Any one else notice how great the new row of houses look at the corner of Sarah and McPherson? Because of the brick, stonework and diversity of design this group of town homes looks nice no matter which angle its viewed from. I just love what has been accomplished on a once desolate plot of ground.
i love the cartoons! too funny.
lets do it!!!
in all seriousness --- i hear there is a meeting next week (again) because no one can seem to come to a resolution over what to do. i guess since weve come to an impasse, i think the law requires the barricades to be removed (according to the ordinance - they were temporary for 6 months).
lets do it!!!
in all seriousness --- i hear there is a meeting next week (again) because no one can seem to come to a resolution over what to do. i guess since weve come to an impasse, i think the law requires the barricades to be removed (according to the ordinance - they were temporary for 6 months).
Just got a letter in the mail from Alderman Kennedy. He basically says that while he doesn't typically "support or like" street blockages, he recognizes that our area is a "diverse area with diverse needs." He's organizing a gathering at the Youth Technology & Educational Center (YTEC) at 4471 Olive on Wed., Sep. 13 at 6:30PM to discuss street flow, traffic problems, and possible solutions. Everyone in the surrounding area is welcome to attend - he wants to be as "inclusive" as possible.
I was on my way to the CWE last monday for lunch, and decided to drive through this area to check out the progress...since it's been a while for me. Driving through Gaslight is a nightmare because of the blockades. But Gaslight isn't alone. Much of the CWE is cut up with these blockades that leave you limited options for getting into the business district there.
Would development in surrounding areas pick up if these blockades were all removed? I think it would. CWE is bustling, and it's gotta have room to grow.
Would development in surrounding areas pick up if these blockades were all removed? I think it would. CWE is bustling, and it's gotta have room to grow.
trent wrote:Would development in surrounding areas pick up if these blockades were all removed?
I think development would really pick up on the 4300 block of Washington if the street was opened up to Boyle. There are some interesting loft houses for 475K currently being built on that block, but they feel so disconnected from the rest of the neighborhood.
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I just moved into the 4100 block of Olive Gaslight Sq and I am confused about the issue of barricades. One of the reasons I bought on the street was the lack of traffic. Without the barricade at Whittier, the street would be like Lindell--which is not the kind of environment I'd want to buy property. Rental maybe. Can someone tell me what harm the barricades are doing? Other streets have barricades, for the same reason, I assume.
reasonable - i too live in the 4100 block but unlike you, i moved here before the barricades were up. one of the reasons i bought here was because i liked the idea of a cohesive neighborhood unit like gaslight square. the minute the barricades went up, it lost that feeling --- and created lots of resentment by people like myself that we werent consulted nor do our opinions seem to matter. so a lot of it has to do with that.
aside from that issue, if you read the above pages you will see many of the concerns people have brought up. some of them include the stagnation of development in this neighborhood and others, the strange traffic flow patterns they create by diverting one blocks traffic problem onto all of the surrounding streets and alleys. most people in the neighborhood arent opposed to the idea of barricades, just to their random placement smack dab in the middle of a 2 block development / neighborhood.
hopefully, someday the entire neighborhood can come to a resolution that works for everyone, not just a small minority (now)
aside from that issue, if you read the above pages you will see many of the concerns people have brought up. some of them include the stagnation of development in this neighborhood and others, the strange traffic flow patterns they create by diverting one blocks traffic problem onto all of the surrounding streets and alleys. most people in the neighborhood arent opposed to the idea of barricades, just to their random placement smack dab in the middle of a 2 block development / neighborhood.
hopefully, someday the entire neighborhood can come to a resolution that works for everyone, not just a small minority (now)
reasonable wrote:I just moved into the 4100 block of Olive Gaslight Sq and I am confused about the issue of barricades. One of the reasons I bought on the street was the lack of traffic. Without the barricade at Whittier, the street would be like Lindell--which is not the kind of environment I'd want to buy property. Rental maybe. Can someone tell me what harm the barricades are doing? Other streets have barricades, for the same reason, I assume.
