Millennium Hotel Site Redevelopment

EssTeeEll · PostJul 24, 2020#1312020-07-24T16:30+00:00

What IS the deal with the Millennium buildings? I've heard people say they're literally unable to be saved because the quality of them is so poor. Is there any truth to that, or is that largely hyperbole?

Also...just to remain somewhat on topic, I just heard on 101 they're closing off Clark as they usually do on game days, so I assume there will be a nice little crowd outside BPV this evening. Hopefully, they'll turn away non-maskers, but I don't think they will.

framer · PostJul 24, 2020#1322020-07-24T16:34+00:00

I love the Millenium nee Stouffer's towers. Hope they can be saved.

dbInSouthCity · PostJul 24, 2020#1332020-07-24T17:02+00:00

Reason you don’t see many round towers is because they’re hard to utilize, especially in today’s age. If the highway in front of this property was a regular ole road this building thing would be redeveloped by now.

GoHarvOrGoHome · PostJul 24, 2020#1342020-07-24T17:12+00:00

If they play their cards right, there could be a huge parking podium with street level retail on 4th. Big enough to sustain residential towers above and maybe even help replace the East Stadium Garage. The highway and pre-existing superblock makes this one of the few lots downtown where this makes sense.

sc4mayor · PostJul 24, 2020#1352020-07-24T17:12+00:00

EssTeeEll wrote: ↑
Jul 24, 2020
What IS the deal with the Millennium buildings? I've heard people say they're literally unable to be saved because the quality of them is so poor. Is there any truth to that, or is that largely hyperbole?

Also...just to remain somewhat on topic, I just heard on 101 they're closing off Clark as they usually do on game days, so I assume there will be a nice little crowd outside BPV this evening. Hopefully, they'll turn away non-maskers, but I don't think they will.

Like DB mentions its shape doesn't lend well to reuse...but I've heard (and I think seen reported) that there is a significant mold problem with the buildings. I've seen asbestos mentioned too but I'm not sure if that's true or not. I'd like to see the shorter building demolished and Clark extended, then the taller one could be reused. But I'm not at all opposed to a full demolition and then at some point way in the future the East garage can come down and BPV could be extended down to Memorial.

Edit: To follow up on Harv's point...you could put a large garage podium there (with the stipulation that it has to be built upon) with quick access to Memorial and the highway ramps on the east side and street level activation on the west side and south sides. I would still split the block with Clark, the garage wouldn't have to be as large as Stadium East. It, combined with the newer BPV garages (and future podiums there) could easily account for the Stadium East garage, which never even fills up all the way to begin with.

I bet we could lose the Stadium East garage today with out any noticeable effect on the parking situation downtown...

Timmy · PostJul 24, 2020#1362020-07-24T17:24+00:00

“I’ve heard comments that just to cure the deficiencies and bring it back to a hotel would cost $100,000 per room, so that’s $80 million just to have the shell to put a hotel in,” he said." - Gary Andreas

"“My recommendation was to tear it down,” he said. “The project was part of the civic center redevelopment that also included the Arch and the original Busch Stadium. It was built rather inexpensively and the infrastructure just isn’t that good. It’s a great location for something new, but I haven’t heard anything since they contacted me.” - Bob O'Loughlin

https://www.bizjournals.com/stlouis/new ... nnium.html

addxb2 · PostJul 24, 2020#1372020-07-24T17:42+00:00

Assuming the downtown STL office market doesn’t rebound, I think the location and land would be perfect for a family resort style hotel. An indoor water park type of attraction with a tasteful exterior that still fits our urban center.

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SeattleNative · PostJul 24, 2020#1382020-07-24T18:21+00:00

addxb2 wrote:Assuming the downtown STL office market doesn’t rebound, I think the location and land would be perfect for a family resort style hotel. An indoor water park type of attraction with a tasteful exterior that still fits our urban center.

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A municipal water park somewhere downtown would be very cool.

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wabash · PostJul 24, 2020#1392020-07-24T18:53+00:00

dbInSouthCity wrote: ↑
Jul 24, 2020
Reason you don’t see many round towers is because they’re hard to utilize, especially in today’s age.

It's true. People are more square today than they used to be.

dredger · PostJul 24, 2020#1402020-07-24T21:49+00:00

^^ Yep on indoor water park as part of hotel development. I think it would do well in downtown with its attractions and assume that you if have it near arch grounds/near ballpark and or on the landing is best fit.

Speaking of quotes above, wonder if Bob ever looked into it as part of Union Station rehab if I got my Union Station developer/owner group correct. The other spot that I think a resort theme hotel with big indoor waterpark is having it as part of Zoos plan to redevelop the old Forest Park hospital site. But that is for a different thread on different day.

aprice · PostJul 25, 2020#1412020-07-25T00:59+00:00

framer wrote: ↑
Jul 24, 2020
I love the Millenium nee Stouffer's towers. Hope they can be saved.

I'm with Framer. The building is full of architectural oddities that while yes, make it hard to re-utilize, also make the building so much more interesting than any other hotel downtown in my opinion (other than Union Station, of course). The massive underground oval ballroom, the city's only revolving restaurant, the open artium in the addition, the glass lobby facing the arch, the doors that face Memorial Dr that access the ballroom level, etc.
Of the many many issues with downtown's street grid, extending Clark to Memorial Dr is very very low on my list.

DogtownBnR · PostJul 25, 2020#1422020-07-25T01:06+00:00

A large Great Wolf type deal would be awesome but saving the tower is essential. The rest can go, but the tower is a staple in the skyline. Unless you’re going to replace it with a signature building, it needs to stay.

