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PostAug 07, 2009#751

Doug wrote:
2. Of course. Operating a full size grocery store something completely different. He could no way provide the huge amount of product at a reasonable price. Hell, Schuncks already has their own Culinaria branded products.


Then why would he move to expand City Grocers into the Syndicate?



Or perhaps he could have done it at the dismay of critics who said he wouldn't sell any of his projects?



You're presupposing that he wanted to expand only to sell more condos?
Do you understand that Schnuck's has been operating grocery stores for hundreds of years, utilizes economies of scale, and likely has a lean supply chain? It is literally impossible for City Grocer's to compete against Schnuck's. Any rational actor would welcome lower prices, an expanded grocery selection, and a pharmacy that Culinaria brings to the table.



So please remind us why some peeps are crying again? The Century Building? Ok. Subsidies? Heller got them too. Don't like subsidies? Guess you don't believe in socialized health care, cash for clunkers, or affordable groceries. What are you, a fuggin conservative? ;)
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PostAug 08, 2009#752

Doug wrote:Then why would he move to expand City Grocers into the Syndicate?



Or perhaps he could have done it at the dismay of critics who said he wouldn't sell any of his projects?



You're presupposing that he wanted to expand only to sell more condos?


I think Salt said it well above:


the expansion was planned due to a continued vacuum in supply and a perceived increase in demand.
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PostAug 08, 2009#753

saltearth wrote:In this day and age (and in recent past) almost every project has received subsidies. Craig Heller and his compadres have benefited from a whole host of tax credits without which we would be looking at a bunch of really cool empty buildings. Retailers have opened and closed with the benefit of "incentives" as well. I think that the original move with City Grocers was a chicken/egg kind of deal, and the expansion was planned due to a continued vacuum in supply and a perceived increase in demand.



Either way, let's take a look at how far we have come, in spite of some challenging economic times, and celebrate these additions to downtown. City Gourmet should be a great counterpoint to Schnucks, and the depth of life on the streets downtown will continue to expand beyond Washington Avenue where most who are not really in the know still think everything is happening.



I think Craig should get the greatest credit for creatively, perceptively and responsibly recognizing and addressing demand issues that continue to advance the redevelopment of downtown. He lives it, works it, and seems never to be above it. I wish we had more of him at it - just think how much better off we all would be!


Hear, hear!
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PostAug 08, 2009#754

innov8ion wrote:
Doug wrote:
2. Of course. Operating a full size grocery store something completely different. He could no way provide the huge amount of product at a reasonable price. Hell, Schuncks already has their own Culinaria branded products.


Then why would he move to expand City Grocers into the Syndicate?



Or perhaps he could have done it at the dismay of critics who said he wouldn't sell any of his projects?



You're presupposing that he wanted to expand only to sell more condos?
Do you understand that Schnuck's has been operating grocery stores for hundreds of years, utilizes economies of scale, and likely has a lean supply chain? It is literally impossible for City Grocer's to compete against Schnuck's. Any rational actor would welcome lower prices, an expanded grocery selection, and a pharmacy that Culinaria brings to the table.



So please remind us why some peeps are crying again? The Century Building? Ok. Subsidies? Heller got them too. Don't like subsidies? Guess you don't believe in socialized health care, cash for clunkers, or affordable groceries. What are you, a fuggin conservative? ;)


Hundreds of years?
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PostAug 08, 2009#755

^ 70 years -- Which can seem like hundreds of years to Cub fans like me.
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PostAug 08, 2009#756

^Lifetime ban.
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PostAug 08, 2009#757

Doug = Century Building = Doug

It could be any store of any form going into this space and Doug would still be complaining because this is the space where the Century Building was. Well, it is 2009 - years since destruction and time to move on.



---



Went by the store today... the place looks fantastic.

I truly believe that this will reshape and redefine our downtown for the future. Looks like great outdoor seating, and outdoor food stands/flowers will surround the east ansouth sides of the building. I absolutely love the entrance foyer into the store on the corner - check it out!



Got a sneak peek at the food prices - no more than any other Schnucks and lots of specialty items too.



The layout is beautiful.







Recently went into several Jewel stores in downtown Chicago and it was much smaller, dirtier and cramped compared to this new store. I have also been inside KC's Constentino's market in Power and Light there and it is much much better than that. That store is beautiful but expensive and completely more fufu (much like our City Grocers is)... this store will serve STL like a regular store with a urban feel and offerings as well.







Going Monday night for preview - will get some pics then.
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PostAug 09, 2009#758

Speaking of the entrance, what is up with it? Is that corner really going to be the entrance, vs. the much larger set of doors in the middle of 9th St.? The "foyer" has a wide, automatic-open door into the grocery store, like you'd expect. But to get to the foyer are two standard-sized doors from the sidewalk. Neither opens automatically and neither has a disabled assist button. I thought they'd be re-doing that entrance (maybe removing the outer doors to create a covered area) but the grand opening is a bit close for that.
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PostAug 09, 2009#759

Hours are posted.



