Absolutely.goat314 wrote:^ Ive been an advocate for citywide form based code for the longest. No reason a 100% urban, densely built city of 61sq miles couldn't be unapologetically urban in a region that is unapologetically suburban.
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This is an argument for getting involved. I had never heard of one until Dan Helmuth a volunteer committee member and an architec with a specialty in green development brought it up. He gets the credit for coming up with the idea. Dan Krasnoff of PCD did most of the work with the city staffs.By the way, the form-based code (and hopefully its spread across the city) is absolutely, certifiably brilliant! I've featured it a couple times and tried to diffuse some misunderstandings some have of the process, code and outcome. Thank you for pushing for this.
We were being reactive with developers and having trouble articulating our vision of a dense neighborhood. The plan has the consensus of the neighborhood and makes us more proactive. Going forward--it will help establish our "brand" as a car optional neighborhood. We hung a sign on ourselves that density (in some areas) is welcome.
I was at the as-usual crazy busy Brentwood Target this last Saturday afternoon. By the front door (in front of the Starbucks) were 18 to 24 college aged kids, all with multiple bags of purchases waiting around. A SLU shuttle bus pulled up, dropped off another 2 dozen students and loaded all the other students.
All this sales tax revenue would be staying in the city at a Federal Mogul site store instead of going into the pocket of Brentwood.
All this sales tax revenue would be staying in the city at a Federal Mogul site store instead of going into the pocket of Brentwood.
This is interesting. I assume very few of the local developers were born and raised in the city or urbanized inner ring? i.e. they were white flight babies at least a generation removed from city life. Are there local developers that live in the dense parts of the city and understand the concept?We were being reactive with developers and having trouble articulating our vision of a dense neighborhood. The plan has the consensus of the neighborhood and makes us more proactive.
It could be nothing: but survey crews have been all over the Federal Mogul site since Monday.
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^ Or it could be something.... let the speculation begin!
Seriously, I think this has to be a can't-miss development with IKEA coming in across the street. The only question is what we're going to get and how much of an urban sensibility the site maintains.
Seriously, I think this has to be a can't-miss development with IKEA coming in across the street. The only question is what we're going to get and how much of an urban sensibility the site maintains.
My first thought was MoDOT since they were between the highway and the south wall Monday and Tuesday. But today there were two crews well away from the highway on the north and south sides.roger wyoming II wrote:^ Or it could be something.... let the speculation begin!
Seriously, I think this has to be a can't-miss development with IKEA coming in across the street. The only question is what we're going to get and how much of an urban sensibility the site maintains.
Someone is measuring for something.
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^ Looks like it.... Midtown Station hopes to announce tenants this fall.
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I could see the city getting it's first Trader Joe's in Midtown Station maybe sporting goods store such as Academy or Scheel's which would be new to the Saint.Louis market
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Sifting through this i hope this turns out to be more like a KC plaza than some suburban strip joint. I think thats a big missing link in St.Louis if we could actually build something as beautiful as KC's plaza would be awesome but its wishful thinking
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Don't get your hopes up.RedOctober wrote:Sifting through this i hope this turns out to be more like a KC plaza than some suburban strip joint. I think thats a big missing link in St.Louis if we could actually build something as beautiful as KC's plaza would be awesome but its wishful thinking
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Even something resembling the Boulevard -- maybe even some office instead of residential for the upper floors -- would be an impressive win for the site but it looks like it 'ain't gonna happen.
^ You look at Pace proposes for MidTown Plaza and you wonder how they ever came up with The Boulevard development before hand, then you scratch your head after you realize that the original Boulevard development had a phase III residential tower. I become more dumbfounded each passing day why they won't even entertain mixed use for this site. A booming CORTEX would support much more leasable space at this site than what is being proposed.
While highly unlikely, I truly wonder if Pace has non compete clause or even handshake deal with CORTEX/City on residential, hotel and office space at this site as per their IKEA deal.
While highly unlikely, I truly wonder if Pace has non compete clause or even handshake deal with CORTEX/City on residential, hotel and office space at this site as per their IKEA deal.
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Its not just dreaming. The city already made a big compromise on form for the IKEA. They need to hold the line on Midtown station. If there is some enviromental reason that necessitates low density uses they need to be clear about it. Otherwise they need to tell PACE to take a walk and wait for a better proposal. There is a IKEA right next door to this site forgodsake. Make them work for it.
