urbanSTL

stlcardsfan wrote:It is possible to place a barricade in the form of an ornamental gate or someother barrier in the recessed area associated with the two half walls located on Olive. This doesn't distract from the main entrance at all

That's funny. Nothing says "Welcome to the neighborhood!" like concrete barricades in your face. Even if the barricade is "ornamental", it ultimately promotes exclusion and elitism. People shouldn't feel as if they need a reason to use our streets.

stlcardsfan wrote:Having more people around doesn't equate to safety.

So do you think the opposite? The more people we discourage from using our street, the safer we'll be? I feel much more comfortable using a street where there are signs of life and activity, even if that means car traffic.

MattnSTL wrote:I don't know anything about crime problems since I don't live there, but in my educated opinion this situation is being overblown.

I moved to GS before the barricades were installed, and haven't witnessed any crimes at all. Most of the crimes I heard about were auto thefts/break-ins, except for a couple of cases where people had items stolen from their garages when they left the door open. What kinds of crimes are these barriers supposedly protecting us from?

stlcardsfan wrote:Bump-outs have proven in the past to be ineffective.

How so?

stlcardsfan wrote:
Do we really want the GS area to become the route for Schnucks trucks again?

Can we put up signs saying "No Truck Traffic", or are these only allowed on private streets? Or maybe we can discourage truck traffic by narrowing the street at select locations? I'm sure we can find a way to do this discourage trucks without blocking off the street altogether.

Excellent points, Zezuz.

Olive WAS quite a well traveled street, and could be called a minor arterie. I don't know the age of all the posters on this thread, but I remember Olive as being a very well traveled street having many small businesses on it, mixed with residential.

Remember, St. Louis has lost a great deal of density here, therefore in the decades that followed, traffic naturally decreased, so what we've been left with for the past 15 or 20 years is a nearly deserted neighborhood/street scene with little traffic. Rebuilding the city would call for restoring what was once there rather than try to change it.



I still maintain that if you want to live in private, gated communities, then the city is not likely the place you want to be...that is, of course, unless you can afford a home on Westmorland or Portland Place (there are exceptions, few, but very few. These should be kept and cherished, but no more created.) Please, let's not build fake, elitist gated communites that poorly attempt to emulate that which the truley wealty hath wrought (you're really not fooling anyone), or change the functions of city streets out of unfounded fear.

quoting stlcardsfan: (from a few posts above)



Unfortunately, this idea was not shared during the most recent meeting at city hall because the Gaslight HOA was not aware of the meeting where this proposal was debated



gaslight HOA??? perhaps if that as well was not "exclusive" to residents in one block, (ie, including those of us in 4100 gaslight), you would have known.



4100 and 4200 should start working together instead of separately ......

I agree that we should all be working together. As you may not know, the developers of both Gaslight Square and Gaslight Square East intended to have 2 separate associations. In fact, you can find your covenants on the web. It was the setup that was handed to us when we moved in so we have tried to deal with it.



Also, you should know that the 4200 block was established before most neighbors on the 4100 block moved in so we had to form a network to deal with issues in the neighborhood. Obviously, it makes sense to re-think that issue since we have more neighbors now to share discussion with regarding the neighborhood.



However, it should be clearly pointed out that the issue of HOAs was not initiated by the residents of 4200. I keep reading comments like we are some sort of devils that just plot against the community. It is so incredibly ridiculous. There are so many block associations in the central west end. We organized ourselves to deal with the safety issues along the street months before neighbors along 4100 even moved in. We could have done a better job getting to know you and make you feel welcomed. Maybe that was our mistake but it wasn't intentional. We were simply learning our way around.



Since that time, we have invited the residents of 4100 block (and other surrounding blocks) to meetings and block parties. I have not received a single invitation from residents along the 4100 block. This should work in both directions.

Zezuz wrote:

stlcardsfan wrote:
Do we really want the GS area to become the route for Schnucks trucks again?

Can we put up signs saying "No Truck Traffic", or are these only allowed on private streets? Or maybe we can discourage truck traffic by narrowing the street at select locations? I'm sure we can find a way to do this discourage trucks without blocking off the street altogether.

Roundabouts everyone, roundabouts.

SoulardD wrote:Roundabouts everyone, roundabouts.

Like we discussed a few posts back, roundabouts have been suggested. We were told the intersection was too small, even for the smallest roundabout. We even discussed putting a roundabout somewhere in the middle of the block (like Westminster), but the bumpouts make the street too narrow.

I think they're just trying to dismiss your suggestions. Go to Park avenue about a block west of Tucker. They're are a couple of roundabouts in tiny intersections. I guarantee they are no bigger than any intersection in GS. You'll have to cut out rounded sections in the curbs, but it's not going to cut out anyone's lawn or anything.

where on the web are the covenants for associations? id love the link and if in fact they must be set up this way, then i guess we have to deal with it. but i would imagine we could take some proactive steps and make it work as one association. seems silly to have two separate assocations for a two block area when the goals are most likely the same.



the minute we have a block party or association meeting, we will be sure to invite our neighbors. there havent been any to date!

Good idea. I bet we could make the association work well between the two blocks. Honestly, its a nice reason to get people together and catch up with whats going on. We haven't been the most organized either. It will be nice when we can get better organized.



Any idea what's going in the SelKirk building?

stlcardsfan wrote:I bet we could make the association work well between the two blocks. Honestly, its a nice reason to get people together and catch up with whats going on.

I completely agree. I think we'll be able to accomplish so much more once we start working together.

stlcardsfan wrote:Any idea what's going in the SelKirk building?

