urbanSTL

centeral, i did reread my post, did you? I thnk maybe you missunderstood it. i sayed that the police can not do this. you wanted the link for this story fine, bu i know you well enough that you will do your best to cut this trueth down, ( its your nature i think, ) goto stltoday.com on the left hand side scroll down to the archives link (i would do it for you but remember, i am unable to post the link itself) . type in downtown partnership, the second page is where it is posted, it was on july 15,2005, id# 1000325105. when you read it , it starts the story but i do not think you are worth the $ 2.95 to download the rest. as far as low income resednts goes, there are more goverment workers here at plaza square than than there are people here at plaza square than there are those here on this blog. to use centerals way of thinking, I am assuming they are being called low income? of course the other city workers are low income also? inno.. when i said the fif, sorry i hit the wrong key, i ment tif. it is,(in english) a tax exemt to all that buy and makes condos/lofts in and only downtown saint louis.(before you say it centeral i have ALL the copies on papper fron the alderman and board meetings where the mayor asked and all approved all money to certain developers that not cover just down town but ALL over the city. all those names and all those involved are giong public, when is the mayor up fo re election? . inno.. you asked what the point is? you said your point, downtown saint louis is that YOU want downtown saintlouis to become a condo/loft area.? just that you know i am trying to get 911 calls from all the condo/loft buildings and compare them with the others downtown to see what the compare in numbers. everyone knows that just because someone calls 911 does not mean that a report will be made. funny how all the reports of crime by plaza square tennats can no be confirmed that they are tennats and how little of this is in the media, remeber i said the media does not make crime downtown public, unless they have too.. ok centeral,, show yourself on this..i opend the door for you , but then again you ALWAYS TRY to shoot anyone down that has opposite views than you .

Red Dragon, please stop distorting the truth and putting words in my mouth. I never said I wanted downtown to be a "condo/loft area." You're like a broken record. I would like to see more people move downtown, whether they buy condos/lofts or rent apartments.



TIF's are good tools to bolster areas that could use development. Believe me, it was a smart move by the city to provide incentives to turn vacated buildings into residential / mixed use. Additionally, the public in the St. Louis MSA generally wants to see downtown improve. Why are you against this? Oh, I forgot -- Your mind is drunk with gentrification fears. Sorry, downtown St. Louis can't remain your ghetto playland forever. It's improving and will continue to do so, whether you like it or not.



By the way, the police can enforce laws in the parks. Note that when the parks are closed, no one is allowed to loiter there. The cases you mention did not deal with enforcing established laws, to my knowledge.



More government workers live at Plaza Square than there are residents at Plaza Square than are on this blog? Uh, I assume your consistent inability to make sense is a result of writing posts at 2-3am?

A little food for thought that seems apropos:



"Neither great poverty nor great riches will hear reason."

- Henry Fielding

^Amen.

henry fielding? inno..come on now,anyone who knows, knows he squandered his money, now sure he had 1 great book , come on now, i DID a small report on him in college. no i can not remember the whole report (uhmm some years ago ). i do remember he everything he did he screwed up later. inno.. you stated something about me posting at 2:00 am, a normal day for me is starting at (about) 9:00 am then i get home no sooner than 12:00am ,so to me 12:00 am is like eveyone elses 5:00 pm. lets see, humm was it not you that said that I am afraid of gentrification? remember you KEEP saying that. the broken record here seem to be you! . also rember i said I do not fear change . you said downtown can't be your getto playground forever.?? what do you mean? I work a LOT of hours and have to travel a lot so i can understand if you only skip over the posts, so if you are reffering to when i spoke of the gettos, then maybe then you need to take a break, when you get time , reread the post. i will PRAY for you my friend. centeral..did you even goto the sight i gave you? .. if no is the answer then , that ok, if you want I will put that news report on the street and i am trying to get a web link for you but you should have quessed by now that i dont trust everything you can fnd on the web, i deal in the papper work/in writing. as i got in writing the papper work where mayor slay approved millions to ceartain developers in saint louis. yes, i am going to put that in the streets also. .

