urbanSTL

Washuslouser wrote:I have been out of town in the uk for a bit and noticing a lot of bike racks outside of grocery stores. Has anyone at schnucks been smart enough to think of putting racks outside. I live downtown and always bike to city grocers with my big city grocers reusable bag and always lock it to the parking meter or the lamp-post. As of last week, before i left, there were no bike racks outside, someone please tell me schnucks can splurge 200 bucks to put one in before it opens. Has anyone seen any?

I've always brought my bike into City Grocers and they've been wonderful to allow that. I hope Culinaria at least has racks, but I'll miss not being able to bring my bike inside.

I've been out of town for a week, but rode my bike over to Culinaria today to see how things are coming along and was pleased to see lots of outdoor tables and chairs on both Olive and 9th Street. It should really help liven those sidewalks and provide a sense of community. I'm really looking forward to the Grand Opening on 8/11.

I was downtown today, and I stopped into City Grocers. It will soon become City Gourmet and will offer some new things. A general list of changes is posted near the check-outs.

Culinaria will celebrate with a grand opening celebration August 11th at 9 am, and open its doors to the public immediately after. Culinaria will be approximately 21,000 square feet on the lower level and 6,300 on the top level. The store will feature a full service pharmacy and have a strong emphasis on prepared foods, grab-n-go sandwiches, pizza slices and other popular lunch items. In addition to the basic grocery items, Kaldi's Coffee and Benito's Gelato will be offered.

^ From the Downtown Buzz e-mail. Also:

City Grocers has been a part of the downtown scenery for nearly 5 years now. As the downtown market continues to evolve and grow, so does many of our new businesses. At the end of August, City Grocers will reposition itself and open as City Gourmet. Featured items at the new 6,000 square foot gourmet will include City Dining-to-Go, Bakery City Dragon featuring custom stir fry, Burrito City featuring a taste of the Southwest, espresso, fresh fruit smoothies, new beers with lower prices, a larger wine selection, additional dining space and much more. For more information, contact 314.621.0010.

-RBB

Matt Drops The H wrote:

Downtown STL Fan wrote:

Washuslouser wrote:I have been out of town in the uk for a bit and noticing a lot of bike racks outside of grocery stores. Has anyone at schnucks been smart enough to think of putting racks outside. I live downtown and always bike to city grocers with my big city grocers reusable bag and always lock it to the parking meter or the lamp-post. As of last week, before i left, there were no bike racks outside, someone please tell me schnucks can splurge 200 bucks to put one in before it opens. Has anyone seen any?

I've always brought my bike into City Grocers and they've been wonderful to allow that. I hope Culinaria at least has racks, but I'll miss not being able to bring my bike inside.

Does that comment mean you'll never support City Grocers again?

Considering City Grocers will cease to exist when Culinaria opens, I suppose it does, but I'll ceretainly support City Gourmet. My impression is that they'll have more tables inside, so maybe bringing my bike in won't work, but I'll wait and see.

Bike rack is now there on the 9th st. side along with more tables.

Fox 2 was interviewing people in front of City Grocers - I'd expect a story this evening.

And Channel 5 was there this evening.

Doug wrote:It's such BS. Craig Heller, one of the first, gets the shaft.



If we supported City Grocers then perhaps they could have expanded and we could have had a larger non-chain downtown Market. Maybe in 30 years we could have had a new local chain?



This entire project stinks. I will never shop at the former site of the Century Building. If people finally think Downtown is back simply because of Schmucks, then were all doomed to have Chesterfield Downtown!

It's funny that you are that upset over this when Heller never wanted City Grocers to be a long term solution. He has said in the past that the only reason he opened the place is because he thought he needed to to sell lofts. The number one question he was getting was where will I buy my groceries. So he opened theplace, hoping to bridge the gap until a grocery store opened...it now has, so in a sense his mission is accomplished. As I understand it City Grocers has been a loss leader from day one, but Heller felt he needed it to sell lofts, now he has schnucks, so the where do I buy groceries question is moot.



But hey, if it makes you feel better to be indignant, go for it. I personally welcome Schnucks (a local company) to the neighborhood.

^

Exactly, Mo.



