2,821
Life MemberLife Member
2,821

PostOct 08, 2008#251

jambalaya wrote:If you are correct (which thankfully you are not) and homelessness is an issue that cannot be solved...
Interesting. Of course homelessness can be solved on a case-by-case basis, but the overall homeless condition?



If someone is fundamentally mentally unstable, whatever the reason, what are the options really? There are ultimately only two. You can confine them in an institution, give them treatment and medication...and then what? Keep them there for the rest of their lives? Is society prepared to do that, from either a cost or human rights standpoint? Because if not, then you ultimately have to release them to their own care and means.



When that happens, 9 times out of 10 they will stop taking the medication which is necessary for them to maintain some level of coherence, or the medication makes them incapable of holding a job, or they start consuming alcohol and drugs again to help them get through the day, and so on. The majority of such people cannot control their own actions, and unless someone is watching them every hour of every day noone else can either. And then at this point, they become a danger to themselves and others, so they are impossible to house, and it is unfair to put them with others that have a legitimate opportunity to get back on their feet. Then you either confine them again in an institution, or push them out onto the street.



Americans don't like hearing that there is no solution to something, but no amount of money will resolve the above conundrum anytime in the near future. The only possible solution is to try to prevent the environmental causes of mental instability, drugs for example, and cure genetic causes such as schizophrenia, but we are a loooong way from having the technology or knowledge to do that.



I see no evidence that Larry Rice cares about any of this. At best, even assuming his intentions are good, the only part of this cycle in which he seems remotely interested is the "housing" portion.

6,775
Life MemberLife Member
6,775

PostOct 09, 2008#252

jlblues wrote:
jambalaya wrote:If you are correct (which thankfully you are not) and homelessness is an issue that cannot be solved...
Interesting. Of course homelessness can be solved on a case-by-case basis, but the overall homeless condition?


Now you know why jambalaya has withdrawn his claim.

1,137
Expert MemberExpert Member
1,137

PostOct 09, 2008#253

This article covers what a "real" advocate for homeless like St. Patrick's can do to solve a problem:

http://www.kmov.com/topstories/stories/ ... ae693.html



Interestingly, this also highlights the "all talk no substance" statement from Rice. That man (which this thread is really about) promotes homelessness and does NOTHING to solve it.



Promotes? Yes. These are the people who fulfill his agenda of building the Rice empire. IF the homeless were not there, the donations, etc would stop.



Does Nothing? nuff said. Some people may argue he provides a "bed for the night". Please read earlier pages as to the "conditions".

2,929
Life MemberLife Member
2,929

PostOct 09, 2008#254

Religious-based discussions


Jesus said, and I may be paraphrasing, that we (humankind) will always have the poor, when referencing as to how we are limited to His, and our, temporal mortality. While the second part of His intended statement is debateable as discourse of thoelogical, philosophical, and dogmatic interpretations & acceptances, I ask that we focus on Larry.



The problems with endemic poverty are timeless in human civilized societies. No nation, country, or empire has ever seen its populaces bereft of the empoverished and homeless. The question is how we accept this fundamental fact; as 21st Century Americans, we choose to help them. However, while the vast majority choose to help through St. Patrick's Center, and the other noble groups of similar nature, Larry's NLEC continues to capitalize upon the empoverished to self-elevate Larry, in his own interpretation, to moral superiority, and then seeps this visage to his misled flock. All the while, he promotes conditions of squalor and bereft abuse so foul that I'll bet the darkest cell in Gitmo is cleaner by bacterial count and number of fluids left on the floor. In the name of public health, Larry's menace must be gone so the homeless can actually receive help that can improve their lives, not just a cot and a bologne on white.



And to reiterate the religious undertones of the above postings:

We will always have the poor.

We don't always have to have Larry around.

I'm pretty sure that's how Jesus would want it.

214
Junior MemberJunior Member
214

PostOct 13, 2008#255

After working this weekend in the park several of the people familiar with Larry's operation said that there was another serious assault at his facility.

One woman stated that a woman was beating her pretty badly and at one point was "stomping on her head" and that she had to be taken away by ambulance. The woman stated that the person attacked was one of Larry's "workers".



SLMPD confirms that there was the following from

http://safecity.slmpd.org/MapMain.htm

Reported As Serious Assault

DateTime 2008/10/09 15:30:00

Address 1400 block of LOCUST ST

Area Downtown West

District 4




Additional information from Chris Rice's blog (Larry's son), while no direct reference to NLEC, I have to assume that it's related.

http://justthischris.wordpress.com/2008 ... s-me-sick/

6,775
Life MemberLife Member
6,775

PostOct 13, 2008#256

Stop attacking Larry. He is a christian and is helping those people. Perhaps that lady asked to have her head kicked in. :roll:

1,137
Expert MemberExpert Member
1,137

PostOct 13, 2008#257

Give a man a fish, you feed him for a day.

