Plaza Square

kmhar825 · PostSep 03, 2007#1012007-09-03T17:26+00:00

After posting what I did, I wondered what my true reason for doing so was. At the time I was typing under the influence and upset about all the references to all the affordable housing options in downtown by several people not only on this blog, but in other places as well. I apologize. I should have slept it off before posting.

But with that said, I am still concerned for all the minimum and lower wage workers who downtown businesses depend on to operate. I just need to direct my concerns elsewhere in hopes that this does get addressed. Hopefully an option that these people are not receiving a handout, but an actual place that they can afford on their own.

Again, I would like to see Plaza Square apartments stay open with the truly affordable rates it does offer. Hopefully it can get back up to code and remain affordable.

I do enjoy this site and am glad it is here - I've learned a great deal and am glad there are people out there concerned about the Saint Louis area.

reddragon · PostSep 05, 2007#1022007-09-05T09:39+00:00

kmhar825 , I do not think you said anything wrong, you gave different places for all that do want to leave plaza square but still live downtown and gave the prices. this i commend you. keep up the good work that i say. as far as the under the infuence , I may not have been here long but some of the unimportant post taled liked they were under something

inno.. you go a roommate because YOU had to .that i will mock you for I was just stating why should others be FORCED into that situion(spelled that wrong i know sorry only had 3 hours sleep in 2 days. ). inno.. uhmm , check your sources and the TRUE facts. the info you stated comes from the local reports from the powers that be here.(mayors office) the TRUE fact is no news media in Saint Louis is allowed to show negative reports unless it is covered by other media that can not be stopped. this I got proof in K.C. .. (plaza square is 1 example) so the mayor showed up to be in the media ONLY because he had to,, lets just say he had no choice. given fact he done nothing. inno. you gave the impresson that all plaza quare tennents should move. on that note i will ask AGAIN , can you or WILL YOU NOT answer the questions at hand? p.s. as far as the

blue building, seems they ARE having problems,

hmmmmm.

the central scrutinizer · PostSep 05, 2007#1032007-09-05T13:14+00:00

i think youl find that inno fgot a roomate becvause he wanted to (if you had red more carefully), he stated that hge was tryingg to save money cause he wanted to pay dnebts and meybe you could so the same thing (u7nless yu0 have spent all your monsy( getting rid of slay in 08 now taht is a tall order

so there is still taht option. get, a toomate. why wont yu ansewr that question at hand???, the blue building is seperate from plaza squart which is NOT is kansas city, no matter. and the media? you say they cannaot cover negative news unlesss

they everyone el;se does? is that ai law..? maybe slay past that one! go slay! go cards!

MattnSTL · PostSep 05, 2007#1042007-09-05T15:31+00:00

Knock off the intentional misspelling, CS.

fireman · PostSep 05, 2007#1052007-09-05T16:05+00:00

I would have to argue that St. Louis has done a great job with providing market rate apartments to low income residents. The idea of everyone having a nice one bedroom under $500 in the heart of downtown is just ludacris. If you didn't get one of the market apartments available, then get your name on a list and wait it out. What CAN NOT happen is a surplus of low income that will only drive away those willing to invest in owning a property in the city. There is a stereotype that goes along with low income residents that is very real and hard to overcome. Not to say all of the people on assistance are bad tenants, because I agree they are not!! But more than a handful always are, and that lends itself to problems for the entire building...hell the entire community! St. Louis can't afford to fill up with any more bad elements than it already has. As mass transit expands, this should alleviate some, but until then, it's just a fact of life that those with the $$$ get the better locations.

innov8ion · PostSep 05, 2007#1062007-09-05T18:09+00:00

red dragon wrote:Smile inno.. you go a roommate because YOU had to .that i will mock you for I was just stating why should others be FORCED into that situion(spelled that wrong i know sorry only had 3 hours sleep in 2 days. )

Seeing as this isn't a fascist or communist state, no one forced me to get a roommate. I chose to, just as you or anyone else can make the same decision. Perhaps you aren't concerned with housing costs, but if one were, they could consider finding a cheaper location to live or obtaining a roommate. If there is any "forcing" in this scenario, it will be the force of reality compelling one to make the best decision for themselves.