The building is starting to look good from the outside. It looks like they're nearly finished repairing the brick and could put in new windows any day now. I'm excited about getting 10 new neighbors in the second-floor apartments. I'll try to post some pics this week. I still haven't heard anything definite about the first-floor retail.



Has anyone seen any renderings for the two proposed condo buildings across the street from the Selkirk building? Any news on the restaurants/venues going in the Dove Cafe space? I don't think they've even cleared out the space yet.

Selkirk building: they are really having trouble getting any interest due to the barricades being there. they had a bank interested but they withdrew. the sooner those barricades come down, the faster things will progress. ive talked to some residents in 4200 olive that they really dont want any retail there because of traffic concerns and concerns that they dont want to "smell grease" from any potential restaurant. (seriously)



condos across the street?: i think the lot will sit vacant until the other 8 units sell. progress has been made tho as 4114 and 4120 Olive have sold in the last few days. they recently seeded the lots at the southwest corner of olive and sarah as well as the northeast corner of olive and whittier trying to grow grass.



Dove cafe: havent heard or seen anything, but seems like a great opportunity for someone.



where on the web do we find the homeowner association covenants?

stp1975 wrote:ive talked to some residents in 4200 olive that they really dont want any retail there because of traffic concerns

stp1975 wrote:they dont want to "smell grease" from any potential restaurant

How frightening. I really don't understand why they live in the city.

I really don't understand why they live in the city.

One good thing about the City is that there are neighborhoods suitable for most lifestyles.

I think people like this move to the city because it's "cool", "the thing to do". Any big city has noises, traffic, smells and other things that might "offend" the senses of people that want "quiet and fresh air". Really, are these people so eager to be "cool" that they don't even think of such things, then when they move in have the effrontery to want to cut off their neighborhood from its surroundings to suit them? I'm amazed that people would think that living in densly populated cities would not expect to get a whiff of the restaurant a couple doors down, put up with traffic on their street or "strangers" walking past their front door. What dummies.

If they don't want to put up with these "unpleasant" facts, then they should get out of the city, and the hell with being "cool", because it takes a lot more than an address to make one "cool".

I can certainly understand people wanting to be and feel safe in their own homes --- if you cant feel safe at home, where can you? and obviously, something had to be done about the supposed speeding traffic down olive. the barricades were a temporary "fix" that unfortunately have had a pretty stifling effect on further development. 4100 is selling, but at a much slower pace than originally.



aside from historical pictures ive seen, i dont really know what gaslight was like recently - like 5 years ago, but i do think the development that has taken place has really been good for the city and the neighborhood overall. granted, its not retail and clubs like it was in its heyday, but any development that brings people back to the city i think is basically good.



i do wonder though why some of my neighbors moved to the city when i hear complaints about traffic, potential retail and the possibility of the smell of grease wafting down the street. the funniest thing is the complaints i hear about traffic in the alleys. well, if the street were open, we wouldnt have to travel through the alley.



but the overall development i think is great! it will all work out, eventually.

You're safe and secure in your home if you take the precautions that anyone normally takes. (Oh, I know, there are exceptions, but exceptions apply to nearly any rule or any place.) Polarizing a neighborhood is not taking precautions...its showing others that for some reason you really don't want to part of the rest of the community.

You can find the indentures on the Saaman website at http://www.saamandevelopment.com/GSE1/documents.php.



I am sure we all can think of great retail to place in the building. A bank doesn't rank on the top of my list of preferences. With the removal of the barricades at Whittier, the area around the Selkirk building will open up. Also, having a direct link to Lindell will be nice too. I am okay with having a bit of "grease" smell in the air if it is a quality business. Someone mentioned a Starbucks. That would be cool but how many coffee houses can we really support in the area. I am wondering if a restaurant will survive without having other retail closeby.



How reasonable are the prices for the open units? I haven't really paid attention.

thanks for the link.......will get to work!



as far as prices go, im not sure. i know they lowered the price on one building (because there arent double sinks in the master bath) but other than that, they have kept them where they were. i think anything with a decent amount of options is selling at around 340-350K.



i agree that we dont need another coffee house (i want 6 north to survive!) but would love something laid back like that where people can gather.

Here are a few pics from the neighborhood:



#1 - Selkirk Building





#2 - Selkirk Building





#3 - Townhouses on Olive & Vandeventer





#4, 5 - Olive & Vandeventer - one of my favorite buildings in STL







#5, 6, 7 - other buildings on Olive east of Vandeventer









#8 - Centrex Electrical building on Washington & Vandeventer. Anyone know what's going on with this building? The brick really looks good underneath.

Interesting on the Centrex Buildings--I went to their web site and they still have that address as their location. Must be a exterior rehab!!







http://www.centrexelectric.com/index.htm

Thanks for the new pics, Zezus. I've always liked the building in numbers 4 & 5 too. Looks like it maybe used to be a theater or a performance hall of some sort (but I don't know). It will be nice when some new infill starts to pop up on that block of Olive.



I've also noticed that a HUGE old house on the Southwest corner of Vandeventer and (I think) Westminster seems to be undergoing rehab. Anybody know anything about it? Is this a SLU project, perhaps?

That has been undergoing rehab since early spring, but I have no idea what for.

I've always loved those buildings in nos. 4&5 as well. Part of it was torn down fairly recently, which is a shame. I don't know if it's impacted by the Grand Center development corp., but it seems hard to believe that it's been vacant as long as it has.



I'm also surprised that the boarded-up apartment building has been vacant for so long. Kohner owned it for a while, but I'm not sure who currently owns it. Its proximity to SLU makes it a no-brainer for student apartments.



Whatever happened to plans for the "Media Box?"



http://www.urbanstl.com/viewtopic.php?t ... ight=media