It would seem to me that barricades could work for the short term while a neighborhood is undergoing transition. In the short term, barricades could function to prevent drivers from using the street as a raceway, while nearby parrallel streets are undergoing construction or need repaving. Furthermore, barricades could work for the short term in reducing crime by eliminating fast getaway routes when adjacent blocks are completely burnt out.
However, that said, barricades for the long term are horrible for the neighborhood. (1)They prevent the natural upward progression that adjacent property would undergo if it were more connected to the "good side" of the barricade. Want reduced crime?--then encourage development of nearby property. Walling yourself off from it doesn't help. (2)Connectivity. They litterally sit in the way of one of the city's great advantages-a street grid that is easy to navigate with good connectivity in all directions. This also impairs local retail growth because of a lack of access. (3) Perception from outsiders. This will ultimately lower your property values as your neighborhood will appear as though it is in such a dangerous area that you need to barricade yourself into a hole. These types of things are huge red flags for (many) suburbanites looking at the city. (4) Increased traffic. Thats right, as you eliminate street grid connectivity, you'll end up with a suburban style setup where all neighborhoods empty out onto mega streets (ala lindbergh ave. in Florissant *shudder*). These streets will become overflowed with traffic, slowing travel time and a drive anywhere a pain in the a$$.
That's a basic rundown of my reasons for hating the permanent barriers.
for those interested, the meeting on wednesday with the alderman and all the residents of the surrounding area kind of became a "complaining" session about life in the city. ie, traffic, crime, people running stop signs etc. there were quite a few who were there to voice the fact that those things COME with life in the city.......but of course, the naysayers whined a lot and want to erect as many barricades as possible to keep everyone out. so stay tuned.......the saga of a divided gaslight continues.
I wonder what those people would have thought of Gaslight the way it was when it was a thriving entertainment district.
- 11K
Can someone please enlightent me as to why one would choose to purchase the condo in the first picture instead of the home in the second? the first is in the Gaslight Square area and is listed for $280,000. The second is on McPherson in the CWE and lists for $285,000. None of them have radiator heat, etc. And before anyone points to HVAC efficiency etc., my point is that there's a substantive difference in these buildings. Asthetics and craftsmanship is something someone can feel even in a photograph. I'm guessing that some just want everything new and granite everywhere - others may think that anywhere outside a new development isn't safe . . . any other ideas?
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[EDIT] This is probably better for a new topic in urban living - can I start this or does a mod need to intervene? Good point re: Gaslight Square. I am impressed with some of the homes built in that area, just not the one above!
[EDIT] This is probably better for a new topic in urban living - can I start this or does a mod need to intervene? Good point re: Gaslight Square. I am impressed with some of the homes built in that area, just not the one above!
Different strokes for different folks.
Some people prefer new, low maintenance houses. Some people prefer old houses with lots of character.
Nothing sinister or surprising here.
Actually, I think you should have started a new thread about new vs old. It could be an interesting topic, but as it is, added to the Gaslight Square thread, it is likely to become a thread to bash this particular development. Enough of it that has been done already. Not fair or productive in my option.
Some people prefer new, low maintenance houses. Some people prefer old houses with lots of character.
Nothing sinister or surprising here.
Actually, I think you should have started a new thread about new vs old. It could be an interesting topic, but as it is, added to the Gaslight Square thread, it is likely to become a thread to bash this particular development. Enough of it that has been done already. Not fair or productive in my option.
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That 100-plus year-old, red brick house on Maryland is large (5 bedroom) and beautiful! I think it must need some interior work, since no interior photos are shared. Plus, another home on the very same block, if not next door or two doors down, at 4263 Maryland is listed for $448,900, or more than double that of the 4257 Maryland affordable beauty. After all, the $449k home shows interior photos, and an amazing interior at that, while the adjacent$209k home does not. So again, my guess is you're buying a fixer-upper for over $200k! But that's the CWE for you.
- 11K
The $209k home has been edited out - I found the same pic (home) listed for ~$700k+ a couple blocks away - the realtor seems to have mixed up the photos . . .