I think City Grocers will be more viable as City Gourmet than it is as a grocery store. And the Culinaria will help strengthen downtown. It's certainly giving downtown more legitimacy as a neighborhood in the eyes of people who don't follow downtown as closely as we do.

Video of the store from the Post-Dispatch...



http://www.stltoday.com/blogzone/buildi ... peek-here/

Until you have lived downtown and actually tried to shop regularly at City Grocers, you can't really understand why people are glad to see a Schnuck's coming in.



I'm 100% for supporting local, and I shop at downtown retailers whenever possible. However CG is the only DT retailer where items run 100-200% more expensive than competing chain options. Literally, if I spend say $300 on groceries a month, for the same items at CG I would be spending $600-$900, AND would have to constantly go to the store because the quantities carried are so small. When the cost disparity is that great, no one is going to do their full shopping there to "support downtown".



CG was never meant to serve the full grocery needs of downtown, it was meant as a stop gap measure, and it worked. I will still patronize City Gourmet, I LOVE CG's desert selections and really hope they expand those offerings. I buy 2-3 desserts a week there, but my full shopping has to happen at Schnuck's. Sorry I don't have an extra $300-$600 a month to "support Craig Heller", and I'll bet if you lived DT Doug, you'd quickly learn it is not and was never feasible to do all of a household's grocery shopping there. I have never met even a single person who does that, even the wealthiest DT residents do not. Everyone uses CG and more of a convenience store grabbing 1-5 small items a visit. I admire your "support local" spirit, but on this issue you're looking a bit extremist.

Doug wrote:If Heller didn't really care about City Grocers then why did he want to expand into the Syndicate?

1. Because at the time no one seemed to be doing anything, so once again he probably said himself, "Crap now I have to step up again"

Doug wrote:You're saying he would rather simply let Schnuck/DESCO do this project, even though he himself wanted to expand City Grocers and redevelop the Century/Syndicate with McGowan: a plan he proposed and cost him a lot of grief?

2. Of course. Operating a full size grocery store something completely different. He could no way provide the huge amount of product at a reasonable price. Hell, Schuncks already has their own Culinaria branded products.



3. Why would you want to take your own biggest retail space that has the highest possibility to generate revenue, and turn it into another Loss Leader. (Once again operating one large grocery store, your margins would be almost nothing, probably negative.)

$1.7 million...$85/sq ft subsidy from the city. They really want to be our neighbor!

Like others have said, I get the impression that this (the opening of a Schnucks) is what Heller had hoped for all along.



Now City Grocers can evolve into something that is (hopefully) more profitable, while the Culinaria will make his lofts and office and retail space more marketable.

Doug don't you realize that this Schnucks is exactly what will help in the development of the residential infill towers that you long for?

In this day and age (and in recent past) almost every project has received subsidies. Craig Heller and his compadres have benefited from a whole host of tax credits without which we would be looking at a bunch of really cool empty buildings. Retailers have opened and closed with the benefit of "incentives" as well. I think that the original move with City Grocers was a chicken/egg kind of deal, and the expansion was planned due to a continued vacuum in supply and a perceived increase in demand.



Either way, let's take a look at how far we have come, in spite of some challenging economic times, and celebrate these additions to downtown. City Gourmet should be a great counterpoint to Schnucks, and the depth of life on the streets downtown will continue to expand beyond Washington Avenue where most who are not really in the know still think everything is happening.



I think Craig should get the greatest credit for creatively, perceptively and responsibly recognizing and addressing demand issues that continue to advance the redevelopment of downtown. He lives it, works it, and seems never to be above it. I wish we had more of him at it - just think how much better off we all would be!

I look forward to the opening and am curious to see how much grocery shopping I will be doing there. If the prices are comparable to a normal Schnuck's, then often! Unfortunately, the grocery dollar didn't go very far @ CityGrocer's.



The Louderman was one of Heller's first loft developments, so I can see how some of their residents might see Culinaria as a slight to their beloved. I sure don't. Thanks to Craig and CityGrocer's for providing a stop-gap grocery solution. They've helped us reach the level that brought a Schnuck's here.



I have come to understand that Craig Heller is primarily a loft developer -- CityGrocer's was just a tool to help sell lofts. That's something that some people have a hard time understanding for some reason.