The Central Scrutinizer wrote:

reddragon wrote:henry fielding? inno..come on now,anyone who knows, knows he squandered his money, now sure he had 1 great book , come on now, i DID a small report on him in college. no i can not remember the whole report (uhmm some years ago ).

You went to college? Wow, that is h.....wow. Just wow. Was it accredited?

I'll assume this is addressed to me. My sight is just fine, thank you. How that relates to anything, I don't know. Good luck getting your papper published

![/quote]



This is me biting my tongue.

centeral, i still find you funny. one reason I say this is bacause you said your sight is fine... lmao.... but to answer youre question, yes i did and yes it was and still is, is yours if you did go? you still have not read all the past posts have you? lmao... besides ,, what papper? I never said anything about writing a papper or have it published??? but this is not about this , the topic is plaza square appartments..

I'll bet it's hard to read this guy's grocery list!!!

The Fielding quote was just a quote, a piece of wisdom to reflect on, if you will. The story of the man's life is inconsequential to the quote.



Regarding fear of gentrification, you have continually spoken about the fear of being priced out of apartments downtown. You may deny it if you wish, but that is the definition of the fear of gentrification. I won't further argue this point because it's circular.



When I said "downtown can't be your ghetto playland forever," I meant what I said. You seem to be more interested with spinning downtown development in the most negative fashion in order to limit progress. This board is set up to promote downtown development, not bring it down.



Regarding TIF, the public may take part in the process.

- Mayor's Blog about TIFS and public hearings: http://www.mayorslay.com/desk/display.asp?deskID=796

- SLDC TIF Commission: http://stlouis.missouri.org/sldc/tif.html



That's it. I think I've officially tired of this thread.

reddragon,



Can you please slow down and maybe re-read or maybe even think about what you are posting? Maybe you could bring them up to at least a middle-school level of correctness? I can read Ulysses but I am having trouble with your posts because you are making so many random mistakes and meandering arguments.

Alright, I think we've all had enough of this. I'm no moderator, but reading this is nauseating at best. Get over it and talk about the topic. Grow up.

ok centeral, you said the problem about "cid" did not happen, i gave you a link to the news arttica and you still insist it did not happen. so i WILL give you the full artical ,(this evening ) but my question is will you still say it did not happen..just ask ANY police officer or cid personal. inno, you stated "note,it's my understanding that the police get a lot of calls from these buildings. I think a fair amount of drug activaty and other crime (this is from page 1 , you said this) . the next (still on page 1) by grover asked , is this the comple that has te blu condo conversions?next statement says , by mattnstl says, yrs, it is the same complex. next , innov8ion says could be nice to tun those into condos.. all this before i even posted here, so does this answere your last question centeral..? and come this evening i will put up here ALL the proposels that mayer slay and his supporters passed to give city tax payers money to developers to run tax payers out of there homes for the better

dude... it's C E N T R A L not C E N T E R A L! It says it right there above you're post (and about 2600 other times on this board), and the fact that you keep mispelling it over and over and over and over and over and over is really @#%%@ up. I could care less about mispelling a few words (everyone one does it), but the same words over and over after people keep pointing them out is unacceptable, IMHO of course.



http://www.dictionary.com

Why do you guys keep arguing about nonsense? Don't answer my question - please!



It would be nice if this thread became dormant until some real Plaza Square news comes along.

centeral you are still living up to your name. inno is what i use for the short way of saying innov8ion, just like i say Central in short for The Central Scrutinizer . ok? bpe235 , have you even given a thought that i know i spelled it wrong? The Central Scrutinizer , the article i spoke of you know whom they are, they ride bikes and act like securty) that was on the news and got sued because because they turned in the licenes plates to cearten officals.,, you said I think you are making this up. If you are going to make a claim like this, you need to provide a link. then STL63101 said