6am - 10pm everyday.



=D>
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PostAug 10, 2009#760

The entrance is just like any other supermarket - in/out and orderly from checkouts out.

The middle doors are not functionally located for the store layout.

I absolutely love the entrance interior... very urban cool.

As for the outside doors to the vestibule - we'll see what happens there - however... the elevators from the vestibule will take you directly to your car - no steps - even with your shopping cart.



BTW - I understand that Schnucks sale prices are the same downtown as anywhere. Cool!



The hours are great!!!
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PostAug 10, 2009#761

So Doug won't step foot into the new Schnucks because it stands where the Century Building was needlessly demolished a few years ago?



Gee, maybe I shouldn't go to any games at Busch (since they knocked down Hop Alley to build Busch II) or patronize any business that stands in the section of Midtown where Mill Creek Valley used to stand.



At some point you gotta let go of the past.
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PostAug 10, 2009#762

'Nuff said.


http://bit.ly/VW2We wrote:It addresses the need so well that City Grocers plans to immediately shift focus, said owner Craig Heller. It will close later this week and re-emerge Aug. 18 as City Gourmet, a quick-casual restaurant and specialty grocer. Heller, a developer who has rehabbed several office and condo buildings downtown, said the new Schnucks will boost the whole area.



"I didn't start City Grocers so I could be in the grocery business," he said. "I did it to try and build a better downtown. And downtown is better with Culinaria."
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PostAug 10, 2009#763

I'm sure the downtown hotels have got to also be happy. I don't know how many times (especially before Rams games) I've seen out-of-town visiting team sports jersey wearing tourists walking into City Grocers for supplies.



Plus I know a few times where we've been driving down to tailgate for a Rams game and we're almost downtown when we notice we forgot something. It will be nice to be able to pop in for those forgotten items at 8am on Sunday morning.


southsidepride wrote:So Doug won't step foot into the new Schnucks because it stands where the Century Building was needlessly demolished a few years ago?



Gee, maybe I shouldn't go to any games at Busch (since they knocked down Hop Alley to build Busch II) or patronize any business that stands in the section of Midtown where Mill Creek Valley used to stand.



At some point you gotta let go of the past.


I have a feeling that the only way Doug would be happy is for the garage mahal and new Schnucks torn down. And then the Century building rebuilt brick by brick to exactly the way it was before. Then he might be happy.
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PostAug 10, 2009#764

Maybe this will help Doug:



Craig Heller said:
"I didn't start City Grocers so I could be in the grocery business," he said. "I did it to try and build a better downtown. And downtown is better with Culinaria."


More:



http://www.stltoday.com/stltoday/busine ... enDocument
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PostAug 10, 2009#765

^I doubt he's going to say anything negative publicly or be attacked like I am. We also can't forget that his business was threatened by Slay.



I maintain that he would have expanded into the Syndicate if not for Stogel/Desco's demolition of the Century Building.



I won't shop at the store and I often mention that I'd rather have Hop Alley instead of Busch II/III. On the off chance I do attend a Cardinals game, I am sure to mention the story of Hop Alley and Sportsman's Park.



If we "get over it," selling out for placeless parking garages like these -- buildings that will never eclipse the marble clad Century Building, then these projects will continue. We had plenty of parking downtown and a plethora of vacant lots for new construction. No acceptable reason for this project exists, except that Mayor Slay had no vision, leadership, or capacity to accept alternatives.



Ignoring City Grocers, this could exist at OPO Plaza, formerly the site of several buildings including the St. Nicholas Hotel/Victoria Building. How many other vacant lots could have had the same project? How many existing buildings could have contained Culinaria?



The OPO District has been forever marred by the Slay Administration and no amount of positive press can fix that.



I don't care if this brings a thousand new residents. We could have done it better -- with the Century Building -- and attracted exponentially more.



But like everything in Room 200/230, we have little will to plan beyond the next election cycle.
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PostAug 10, 2009#766

Doug wrote:I don't care if this brings a thousand new residents. We could have done it better -- with the Century Building -- and attracted exponentially more.
Which exponent should we use? If we square one thousand, we'll attract one million new residents! If we cube it, that's one trillion!! If we take one thousand to the 97th power, we'll have a googol (1 x 10^100) new residents!$!$!$



Doug may be right, let's bring back the Century...
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PostAug 10, 2009#767

I don't think anyone is attacking you because of your opinion, doug. I think it's your dead-horse-beating that makes people want to bring you the pain.
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PostAug 10, 2009#768

Doug wrote:I won't shop at the store and I often mention that I'd rather have Hop Alley instead of Busch II/III. On the off chance I do attend a Cardinals game, I am sure to mention the story of Hop Alley and Sportsman's Park.