red dragon wrote:inno.. uhmm , check your sources and the TRUE facts. the info you stated comes from the local reports from the powers that be here.(mayors office) the TRUE fact is no news media in Saint Louis is allowed to show negative reports unless it is covered by other media that can not be stopped. this I got proof in K.C... (plaza square is 1 example)

Last time I checked, the Police Department maintains open records of crime statistics and the media is not controlled by the government. You or anyone is free to slice and dice historical crime data and form your own theories. In previous posts, you have mentioned city-wide crime data when speaking about downtown crime. Makes more sense to utilize downtown crime data, doesn't it? And if you have some, please cite it as we have. Also, the Police Department has implemented plans and are continually working to more aggressively fight crime. Isn't that what you want?

red dragon wrote:so the mayor showed up to be in the media ONLY because he had to, lets just say he had no choice. given fact he done nothing.

I understand you are unpleased with the situation as can be understandable. However, isn't it fair to point blame where true responsibility for the situation rests -- the Plaza Square ownership? The Mayor has acted proactively in spurring legal action against the Plaza Square ownership to bring the building into compliance. Additionally, they have worked to relocate at-risk residents who have been affected by the elevator issue. Unfortunately, the Mayor is not a magician that can make all your troubles go away with the flick of a wand or a twitch of the nose. If you were mayor, how would you have dealt with the situation differently? You seem like a fair, reasonable person, so I'm sure you have some ideas.

red dragon wrote:inno. you gave the impresson that all plaza quare tennents should move. on that note i will ask AGAIN , can you or WILL YOU NOT answer the questions at hand?

Perhaps there was an understanding so allow me to again reiterate. You and the other residents of Plaza Square may do as they please and I wish everyone the best. I only suggested that given the quantity and type of complaints residents do have with the building, it may be advantageous to investigate if there are better options elsewhere. Just a rational thought; take it for what it's worth.

shinpickle · PostSep 05, 2007#1072007-09-05T19:58+00:00

- it would suck for anyone to lose their apartment, but you do not have a legal right to keep the same rent "until you die"

- the lease is your contract, they are responsible for maintenance while you have a lease. There are many more laws protecting tenants than owners, and a forum is an excellent place to unite, converse, and explore actions to hold your landlord accountable for maintenance.

- sorry I guess there's not much you can do about the spellchecking with MSNTV

dweebe · PostSep 05, 2007#1082007-09-05T20:00+00:00

shinpickle wrote:- it would suck for anyone to lose their apartment, but you do not have a legal right to keep the same rent "until you die"

- the lease is your contract, they are responsible for maintenance while you have a lease. There are many more laws protecting tenants than owners, and a forum is an excellent place to unite, converse, and explore actions to hold your landlord accountable for maintenance.

- there is a simple program, called the "google toolbar", and it provides a spell checker for when you're typing online. it might be easier to sell people on your ideas if they can understand them.

http://toolbar.google.com/

Or use Firefox as a browser. It has a built-in spell checker.

the central scrutinizer · PostSep 05, 2007#1092007-09-05T20:19+00:00

dweebe wrote:
shinpickle wrote:- it would suck for anyone to lose their apartment, but you do not have a legal right to keep the same rent "until you die"

- the lease is your contract, they are responsible for maintenance while you have a lease. There are many more laws protecting tenants than owners, and a forum is an excellent place to unite, converse, and explore actions to hold your landlord accountable for maintenance.

- there is a simple program, called the "google toolbar", and it provides a spell checker for when you're typing online. it might be easier to sell people on your ideas if they can understand them.

http://toolbar.google.com/

Or use Firefox as a browser. It has a built-in spell checker.

Or just make an attempt to spell it correctly in the first place.

shinpickle · PostSep 05, 2007#1102007-09-05T20:22+00:00

I'm impressed he got this far without a mouse

stlight · PostSep 05, 2007#1112007-09-05T21:57+00:00

is this post still about plaza square?...I stopped reading (or trying to read) a long time ago

innov8ion · PostSep 06, 2007#1122007-09-06T00:02+00:00

^ Yup, it is. Although we could probably do without the condescending comments toward the spelling deficient. Thanks for stopping by.

