. if i take you right. ? you want down town to become a loft area? the centuary church (in which in an earler post asked if the plaza square and the blue buildind, formaly the bethsda building and the centunary church are owned by the same group. the answer is no.) was given a feed the homeless, offer showers license (that i know i spelled wrong, sorry) now they are going to open up anoughter place down town. ALL approved by slay. tennets of plaza square showed up and the meeting there was a farce ( meaning it was going to happing NO matter what anybody says)

. this new report on crime in down town shows that it HAS increased since it opened,.trueth is, when there is avents at any center down town , more roberies, and car breakins happin.( now i do know i spelled that wrong , sorry all) hey inno... to say i have any part with larry rice, YOU CAN NOT BE MORE WRONG..goto http//stluis.missouri.org/citygov/newsgram/drop-in-center.html i can give you the post dispatches link and the reporters name and e-mail address if you want but i think you already know it or can find it. to answer your question about the scare people away, everyone makes a choice, , if you was walking down the street to go somewhere and someone come up and said that something bad happend and it"might " not be safe to go down there, . understand? . i will and have always only tell the truith,. AND I CAN AND WILL BACK IT UP WITH PROOF.. by the way, as promise to some one here, these are the phone nunbes/ they are are all under the corp. listing (all are from india,and all expressed (refussel to come back under these conditions) dislike towards shaikh and resents the fact that he represents everyone (in action) from the country of oragion(that i know i spelled wrong) they are feel shamed.