I bet it's a real treat to sit next to you. :roll:



Personally, I was in favor of tearing down the Century Building, in protest over the demolition of the building that was there before the Century Building.
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PostAug 11, 2009#769

The store looked awesome tonight... The meat counter looked especially great!



The downtown residents I spoke with were very disappointed that there are NO CARTS... Making it difficult for shoppers looking to purchase OJ, Milk, Soda, beer, and ice cream.



I applaud the Schnucks for going the extra mile on the store.



PS...I believe everything is on sale for the next 2 days.



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PostAug 11, 2009#770

Moorlander wrote:
The downtown residents I spoke with were very disappointed that there are NO CARTS... Making it difficult for shoppers looking to purchase OJ, Milk, Soda, beer, and ice cream.


Probably for the best. Keeps them from losing them to homeless/lazy people. Wonder why they don't just radio locks on the carts, or have them coin op? Probably still more cost effective to just make people use hand baskets. If you really have an issue I'm sure you can just order online and then pick it up later - or just wait until you're done to pick up the heavier objects.
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PostAug 11, 2009#771

Attending the VIP tonight and loved the store - going shopping in the AM at open.



CARTS???? The store has carts - shopping carts and baskets right at the entrance - they can go to the doors and all the way to your car in the parking garage if you wish via the elevators in the stores front vestible and entrance. LOTS OF CARTS - TONS OF CARTS.



Maybe Moorlander was speaking of no carts at City Grocers.



Spoke to Todd Schnuck and the prices in the grocery will remail exactly the same of any other Schnucks - all prices will not be increased and Culinaria will also feature the same sale prices as the Schnucks weekly ads.



So - I put it to the test - walking the aisles tonight and the prices are EXACTLY the same. Since I went to Schnucks Loughborough yesterday! Anywho... the sales were the same - the prices in all departments are the same on every item - I checked it... well maybe not every item (LOL) but the ones I purchased at Schnucks recently.



I love that - I can now do all my shopping downtown!

8)

PostAug 11, 2009#772

I should mention that the Kaldi's Coffee shop is a nice addition.

The seafood/meat/and pharmacy departments are fantastic.

The floral department is incredible - 4.99 a dozen roses - and tons of flowers - I love the outdoor flower shop/booths on the street as well as the outdoor quick market options on both the south and east sides of the building.



In addition... 7 check out lanes is fantastic!



Like I said before... this place is far nicer than urban markets like downtown Jewels in Chicago.



Cosentino's market in downtown KC is really overpriced on groceries and more like Whole Foods on pricing.



That is the beauty of Schnucks Culinaria - a Whole Foods / Trader Joes / Straubs / Schuncks all in one - but not overpriced on essentials!





Also got a little "birdie" news about the Syndicate first floor occupant in the works... national clothing chain. I read the article in the aper yesterday which quoted:


And that, he predicted, will bring more retailers. There's already a change in the climate, said Symsack, who is the broker for a block of storefronts around the corner from the new grocery. Interest in those properties has picked up, he said. He has one tenant who specifically wants to move there because Schnucks is next door.


and then I heard "Old Navy" tonight.... hmmmm. anyone else hear this?
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PostAug 11, 2009#773

Great, i will now do my shopping at the downtown Schnucks instead of my ghetto ass CWE store that is a few blocks away. I wish they would redo that one.. again.. very excited about the new schnucks downtown!
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PostAug 11, 2009#774

matguy70 wrote:
CARTS???? The store has carts - shopping carts and baskets right at the entrance - they can go to the doors and all the way to your car in the parking garage if you wish via the elevators in the stores front vestible and entrance. LOTS OF CARTS - TONS OF CARTS.



Maybe Moorlander was speaking of no carts at City Grocers.

8)


guess I misunderstood.
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PostAug 11, 2009#775

I shop Downtown whenever I can, especially at Macy's. I purchase most of my clothes at that location.



So the ends justify the means?



What if, for example, the Railway Exchange was slated for demolition for a newer Macy's, condos, and office space? This is a higher use than replacement parking. Would form members support that?



It's simply indicative of St. Louis' mentality to demolish a historic building for Schnucks with parking on top. If we had to lose the Century -- and I don't see any justifiable reason -- couldn't we at least have had a higher use than parking? Perhaps an urban use like residential?



Ignore the Century then and evaluate why we have Schnucks with parking on top with numerous lots, garages, and the fact that if this is supposed to support Downtown residents then they should be primarily walking.
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