MattnSTL · PostSep 06, 2007#1132007-09-06T00:03+00:00

Yep, we could do without the condescending comments. I may have pointed out the spelling way back when, but I didn't make it a point to post it over and over again.

reddragon · PostSep 06, 2007#1142007-09-06T09:38+00:00

inno.. I am at fault. i just got back again from out of town.(in myline of work you have to travel/ goto where they send you). i did just get back and just reading most of the post i read yours, I looked over your post and seen where i said about your roommate , I said I mocked you. that is NOT what I ment to say , FOR THIS I AM SORRY. what I thought and wanted to say ways ( i WONT mock you) . AGAIN i am sorry for that miss understanding brought on by my part. now as far as the other posts towards me, I will respond Thursday evening. if you traveled before you would know what no sleep is about. centeral scrutiner, ????????? i think i know what your post says but i wont commment to you.

the central scrutinizer · PostSep 06, 2007#1152007-09-06T13:22+00:00

reddragon wrote:centeral scrutiner, ????????? i think i know what your post says but i wont commment to you.

Evasion noted.

reddragon · PostSep 07, 2007#1162007-09-07T09:08+00:00

ok this is funny in a small way. i got called to work at 10 am , just got back at 1 am, inno.. remember when i gave you the link to compare crime rates? you stated I before hand that i was going on some elses report.( I that i never heard of before, you stated it was a report from north of downtown saint louis and the city as a whole. now you say report from the police are available to any one? that statement is true, but false. you can get it IF you know how. and ordnary citizen will have to spend monts, after completing the right forms then wait fo it to be mailed, but you seem to know all the right chanels ... hummm. so you know the crime rate in downtown? hmmmm. it still brings up the first question? you STILL wont answer it will you?.

innov8ion · PostSep 07, 2007#1172007-09-07T13:07+00:00

What is the first question? What are you talking about?

But I'll admit I have connections that other people may not have. In fact, this one friend of mine literally has billions of connections and can find almost anything I desire -- his name is Google. Well, he helped me to locate the St. Louis Police Department website. Then from there I clicked on the Crime Statistics link: http://www.slmpd.org/crimestats/index.htm.

But really, I think that the Safe City website is more helpful as it shows specifically where crime occurs. Unfortunately, it doesn't work. I get an error that says, "Unable to display map service." This isn't good for marketing, folks. Someone needs to get on the ball and fix this.

A good idea might be to utilize the Google Maps API in creating a St. Louis Crime map. Here's the documentation for the API: http://www.google.com/apis/maps/documentation/. For instance, check out the Chicago Crime @ http://www.chicagocrime.org/. Here's a bit about it was independently created: http://www.chicagocrime.org/about/. But for this to be created, the data must be made public (location, date of crime, type of crime, crime description, etc...

---- Edit ---- I added "Safe City" to my trusted sites in IE and it now works. Hate these IE dependencies...

rbb · PostSep 07, 2007#1182007-09-07T13:14+00:00

reddragon wrote:now you say report from the police are available to any one? that statement is true, but false. you can get it IF you know how. and ordnary citizen will have to spend monts, after completing the right forms then wait fo it to be mailed, but you seem to know all the right chanels.

You can get crime information from the city's website:

http://www.slmpd.org/safecity/MapMain.htm

According to it, there have been 565 incidents with case numbers within ½ mile of 10 Plaza Square, 63103 since January 1st, 2007:

Selected Date:

From 2007/01/01

To 2007/09/07

Hours Each Day:

From 12 Midnight To 12 Midnight

Selected Area:

Address: 10 Plaza Square,63103

Loading...

