Great idea! I'd even settle for an apartment conversion with a Starbucks and Chipotle on the 1st floor.urban_dilettante wrote:
"maybe we can get starbucks and chipotle to move their respective headquarters into the millennium?"
- 3,757
- 2,620
With such a signature location in the city, and visibility from Busch Stadium, I am extremely surprised that this project has taken so long to materialize. An ideal project in my opinion would involve demolishing everything besides the main cylinder. Have it stick out of a 5-7 story residential pedestal that better compliments the Broadway. Start with that, but lay the groundwork for a second signature tower to pop out of the space that compliments the original. The tower (which could be built later as demand increases) would offer fantastic views of the Arch and rest of the city.
- 3,757
Just curious.... Who currently owns the building? If there is not a solid plan for the building, why is the current owner not putting it on the market? How can the City allow such a prominent building in the City, visible on TV during every Cards game and visible to everyone crossing the Poplar, to sit empty??? What would the City's involvement be, in pushing the owner to make a move? Seems to me that the City would be pushing hard to get something done here. I guess there are 2 ways to look at. Either the owner and City are taking their time, to make sure they get it right or it is taking forever because the property is not marketable or sellable, in it's current form. I sure hope it is not the latter. I only ask these questions, after sitting at Busch last night, staring at the dark, hulking tower, overlooking Busch Stadium. It just baffles me, that this tower sits empty, in such a prime and prominent location.
- 11K
^ For whatever it's worth, my bet is starting to tip toward demo.
- 1,054
If this building gets the dynamite, nothing will go in it's place. The site will sit empty.
- 3,757
^^ Would the City allow demo, without a viable plan? That would be absurd to allow that to become an empty lot.
In going back, reading the 2014 article, Millennium Hotels and Resorts still owns it.
http://www.stltoday.com/business/local/ ... b2efe.html
In going back, reading the 2014 article, Millennium Hotels and Resorts still owns it.
Clearly, the exploring is still going on. . . or maybe not....Millennium is “exploring all options” on what to do with the site, Williams added. Real estate experts have said a sensible approach could be to renovate and reopen part of the structure as a hotel and convert the rest to residences.
http://www.stltoday.com/business/local/ ... b2efe.html
- 2,430
^ Just checked on the city site and property taxes were $572,000 for 2013 and dropped to $293,000 for the 2015 tax year.
As far as the City's interest, I'm not sure how much of a priority it is/should be compared to other key vacant/underutilized buildings with redevelopment potential... beyond ensuring the owners keep it in secure, I'm not sure it can do much until a redevelopment plan comes along that it can assist with. In the meantime, hopefully the city will be plenty busy assisting redevelopments like the Jefferson Arms and Railway Exchange and attracting tenants for One ATT.
As far as the City's interest, I'm not sure how much of a priority it is/should be compared to other key vacant/underutilized buildings with redevelopment potential... beyond ensuring the owners keep it in secure, I'm not sure it can do much until a redevelopment plan comes along that it can assist with. In the meantime, hopefully the city will be plenty busy assisting redevelopments like the Jefferson Arms and Railway Exchange and attracting tenants for One ATT.
- 40
Last I heard Millennium Hotels has no interest in selling the site or redeveloping it. This comes from someone who was putting together a deal to purchase the site but was quickly shot down by Millennium.
- 3,757
^Based on that, the only thing they can do is reopen it or let it rot.
I don't understand. What's in it for Millennium Hotels if they just let it sit there?DogtownBnR wrote:^Based on that, the only thing they can do is reopen it or let it rot.
- 6,117
Land bank the thing? Cut costs to a minimum and sit on it to sell it later when the market is better? I'd have thought leaving it open would have been cheaper, but the taxes would probably have stayed higher, and maybe they don't want it affecting their brand. Good question that. Why does any developer leave a serviceable building vacant? (Often to the point of becoming un-serviceable.)erina wrote:I don't understand. What's in it for Millennium Hotels if they just let it sit there?
- 3,757
There has to 'something' local and regional government can do to motivate Millennium Hotels to do 'something' besides let a landmark building rot away in a prime and prominent location. Especially if there are interested buyers. I know it is not illegal to sit on vacant property to recoup money, but this is like a welcome mat for the City and on TV, dark and desolate, every night on Cards broadcasts. Frustrating!
- 1,868
Increase taxes on vacant properties.DogtownBnR wrote:There has to 'something' local and regional government can do to motivate Millennium Hotels to do 'something' besides let a landmark building rot away in a prime and prominent location. Especially if there are interested buyers. I know it is not illegal to sit on vacant property to recoup money, but this is like a welcome mat for the City and on TV, dark and desolate, every night on Cards broadcasts. Frustrating!
^ Sorry Mark, while I can comprehend the sentiment but I see the idea of adding taxes on vacant property as nothing more than wishful thinking that somehow adding a financial burden on property that adds no value to said property somehow convinces an owner to expend even more capital when their is no demand on said property. On top of that, added taxes on vacant property only takes away capital from the owner.
..
The issue is their not enough demand and will be decades to realize full potential or the need to develop all the vacant property/empty lots in a city with the infrastructure that once supported 800,000 people. Instead, the difficulty as discussed and debated is the balancing act of incentives that encourages development, jobs and more residents while not destroying tax rolls.
..
The issue is their not enough demand and will be decades to realize full potential or the need to develop all the vacant property/empty lots in a city with the infrastructure that once supported 800,000 people. Instead, the difficulty as discussed and debated is the balancing act of incentives that encourages development, jobs and more residents while not destroying tax rolls.