My question is, is this property even available? Are the owners sitting on it? If so why? What is the status of this property? Who owns it?

sc4mayor · PostJul 25, 2020#1432020-07-25T01:32+00:00

^ Millennium still owns it and has had many developers look at it. But no one can make the numbers work. I’m sure they’d offload it in a second if someone offered them something for it.

DogtownBnR · PostJul 25, 2020#1442020-07-25T02:33+00:00

As much as I want to keep the tower,
I’d sacrifice the entire complex for a signature tower. If it’s underwhelming, the tower needs to stay. In cities that revolve around their downtown, this property would have been snatched up a long time ago.

Trololzilla · PostJul 25, 2020#1452020-07-25T07:19+00:00

As long as a revolving restaurant exists Downtown in some way, I'm fine with either a reno or demo. Sure, they may be cliché and a bit tacky, but there's just something special about the experience of a revolving restaurant at sunset/nighttime in the urban core of a city.

chriss752 · PostJul 25, 2020#1462020-07-25T22:20+00:00

I would definitely demo the shorter building and the smaller "wings" for something better. The main tower could be integrated into a new structure that builds the property up to the sidewalk. Maybe this structure can house some parking as well as retail space and amenity space for the complex. The exterior would be renovated and probably would lose the current color scheme. The main tower would remain a hotel and the restaurant up top could reopen. The interior would have to be overhauled and made "modern" in terms of hotel standards but I'm sure it would work.

Where the shorter building is currently, a new residential building can be built there. Maybe up to 25 floors depending on the height limit of the property.

chaifetz10 · PostJul 26, 2020#1472020-07-26T00:30+00:00

jshank83 wrote: ↑
Jan 04, 2018
Nice update on the Hotel.

https://www.bizjournals.com/stlouis/new ... nnium.html

I managed to get into it without a subscription. It is long but here are some highlights.

“I think if someone just came up and offered pennies for it, the owners would probably take it,” said hospitality consultant Gary Andreas, with H&H Consulting in Chesterfield. “Nobody can make the numbers work to take on that property.”

“I’ve heard comments that just to cure the deficiencies and bring it back to a hotel would cost $100,000 per room, so that’s $80 million just to have the shell to put a hotel in,” he said.

“That was back in 2014 and we put forth what we thought was a financially viable plan that would have renovated the existing complex and repositioned it as a mixture of multifamily and hospitality,” he said. “But I think it came down to a decision where they were going to make an investment for that project or somewhere else in the world. And St. Louis didn’t rank as high relative to its other properties in around the world.”

Millennium has been shopping the property since it closed the hotel. Andreas said about half a dozen developers have looked into redeveloping the facility.

“My recommendation was to tear it down. It was built rather inexpensively and the infrastructure just isn’t that good. It’s a great location for something new, but I haven’t heard anything since they contacted me.” Bob O’Laughlin said.

“They were amenable to having us include the property in that package (Amazon),” Williams said, noting he’s hopeful a plan may emerge for the facility in the near future. “In the last six to nine months, we’ve seen them being receptive to phone calls and interactions with developers. I think they have an interest in doing something.”

Nearby development could help fuel a plan for the abandoned hotel.

Just bumping this response to highlight many of the answers to the questions being asked again here. If it cost that much to renovate ($100k / room) back on 2018, I can only imagine it's gone up over the last two years as things continued to deteriorate and break. And based upon Bob O'Lauglin's analysis, the infrastructure wasn't even worth saving as is.

For all intensive purposes, this building sounds like it needs to be demo'd. The only problem is that there's plenty of empty buildings and parking lots downtown as is. My guess is that this will sit empty for another 5-10 years and then be demo'd by a speculative investor who's willing to turn the land into a parking lot, generating some cash flow from Cardinals / the Arch grounds until they flip it.

JJ Rivera · PostAug 24, 2021#1482021-08-24T21:13+00:00

I found this thread and I was just watching the news and does anyone knows anything about the Millennium Hotel? News said the LLC is from Texas but whoever buys the building a demo must likely will happen to bring a new tower up.

Any buyers or is the LLC has mentioned any rehabs or demolition?

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Laife Fulk · PostAug 24, 2021#1492021-08-24T21:30+00:00

The search bar at the very top will help you find older threads. This is the one for the Millenium: millennium-hotel-t10036-s125.html

JJ Rivera · PostAug 24, 2021#1502021-08-24T21:34+00:00

Laife Fulk wrote:The search bar at the very top will help you find older threads. This is the one for the Millenium: millennium-hotel-t10036-s125.html

Thanks! I didn’t find one.

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sc4mayor · PostAug 24, 2021#1512021-08-24T21:44+00:00

That building will be on the St. Louis waterfront for years to come.

RockChalkSTL · PostAug 25, 2021#1522021-08-25T01:01+00:00

Yeah, I wouldn't be surprised if nothing happened with that building before 2030.

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ldai_phs · PostSep 23, 2021#1532021-09-23T19:53+00:00

How bad is this building inside

chriss752 · PostSep 23, 2021#1542021-09-23T19:55+00:00

I know the shorter building is in much worse shape than the high-rise. Even the high-rise has issues on the uppermost floors (mold, trees/plants growing on the roof). Lobby space seems maintained since you can see it from the highway.

dredger · PostSep 23, 2021#1552021-09-23T23:38+00:00

^ Wishful thinking on my part, but take the Millennium & the parking garage between it and BPV and IMPLODE it all. Start with a clean slate for BPV East. Talk about an ideal site for Corporate HQ, new residential and a future JW Live Marriot overlooking the Arch w a spruced up 7th street corridor w straight beeline to upgraded Convention Center.. I'm assuming BPV Phase III 2CW will be announced soon & maybe, maybe some additional office in northeast corner (ok, more wishful thinking). But going all in on BIG after Cardinals win world series this year.

Millennium Hotel Site Redevelopment

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