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^ At one point I thought maybe environmental contamination may nix residential at the site, but I did see a pre-recession story about a plan to put mixed-use residential in there. I think office/retail could also work on the site somewhat similar to the newer of the Highlands building.
^^Fair point. But this is on a horrific industrial site which has been abandoned longer than many of us can remember. How long should the City hold out and reject non-urbanist proposals while the hulking rust-bucket that is Federal Mogul sits empty?
Considering the proximity to SLU, proximity to Metrolink (Grand and future Boyle stations), envisioned biking/greenway improvements, and all of the residential development going on it the area, I think mixed-use is a no-brainer and I'm all for it. But I'm not sure that is enough to prevent a different, less urbanist vision for the site from moving forward.
If a Target, Panera, Jos. A. Bank, Commerce Bank, Foot Locker, FedEx Office, and a dry cleaners wee lined up to fill out a new suburban-style parking-centric shopping center should the City stop it from happening? They just let a CVS open on Lindell three blocks north (albeit with some changes to save the AAA building and front the street).
Considering the proximity to SLU, proximity to Metrolink (Grand and future Boyle stations), envisioned biking/greenway improvements, and all of the residential development going on it the area, I think mixed-use is a no-brainer and I'm all for it. But I'm not sure that is enough to prevent a different, less urbanist vision for the site from moving forward.
If a Target, Panera, Jos. A. Bank, Commerce Bank, Foot Locker, FedEx Office, and a dry cleaners wee lined up to fill out a new suburban-style parking-centric shopping center should the City stop it from happening? They just let a CVS open on Lindell three blocks north (albeit with some changes to save the AAA building and front the street).
So it's been over half a year... anyone know of any movement on this? The only hits Google returns are from 2014 at this point.
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^ Biz Journal, etc. have had a couple small mentions recently.... nothing concrete but that it's in the retail pipeline.
Smells dead. Probably won't pop back to life until after IKEA opens.roger wyoming II wrote:^ Biz Journal, etc. have had a couple small mentions recently.... nothing concrete but that it's in the retail pipeline.
I think this is accurate, but I think that's somewhat expected. And also not a bad thing.dweebe wrote:Smells dead. Probably won't pop back to life until after IKEA opens.roger wyoming II wrote:^ Biz Journal, etc. have had a couple small mentions recently.... nothing concrete but that it's in the retail pipeline.
The latest plans we saw didn't look all that great, and they probably would have been accepted because "it's better than what's there now."
Now, IKEA itself may not be the most urban design either, but it's presence is going to increase demand in that area. And I think a new midtown station proposal following IKEA's opening is likely to a lot better as a result.
I'd be totally shocked if that area sat undeveloped long after IKEA opens, so I'm not too worried.
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I'm pretty sure this project isn't dead.
Pace is in the process of seeking letters of intent from retailers. I've heard of one that might have signed, but I don't have confirmation. Once letters are in place, then you'll have environmental remediation, demolition and construction.
Not sure whether you noticed the Pace Properties sign they added to the building that fronts Vandeventer.
Pace is in the process of seeking letters of intent from retailers. I've heard of one that might have signed, but I don't have confirmation. Once letters are in place, then you'll have environmental remediation, demolition and construction.
Not sure whether you noticed the Pace Properties sign they added to the building that fronts Vandeventer.
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^ I would be floored if it were dead... it is almost impossible for retail not to follow IKEA; I think the only question is the extent and design. And here is one of the recent articles I was thinking of above... again nothing specific but still getting bandied about.
http://stlouis.cbslocal.com/2015/04/29/ ... ouis-city/
I could be wrong, but I vaguely remember reading not too long ago a broker or somesuch mentioning a possible fall start for the project taking more concrete shape.
http://stlouis.cbslocal.com/2015/04/29/ ... ouis-city/
I could be wrong, but I vaguely remember reading not too long ago a broker or somesuch mentioning a possible fall start for the project taking more concrete shape.
Sorry, when I agreed with dweebe's post, I was agreeing to the part about things happening after IKEA. I didn't necessarily believe the project was dead so much as moving slowly. I expect it to change and pick up steam after IKEA opens.
Maybe dead was too harsh a term. Deep hibernation would be more correct.jstriebel wrote:Sorry, when I agreed with dweebe's post, I was agreeing to the part about things happening after IKEA. I didn't necessarily believe the project was dead so much as moving slowly. I expect it to change and pick up steam after IKEA opens.