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Found Incident List

2 Sexual Assault

Case # 07462795 07463832

1 Theft

Case # 07464262

86 Stolen Autos

Case # 07463259 07460383 07446468 07464929 07458695 07459834 07452707 07444318 07449540 07449454 07459944 07447841 07452080 07453696 07445256 07452085 07447516 07444331 07449724 07462867 07456492 07454384 07462107 07449723 07458547 07465808 07457501 07444477 07456616 07458711 07465892 07444330 07461797 07462684 07452014 07450905 07447790 07459106 07464039 07444329 07459865 07451027 07451507 07448789 07465911 07464943 07452706 07464596 07450765 07463078 07447588 07459156 07445510 07451288 07462785 07455438 07445944 07452181 07447604 07449609 07446168 07459991 07458899 07449606 07461452 07449613 07455374 07448295 07448052 07459634 07453339 07463813 07449025 07449646 07452798 07465305 07453082 07444686 07444681 07451469 07465540 07455932 07465836 07457068 07461644 07444205

24 Weapons

Case # 07465727 07465350 07461519 07449273 07459965 07464034 07452573 07450433 07459443 07452607 07453387 07463360 07463387 07461741 07459899 07460581 07446188 07444807 07466197 07464201 07466068 07450073 07445909 07460409

56 Neighborhood Issues

Case # 07444610 07451452 07463633 07457010 07447375 07446597 07452128 07456369 07448226 07461375 07462207 07444237 07465649 07454855 07449896 07457783 07449792 07453661 07454610 07462524 07454856 07461148 07447747 07463449 07454544 07459591 07451131 07453386 07459275 07453710 07454969 07464229 07451046 07455291 07445529 07455953 07453669 07458966 07449608 07464946 07461470 07445542 07453709 07446628 07463498 07447166 07444214 07460937 07466026 07453278 07459220 07456970 07449379 07455260 07461801 07448379

323 Peace Disturbances

Case # 07466353 07451529 07451803 07466117 07464794 07459680 07461260 07444522 07456717 07457761 07457506 07451260 07465898 07455068 07451252 07456725 07454882 07456480 07465566 07449767 07444328 07445903 07455612 07465402 07443905 07458775 07444810 07465036 07464613 07456309 07466485 07459087 07453111 07448122 07460549 07452665 07449612 07465318 07460471 07454945 07465053 07454100 07463185 07461373 07461948 07458278 07460704 07454511 07447150 07464924 07465490 07457830 07447708 07450585 07452699 07456806 07445264 07450788 07449949 07465771 07462439 07455179 07463634 07459115 07443734 07448262 07450706 07451510 07449614 07462865 07457917 07458279 07447304 07445854 07456305 07452536 07451717 07456455 07452267 07444094 07458586 07446617 07457516 07464099 07459687 07459720 07465734 07447959 07454431 07452616 07458078 07457454 07459633 07461269 07451170 07463442 07464752 07449438 07457267 07460225 07452617 07457912 07454699 07455868 07466487 07447743 07463764 07456509 07461616 07448265 07445415 07456918 07465536 07461118 07445515 07464926 07451359 07453885 07459075 07452474 07446311 07446622 07458986 07444669 07465035 07444177 07447490 07462579 07455069 07454197 07455483 07450655 07444589 07462648 07450923 07447893 07451508 07449508 07461896 07447341 07458980 07462578 07461303 07451660 07446942 07444238 07444592 07446453 07446967 07464320 07465442 07455214 07459263 07460962 07461359 07463101 07459575 07446442 07451629 07449240 07457099 07463435 07451836 07456078 07449177 07463629 07457460 07450787 07452615 07458277 07461920 07463068 07450803 07463186 07452249 07466337 07461975 07446073 07456939 07461542 07458338 07446285 07458232 07455946 07448865 07466148 07463752 07461093 07454561 07451826 07459862 07460385 07447205 07450810 07445274 07456729 07450296 07465169 07461399 07453699 07449444 07461475 07454233 07446828 07451917 07444895 07444591 07459511 07463150 07446798 07453826 07466145 07456220 07450954 07447514 07445041 07454710 07461774 07455229 07465772 07456610 07451089 07449673 07448482 07446040 07462662 07450802 07453529 07445741 07447562 07465236 07461419 07459261 07450590 07464198 07453853 07463048 07448514 07459925 07463709 07447132 07445795 07461151 07456821 07446635 07464163 07449251 07447857 07444855 07460913 07465149 07456251 07445698 07460187 07444458 07465320 07449227 07444660 07464173 07463531 07451557 07446888 07462811 07448399 07462039 07448403 07459060 07449290 07453253 07447788 07463151 07464526 07456749 07461592 07459080 07464253 07453756 07454612 07460195 07463746 07452974 07444545 07451026 07457743 07444167 07455702 07447969 07447615 07449203 07465246 07464842 07462645 07450476 07444045 07450941 07446826 07464595 07463496 07454308 07462452 07450084 07459920 07457910 07451850 07466350 07459671 07465170 07459670 07443743 07462172 07452314 07455347 07450347 07449853 07443724 07456061 07447894 07446089 07465120 07456141 07461704 07462517 07462033