Teach the man to fish, you feed him for life.



Of course Larry has an abridged/modified version of this:



Give a man a fish, with pre-conditions attached of promoting NLEC and begging on the streets instead of trying to find jobs, you promote your cause and feed him for a day, though completly robbing his dignity



Teach a man to fish and NLEC has no more people to take advantage of and Larry has to retire with a few millions he has stashed that could have been used to better the life of these people.

214
Junior MemberJunior Member
214

PostOct 13, 2008#258

Here's a link to yet another attack at Larry's NLEC.



http://blogs.riverfronttimes.com/stlog/ ... e.php#more

PostOct 14, 2008#259


PostOct 14, 2008#260

And additional info here at KMOV



http://www.kmov.com/topstories/stories/ ... fdafd.html



and at KTVI

http://www.myfoxstl.com/myfox/pages/New ... geId=3.2.1



This goes back to what we've been saying all along... we want a clean, safe, environment.

PostOct 14, 2008#261

From the mayor's website:

http://www.mayorslay.com/desk/display.asp?deskID=1094


Not everyone is yet on board. New Life Evangelistic Center, one of the highest profile homeless service providers in the region, still refuses to cooperate with other agencies and continues to provide the sorts of services that some experts believe do more harm than good to homeless people. And there are, of course, a few well-intentioned handwringers.


He's right on the money on this one.

3,311
Life MemberLife Member
3,311

PostOct 14, 2008#262

Slay, grow a D and shut this shelter down. It's POSSIBLE that SkyHouse might have been a success if it wasn't planned next to this nightmare of a shelter.

181
Junior MemberJunior Member
181

PostOct 14, 2008#263

From the RFT


Rice says he's now planning to hire an additional security guard for the women's floor of his shelter maintains, though he maintains that no amount of security could have prevented last week’s incident.



"That woman just flew off the handle," says Rice. “But then that's the risk my courageous staff takes every day in providing shelter for people turned away from other places. You’d think maybe the loft dwellers would recognize that and not shoot themselves in the foot. Without us here these people would be sleeping in the parks and on the loft-dwellers’ doorsteps.”


Wasnt that the same response when other violence has happened at NLEC?



WHO said anything about Loft Dwellers?, it is like he has to shift blame somehow on downtown residents



I love the TAGS associated with the story, they seem appropriate



Tags: Angry, Attack, Chainsaws, Crime, Downtown, Downtown Residents, Homeless, Larry Rice, New Life Evangelistic Center, Pamela Fraction, St. Louis, St. Louis Police Department, Violence

2,076
Life MemberLife Member
2,076

PostOct 14, 2008#264

STLDTFAN wrote:


Teach a man to fish and NLEC has no more people to take advantage of and Larry has to retire with a few millions he has stashed that could have been used to better the life of these people.


Oh, stop your self-righteous bull.

1,137
Expert MemberExpert Member
1,137

PostOct 15, 2008#265

bprop wrote:
STLDTFAN wrote:


Teach a man to fish and NLEC has no more people to take advantage of and Larry has to retire with a few millions he has stashed that could have been used to better the life of these people.


Oh, stop your self-righteous bull.
Not self righteous. Just right.

Never have I claimed to be righteous. We all have vices. To leverage someone's vulnerability to further his agenda is Rice's. Why does that statement upset you bprop?

214
Junior MemberJunior Member
214

PostOct 15, 2008#266

From Springfield, MO's News-Leader...



http://www.news-leader.com/article/2008 ... 007/NEWS01


"This most recent attack confirms what we've been saying to the public all along -- people aren't safe in those facilities," said Mary Byrne, who opposes Rice's facility for homeless veterans being located near Central High School in Springfield. "Larry Rice does not have the qualifications or the staff to appropriately provide intervention for these people or security for the surrounding neighborhoods."

2,076
Life MemberLife Member
2,076

PostOct 15, 2008#267

STLDTFAN wrote:
bprop wrote:
STLDTFAN wrote:


Teach a man to fish and NLEC has no more people to take advantage of and Larry has to retire with a few millions he has stashed that could have been used to better the life of these people.


Oh, stop your self-righteous bull.
Not self righteous. Just right.

Never have I claimed to be righteous. We all have vices. To leverage someone's vulnerability to further his agenda is Rice's. Why does that statement upset you bprop?


Because it's conjecture at Rice's intentions, and brings up yet again his supposed but unproven wrongdoing in "retiring with a few millions he has stashed." Why is proving your allegations of Rice's personal financial gain so difficult? Is it true that if you say it often enough, you can wish it to into reality?

1,137
Expert MemberExpert Member
1,137

PostOct 15, 2008#268

bprop wrote:
STLDTFAN wrote:
bprop wrote:

Oh, stop your self-righteous bull.
Not self righteous. Just right.