Raising taxes on an empty building just encourages the owners to tear it down.
- 1,868
Well, in my imaginary scenario, tearing down the building wouldn't reduce the tax penalty. I guess it's basically just something like, set a property tax hurdle amount. If you aren't able to get that much value out of the lot, then sell it to someone who can, or let the city seize it.framer wrote:Raising taxes on an empty building just encourages the owners to tear it down.
Edit: I guess I'm proposing a land-value tax.
Our you thinking in terms or along lines of a VAT, value added tax? However, that sounds like a litigation nightmare where the only winner would be the lawyers while property and taxing authority duke it out over the actual land value. Where as VAT like a sales tax is applied at point of sales where market has determined value and the VAT is a percentage on that value.MarkHaversham wrote:Well, in my imaginary scenario, tearing down the building wouldn't reduce the tax penalty. I guess it's basically just something like, set a property tax hurdle amount. If you aren't able to get that much value out of the lot, then sell it to someone who can, or let the city seize it.framer wrote:Raising taxes on an empty building just encourages the owners to tear it down.
Edit: I guess I'm proposing a land-value tax.
- 1,868
I'm definitely not thinking of a VAT, isn't that a form of sales tax? LVT is a property tax on unimproved land value.
God, the Millenium would make some awesome apartments. Great views, cool design. Why the hell isn't the owner exploring a sale? It seems like they just want to sit on the property.
Heard from a friend in the CVB that the hotel owners are waiting for the completion of the arch grounds before selling the property. Surely for more money then ????
While I'm not usually a fan of Brian Hayden's, I think this would be perfect.
1) While the building is NRHP eligible and has been nominated, I would rather it's not listed. I think the exterior could use some improvements that NPS wouldn't approve of.
2) Hayden already has at least two event spaces in his other buildings, he would make good use of the ballroom (from what I've heard, largest in STL), the lobby spaces, and hopefully get the restaurant reoccupied. No matter what, I really want the building's unique lobby and ballroom to remain open to the public, even if only for special events.
3) Most of his projects have been conversions, rather than full renovations. The building is in good shape relative to most other high profile downtown projects.
1) While the building is NRHP eligible and has been nominated, I would rather it's not listed. I think the exterior could use some improvements that NPS wouldn't approve of.
2) Hayden already has at least two event spaces in his other buildings, he would make good use of the ballroom (from what I've heard, largest in STL), the lobby spaces, and hopefully get the restaurant reoccupied. No matter what, I really want the building's unique lobby and ballroom to remain open to the public, even if only for special events.
3) Most of his projects have been conversions, rather than full renovations. The building is in good shape relative to most other high profile downtown projects.
The problem with this site is the massive amount of debt on it... like more upside down than the AT&T tower.
Nice update on the Hotel.
https://www.bizjournals.com/stlouis/new ... nnium.html
I managed to get into it without a subscription. It is long but here are some highlights.
“I think if someone just came up and offered pennies for it, the owners would probably take it,” said hospitality consultant Gary Andreas, with H&H Consulting in Chesterfield. “Nobody can make the numbers work to take on that property.”
“I’ve heard comments that just to cure the deficiencies and bring it back to a hotel would cost $100,000 per room, so that’s $80 million just to have the shell to put a hotel in,” he said.
“That was back in 2014 and we put forth what we thought was a financially viable plan that would have renovated the existing complex and repositioned it as a mixture of multifamily and hospitality,” he said. “But I think it came down to a decision where they were going to make an investment for that project or somewhere else in the world. And St. Louis didn’t rank as high relative to its other properties in around the world.”
Millennium has been shopping the property since it closed the hotel. Andreas said about half a dozen developers have looked into redeveloping the facility.
“My recommendation was to tear it down. It was built rather inexpensively and the infrastructure just isn’t that good. It’s a great location for something new, but I haven’t heard anything since they contacted me.” Bob O’Laughlin said.
“They were amenable to having us include the property in that package (Amazon),” Williams said, noting he’s hopeful a plan may emerge for the facility in the near future. “In the last six to nine months, we’ve seen them being receptive to phone calls and interactions with developers. I think they have an interest in doing something.”
Nearby development could help fuel a plan for the abandoned hotel.
https://www.bizjournals.com/stlouis/new ... nnium.html
I managed to get into it without a subscription. It is long but here are some highlights.
“I think if someone just came up and offered pennies for it, the owners would probably take it,” said hospitality consultant Gary Andreas, with H&H Consulting in Chesterfield. “Nobody can make the numbers work to take on that property.”
“I’ve heard comments that just to cure the deficiencies and bring it back to a hotel would cost $100,000 per room, so that’s $80 million just to have the shell to put a hotel in,” he said.
“That was back in 2014 and we put forth what we thought was a financially viable plan that would have renovated the existing complex and repositioned it as a mixture of multifamily and hospitality,” he said. “But I think it came down to a decision where they were going to make an investment for that project or somewhere else in the world. And St. Louis didn’t rank as high relative to its other properties in around the world.”
Millennium has been shopping the property since it closed the hotel. Andreas said about half a dozen developers have looked into redeveloping the facility.
“My recommendation was to tear it down. It was built rather inexpensively and the infrastructure just isn’t that good. It’s a great location for something new, but I haven’t heard anything since they contacted me.” Bob O’Laughlin said.
“They were amenable to having us include the property in that package (Amazon),” Williams said, noting he’s hopeful a plan may emerge for the facility in the near future. “In the last six to nine months, we’ve seen them being receptive to phone calls and interactions with developers. I think they have an interest in doing something.”
Nearby development could help fuel a plan for the abandoned hotel.