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

RedDragon is mostly correct. The Partnership and the SLPD were sued by the ACLU on behalf of several homeless who were rounded up and sent to an experimental court where they were put in front of a judge immediately. The judge was a specialist in human services who had social workers and service providers in the courtroom to get the offenders off the street and into a program that could actually help them. The Partnership and SLPD ended up losing this case and the court had to be disbanded and also resulted in a much more timid partnership and SLPD handling of the homeless downtown. The program was very sound and effective, but the means were not exactly the most respectful of the homeless' civil rights. The trigger event was a "rounding up" of the homeless prior to the VP fair weekend. i gave this link already http://stlouis.org/citgov/newsgram/drop-in-center.htm as for the claim that i say about mayor slay approving all funds http://stlcin.missouri.org/cityjournal/ just read and enjoy. recommend you review all the past first then work up, just like a good book, start from the begining to understand all players in the middle. How group got privileged information interests Mokwa

JAKE WAGMAN

Of the Post-Dispatch

St. Louis Post-Dispatch (MO) July 15, 2005



Section: News Edition: Five Star Late Lift

Page A1 Word count: 1295



ID#: 1000325101

The St. Louis Police Department has opened an inquiry about how a private booster group obtained vehicle registration information on people giving food to homeless people downtown. Chief Joe Mokwa says he has asked the department's internal affairs division to determine whether police provided the names and addresses registered to cars and church vans spotted near Lucas Park, a popular spot for the homeless.





The St. Louis Police Department has opened an inquiry about how a private booster group obtained vehicle registration information on people giving food to homeless people downtown. Chief Joe Mokwa says he has asked the department's internal affairs division to determine whether police provided the names and addresses registered to cars and church vans spotted near Lucas Park, a popular spot for the homeless.



That information was used by the Downtown St. Louis Partnership, which



The St. Louis Police Department has opened an inquiry about how a private booster group obtained vehicle registration information on people giving food to homeless people downtown.



Chief Joe Mokwa says he has asked the department's internal affairs division to determine whether police provided the names and addresses registered to cars and church vans spotted near Lucas Park, a popular spot for the homeless.





That information was used by the Downtown St. Louis Partnership, which monitored the park for three months and compiled a list of more than two dozen people and groups that passed out goods to the homeless. The list eventually was given to the city's Department of Human Services, which used it to convene a meeting with the groups.





The inquiry comes at time of mounting tension between city officials and some advocates for the homeless. The Downtown Partnership and the police department have been named in a federal suit alleging homeless people were wrongfully jailed to clear the streets during last year's Fair St. Louis.



This latest incident stems from a debate about whether feeding homeless people in city parks does more harm than good. St. Louis officials are trying to discourage it, saying public feedings are unsanitary, sporadic and uncoordinated. Agencies and groups such as the St. Patrick Center and the New Life Evangelistic Center offer food, counseling and other services to the homeless.



But those who bring food to the parks -- mostly religious groups -- say helping the homeless is part of their calling.



"When God himself tells me to stop feeding the poor, I will stop," said Sheryl Rapagnani, who lives in Lake Saint Louis.



For years, Lucas Park, an acre of land between Locust, St. Charles, 13th and 14th streets, has been a favorite for the city's homeless -- it's often called "Hobo Park." People can often be seen sleeping on the grass or on benches around the park's fountain.







hey centeral, here is what you said did not happen.

i did pay the 2.95 for this and have made 1000 copies. as far as my statement aout city and goverement workers here.there are min. 10 but i think 16, federal workers, min.47 but i guess about 50+, so again i ask are city workers and goverment workers considered a low income? now to plaza square, the manager seems to be fixing all the problems that was on the news and fixing enough to keep him out of jail. great news huh, a new sighn on the first floor at the elevaiter says " in case of fire do not use elevaiters, use staireways.. as if we do not know how to use them already, .oh , i almost forgot,

The Central Scrutinizer

you seem as smart as i am at spellimg .

reddragon,



You do know what you just did is illegal...



from the post's archive FAQs-



Archived articles are copyright of the St. Louis Post-Dispatch and cannot be republished electronically or in print without written permission. For information, contact Cheryl Laut, Newsroom Office Manager at the St. Louis Post-Dispatch at (314) 340-8102, or send an e-mail message to claut@post-dispatch.com.



Stop being a hypocrite.