Never have I claimed to be righteous. We all have vices. To leverage someone's vulnerability to further his agenda is Rice's. Why does that statement upset you bprop?


Because it's conjecture at Rice's intentions, and brings up yet again his supposed but unproven wrongdoing in "retiring with a few millions he has stashed." Why is proving your allegations of Rice's personal financial gain so difficult? Is it true that if you say it often enough, you can wish it to into reality?
I will not deny conjecture on my part. However, this is a derivative of some logical thinking regarding the fact that NLEC is a tax free enterprise and finances are not reviewed independently. NLEC DOES have 40-50 mil in assets by their own count. Who has "access" to that? Rice.

If you could take those assets and apply them to "really" make a difference by providing managed care for their homeless, rather than a "bed", it might be more beneficial. Please note that I also understand some of those assets are the real estate assets he owns. The WHOLE point of this argument has always been, to truly "take care" of the homeless, liquidate some of those high value assets (that are not being kept up anyway) and provide the shelter where he could get a lot more space and have free cash to truly provide value.

This can be viewed as the loft owners saying NIMBY, BUT, this is also a valid solution to truly help the homeless. What is more important? Holding high value unkempt assets and rob the homeless dignity, or providing high value CARE?

212
Junior MemberJunior Member
212

PostOct 15, 2008#269

I doubt that Larry Rice is sitting on stacks of money, and I would be curious what ratio NLEC listed assets are tied up in real-estate holdings (I doubt the $40-50 million dollars in assets you claim have anywhere close to that value today). I have no idea what his vision is for NLEC, but I have been involved with institutional clients (schools, airports and hospitals) who sold off real estate assets only to realize in the future what a huge mistake this course of action was concerning the fulfillment of any shared vision or mission statement for the specific institution. I am sure you doubt NLEC has a vision for the future, but again you would be leaning on conjecture and a completely subjective opinion.

1,137
Expert MemberExpert Member
1,137

PostOct 15, 2008#270

jambalaya wrote:I doubt that Larry Rice is sitting on stacks of money, and I would be curious what ratio NLEC listed assets are tied up in real-estate holdings (I doubt the $40-50 million dollars in assets you claim have anywhere close to that value today). I have no idea what his vision is for NLEC, but I have been involved with institutional clients (schools, airports and hospitals) who sold off real estate assets only to realize in the future what a huge mistake this course of action was concerning the fulfillment of any shared vision or mission statement for the specific institution. I am sure you doubt NLEC has a vision for the future, but again you would be leaning on conjecture and a completely subjective opinion.
I think the only known fact is that NLEC on record (as of '04) has 40-50 mil in assets. Real estate is just a part of it. We are "both" making assumptions as to what the NPV of those assets is and also of ownership.

NLEC has a vision. You and I disagree on what that vision is. I respect your opinion, but have my own. We can agree to disagree on what that vision is.

I still see no reason for holding a prime real estate, keeping it in a gutted condition and not do anything to provide means to "solve" homelessness (which I think you are calling NLEC vision), rather than liquidating it and providing services with that liquidity somewhere else.

212
Junior MemberJunior Member
212

PostOct 15, 2008#271

I think your opinion obviously has some validity and presents concerns that need to be addressed for several reasons (public safety being one). I do not pretend to know what or if NLEC has a vision for their ministry - I sure hope they do, but I have not seen a published vision or mission statement from NLEC. My point was, if they do have a larger vision for the future of NLEC, maybe these real estate holdings will provide the means to attain these goals (you are correct I am making an assumption here as well). I only know after working with my institutional clients they are usually working toward future goals. I hope NLEC has a goal which will satisfy all impacted parties.

214
Junior MemberJunior Member
214

PostNov 07, 2008#272

Anyone with information concerning the murder in the park last night are encouraged to contact the St. Louis Metro PD.



http://www.ksdk.com/news/local/story.as ... 38&catid=3

PostNov 12, 2008#273

Larry Rice lies again...



http://www.ky3.com/news/local/34299439.html



So like his "free store" down there (where a woman was raped and nearly beaten to death)....or Miss Virginia who was nearly beaten to death, or the fatal stabbing, or the chainsaw attack, or the multitude of assaults, beatings, and police calls that occur in and around his buildings.

6,775
Life MemberLife Member
6,775

PostNov 12, 2008#274

gopher wrote:Larry Rice lies again...


In other news, the sun set in the west tonight...

214
Junior MemberJunior Member
214

PostDec 05, 2008#275

Anyone know if Larry's NLEC has a permit for this?

If so, wonder how they're "protecting" their clients, neighbors, and "volunteers".



http://martello.org/blog/2008/12/permit_for_this.html

Read more posts (724 remaining)