21 Crimes Against Children

Case # 07448931 07455160 07444548 07465555 07453546 07463953 07459779 07463845 07464481 07459978 07447359 07453611 07454614 07460972 07464679 07452844 07463734 07445744 07464642 07450831 07447327

52 Kidnapping

Case # 07457079 07445948 07454483 07463668 07449001 07453286 07450407 07464010 07463266 07466429 07444928 07448942 07448775 07449258 07463843 07444966 07447811 07459675 07455363 07455353 07464459 07464287 07447525 07449581 07456793 07450845 07460876 07461820 07446331 07459901 07454482 07445368 07444395 07451973 07458802 07464091 07451511 07456057 07465526 07465690 07454674 07444096 07466287 07449318 07451240 07450402 07447839 07459292 07444750 07446986 07450938 07462444

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Found Service Calls List

1988 Service Calls

These are the incidents listed specifically at Plaza Square:

7449540

Stolen Autos

08/20/2007 21:40

00 block of PLAZA SQ

Downtown West

4

7452085

Stolen Autos

05/19/2007 5:30

00 block of PLAZA SQ

Downtown West

4

7452181

Stolen Autos

05/09/2007 22:30

00 block of PLAZA SQ

Downtown West

4

7449540

Stolen Autos

08/20/2007 21:40

00 block of PLAZA SQ

Downtown West

4

7452085

Stolen Autos

05/19/2007 5:30

00 block of PLAZA SQ

Downtown West

4

7452181

Stolen Autos

05/09/2007 22:30

00 block of PLAZA SQ

Downtown West

4

7465350

Weapons

06/27/2007 12:00

00 block of PLAZA SQ

Downtown West

4

7461519

Weapons

08/09/2007 0:50

00 block of PLAZA SQ

Downtown West

4

7459965

Weapons

07/11/2007 11:00

00 block of PLAZA SQ

Downtown West

4

7459443

Weapons

07/16/2007 8:00

00 block of PLAZA SQ

Downtown West

4

7447375

Neighborhood Issues

06/10/2007 11:30

00 block of PLAZA SQ

Downtown West

4

7462207

Neighborhood Issues

05/15/2007 10:00

00 block of PLAZA SQ

Downtown West

4

7456725

Peace Disturbances

08/04/2007 23:10

00 block of PLAZA SQ

Downtown West

4

7465734

Peace Disturbances

07/02/2007 12:00

00 block of PLAZA SQ

Downtown West

4

7449177

Peace Disturbances

08/15/2007 21:15

00 block of PLAZA SQ

Downtown West

4

7456725

Peace Disturbances

08/04/2007 23:10

00 block of PLAZA SQ

Downtown West

4

7465734

Peace Disturbances

07/02/2007 12:00

00 block of PLAZA SQ

Downtown West

4

7449177

Peace Disturbances

08/15/2007 21:15

00 block of PLAZA SQ

Downtown West

4

7457460

Peace Disturbances

07/31/2007 22:00

00 block of PLAZA SQ

Downtown West

4

7466337

Peace Disturbances

07/03/2007 15:00

00 block of PLAZA SQ

Downtown West

4

7453529

Peace Disturbances

08/15/2007 20:30

00 block of PLAZA SQ

Downtown West

4

7456725

Peace Disturbances

08/04/2007 23:10

00 block of PLAZA SQ

Downtown West

4

7465734

Peace Disturbances

07/02/2007 12:00

00 block of PLAZA SQ

Downtown West

4

7449177

Peace Disturbances

08/15/2007 21:15

00 block of PLAZA SQ

Downtown West

4

7457460

Peace Disturbances

07/31/2007 22:00

00 block of PLAZA SQ

Downtown West

4

7466337

Peace Disturbances

07/03/2007 15:00

00 block of PLAZA SQ

Downtown West

4

7453529

Peace Disturbances

08/15/2007 20:30

00 block of PLAZA SQ

Downtown West

4

7464010

Kidnapping

05/10/2007 23:22

00 block of PLAZA SQ

Downtown West

4

7463266

Kidnapping

05/30/2007 6:10

00 block of PLAZA SQ

Downtown West

4

7464287

Kidnapping

06/03/2007 22:15

00 block of PLAZA SQ

Downtown West

4

7464010

Kidnapping

05/10/2007 23:22

00 block of PLAZA SQ

Downtown West

4

7463266

Kidnapping

05/30/2007 6:10

00 block of PLAZA SQ

Downtown West

4

In addition, there were 1988 service calls in that same area, a handful of which were at Plaza Square but did not merit a case number assignment.