Exactly. I chose a home in the neighborhood b/c (1) I'm not handy and (2) I don't have the time to maintain an older home. Also, some people in the neighborhood work at SLU, and like having a few blocks shorter of a walk.Expat wrote:Some people prefer new, low maintenance houses.
Maybe some feel this way, but many people I've met in GS have simply wanted to downsize from significantly larger homes in the CWE.Ihnen wrote:others may think that anywhere outside a new development isn't safe
A congenital lack of good taste.Ihnen wrote:Can someone please enlightent me as to why one would choose to purchase the condo in the first picture instead of the home in the second?
There's a meeting with Alderman Kennedy today at 6:30PM at 4471 Olive Street. I've heard rumors that some final decisions re: the barriers might be made today.
[EDIT] The meeting was moved to October 4, same time and place.
[EDIT] The meeting was moved to October 4, same time and place.
I think an excellent comprimise with this barrier issue would be something that would slow the speed of traffic, but not cut it off. There are many ways to successfully do this without barricades. Having a "pinch" that closes the street temporarilty to one lane combined with a rough stone area, or speed bumps would work well.
See http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Traffic_calming for more info.
-Brent
See http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Traffic_calming for more info.
-Brent
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^Yeah they discussed neck downs and other alternatives eariler in this thread. I think the aldermnan said there wasn't enough clearance....but that's from memory so you can go back and read to double check.
great ideas on "traffic calming". lots of possible solutions. at the last meeting three weeks ago there were actually some people from the 4200 block of olive who suggested the appropriate fix would be to put barricades on olive at BOTH Sarah AND Boyle.....in effect creating a private street. how ridiculous!
so, there is a follow up meeting tonight. hoping all urbanists and those who have better ideas can make it.
so, there is a follow up meeting tonight. hoping all urbanists and those who have better ideas can make it.
Unfortunately, I can't make the meeting tonight, as I have an exam. I'm frustrated b/c I have a feeling that we're going to end up with barricades at every intersection.
bhardy, I suggested speed bumps to Alderman Kennedy. He said that speed bumps can only be installed on private streets (e.g., in front of Metro High School).
This thread might get a lot more exciting soon - I just got the minutes from the Gaslight HOA and this website was mentioned. They want to make it known that the 4200 block of Olive adamantly supports the barriers.
bhardy, I suggested speed bumps to Alderman Kennedy. He said that speed bumps can only be installed on private streets (e.g., in front of Metro High School).
This thread might get a lot more exciting soon - I just got the minutes from the Gaslight HOA and this website was mentioned. They want to make it known that the 4200 block of Olive adamantly supports the barriers.
- 11K
Ah, the final nail in the coffin of what once once a thriving urban neighborhood! If the 4200 block's aparent love of keeping other out serves any purpose, it may be to double my resolve to not allow these monstrosities (the barriers, not barrier-loving residents) to remain in my neighborhood.
Can a single block of people keep/put barriers in place? What role does the city and alderman have? Certainly Mr. Stanley with the city should be interested in this . . .
Can a single block of people keep/put barriers in place? What role does the city and alderman have? Certainly Mr. Stanley with the city should be interested in this . . .
Well there are other options avalible. One would legal soultion would be to pass a law requiring the city to vacate a street before allowing barriers to be placed. Under such an option the St. Louis streets department would no longer be responisble for the upkeep of the street. If the folks on Olive want it done, then let them buy the street from the city and pay for the short term placement of barriers and long therm upkeep of the street.
If the residents had to stare down those costs, they might think twice.
If the residents had to stare down those costs, they might think twice.
oh boy i can hardly wait for the barrage to begin!
trust me.........the 4100 block doesnt want them and to my knowledge, we are one half of gaslight square. why they would put them right down the middle and not at the source of the problem - ie boyle (according to them) is beyond me.
trust me.........the 4100 block doesnt want them and to my knowledge, we are one half of gaslight square. why they would put them right down the middle and not at the source of the problem - ie boyle (according to them) is beyond me.