-RBB

moorlander · PostSep 07, 2007#1192007-09-07T13:47+00:00

holy !@$%

I'm astonished by the kidnapping cases. It says 52!!!! in the area this year alone. (with 5 by ps residents) Wow, that's unfathomable.

jmedwick · PostSep 07, 2007#1202007-09-07T14:18+00:00

[sarcasm] Well that settles it! I am not going downtown again. Talk about taking your life in your hands. [/sarcasm]

debaliviere · PostSep 07, 2007#1212007-09-07T14:21+00:00

bpe235 wrote:holy !@$%

I'm astonished by the kidnapping cases. It says 52!!!! in the area this year alone. (with 5 by ps residents) Wow, that's unfathomable.

Two of those five kidnapping incidents are listed twice. Not that it makes it any less serious.

reddragon · PostSep 08, 2007#1222007-09-08T10:16+00:00

yes, THERE is al lot crime AROUND plaza square, (with what i have i use the bold not to yell but to underline the words ) . the SIGHTS and the POLICE REPORTS , i thank you all for the info sights online. all should know that because that because it is posted somewhere online does that make it true? yes i posted a sight to compare crime rates, that i found ONLINE. trust it? just like the chicago indepent sight i trust it to be more true than the ones that in power and know the REAL stats. the crime around plaza square (like i said in post in the begining ) , happens when there are events, like concerts, baseball games, family events and hockey games.. this happens all the time, every time. so this brings up anougheter issu,e why is all these crimes continu , i mean if the police know all this is going on why do they not at least cut the reports in half? do there job in the streets and not staying in one place,, like the loft area,( inno.. we all have people we know , i KNOW the police, and yes i know that the police, on tax payers money, escort loft tennats and they are ordered to make sure noone hangs out near a loft but ANYONE can hang out in the parks after hours or hagout by any building other than a loft area. your mayor helps that ? hmmm we both know that answer already. inno.. you seem to copy and paste REAL good so why do you not know the question.? to refress your memory if it helps. do you think if all downtwn became lofts do you think it would reduce crime?

citywatcher · PostSep 08, 2007#1232007-09-08T14:57+00:00

^

do you think if all downtwn became lofts do you think it would reduce crime?

If Larry Rice's NLEC became Lofts.

It would reduce crime.

bastiat · PostSep 08, 2007#1242007-09-08T16:57+00:00

I'm surprised the moderators have not locked this thread yet...

jmedwick · PostSep 08, 2007#1252007-09-08T17:25+00:00

do you think if all downtown became lofts do you think it would reduce crime?

Interesting question. I think people can pretty well identity those properties downtown that seem to be a magnets for crime. Moreover, if those places (such as the NLEC or perhaps Plaza Square) were converted, I think much of the crime associated with them would leave. That said, some of the "departed" crime would just come back in a different from. Perhaps instead of having all the kidnappings, the area would just have more auto thefts or burglaries.

Still, I think the evolution of crime downtown away from serious crimes (rape, murder, kidnapping) to what some might consider less serious crimes (auto theft and burglaries) is a positive step. So yeah, I do think it would reduce crime, or at least reduce serious crimes and that the evolution is a positive thing.

Plaza Square

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