urbanSTL

ttricamo wrote:I can absolutely understand the mistrust of the police, arch city. You'll not here me trying to argue with you on those points.

What is your position on the shooting of the black people in front of the justice building? And what is your stance or rampant black on black crime in general?

I'm not asking in attempt to deflect the behavior of bad police. I'm asking the question assuming both situations are mutually exclusive.

I would welcome an African Americans position on black on black crime.

I come from the thought that the term "black on black" crime is just as ignorant as saying "white on white" crime or "asian on asian" crime. In fact, the most violent areas on earth are places like Central America and Mexico where there are little to no "black" people. Until we as a society start racializing ALL CRIMES done ALL OVER THE WORLD by ALL PEOPLE, I really resent the term black on black crime.

Also we have to understand that "black on black" crime, especially of the violent nature, is something that most black people are unfamiliar with and is heavily concentrated in the poorest neighborhoods of the region. Most people that are involved in violent crime are part of some drug gang or criminal organization, most people in our poorest neighborhoods are still law abiding citizens that do the best they can with the little they have. In fact, poor African Americans are THE most religious and god fearing people in America. Unfortunately, it only takes a few dozen desperate thugs to give us 100 murders in a year. Keep in mind, most murderers are usually linked to multiple killings. It is not unusual to find out a gang member has committed or been associated with 5-10 murders.

My point being the average black person, who lives in the ghetto or suburbs, is just as scared of the bangers, dealers, and pimps as any middle class white family in west county. The "no snitching" thing evolves from fear of retaliation, not "wanting to protect a criminal", which is often pushed by right wing media and racists. That is why it is so important for the cops to have a working relationship with the communities they serve, even better if they live in that neighborhood.

I would also like to add, I think we need to really look at disperse some of our poverty. It is a shame that the city of St. Louis is responsible for most of the metros poorest, least educated, and homeless citizens. We could really eliminate the "ghetto" culture and cycle of poverty if we dispersed our poorest citizens. Many other regions have found out that concentrating poverty creates generational poverty and therefore high crime rates and hopeless ghettos like North St. Louis.

"all over the internet" sigh................So are sightings of bigfoot and space aliens. That's not the kind of company you want to keep, I assure you.

Ferguson and Shaw happened because St. Louis is starting to 'off load' its poor population. Poor blacks move to Ferguson because they think it will be better. People protest when they suddenly become more hopeful for the future. Did you notice how many of the 'protestors' in Shaw were white? It's because they want to protect what they have made there and the value of their property. Ferguson happened because its 'going black' and Shaw happened because its 'going white'. This is all happening because St. Louis is improving, not because its getting worse.

MatthewHall wrote:Ferguson and Shaw happened because St. Louis is starting to 'off load' its poor population. Poor blacks move to Ferguson because they think it will be better. People protest when they suddenly become more hopeful for the future. Did you notice how many of the 'protestors' in Shaw were white? It's because they want to protect what they have made there and the value of their property. Ferguson happened because its 'going black' and Shaw happened because its 'going white'. This is all happening because St. Louis is improving, not because its getting worse.

+1

Wow. Powerful stuff. So, yeah, can we agree to retire the term "black on black crime" on this forum at least?

arch city wrote:

TheNewSaintLouis wrote:Hey theres nothing better than living in the wild wild gateway to the west... Lets promote thug behavior & protest for justice..
Yet alone we the black people keep shooting up our own people it makes it easier for us to just blame everyone else for our problems let alone we now have all the police cornered to where we can get away with anything including murder of white people. Its not racism its just pay back for all the years you've killed our young black people then again we can kill one of our very own young black ladies who's on honor roll however her life doesn't matter cause she wasn't black enough. We the black people have no real priority cause we have the jesse jacksons the al sharptons the eric holders the antonio french's the jamilah nasheeds and the crooked pastors that will come quick to our defense to perpetuate and promote our criminal behavior. Note that other blacks that don't agree with us they just want to be white and deserve to be shot.

To me, there's been some unfortunate comments made on this thread, but this is the most stupid and racist comment I've read.

And you think somehow you are better.

You are a racist dunce and a imbecile contributor to the problem in St. Louis. You are not helping. You are fueling the fire with your DUNCITY (urban dictionary word). You are a perfect example of why St. Louis is receiving and is deserving of so much negative press. You are obliviously. You are a reason why it grows slowly and has a poor economy. Who wants to live next door to you?

For one Arch City how dare you call me or anyone on here a racist.. Try walking in my shoes for 33 years.. I dealt with a lot of bull crap not only from blacks ,whites ,and gays.. Ive also cared often too much of my life to see and watch people throw their lives away either to gangs drugs sexual & beyond . My heart/spirit is very giving to anyone of all cultures & yes it was meant with a lot of sarcasm but for you to judge say I'm a big problem in St.Louis you are absolutely incorrect .. I'll be 100% more St.Louisan than you'll ever be. Another i have more black friends than you'll ever have in your entire lifetime but does it matter no it doesn't at all what matters is that peace is brought to the entire region of St.Louis . Blacks aren't the only 1's guilty of race bait i know that for a fact 100% of all people who call this place home including leadership here are guilty. Im part black white indian & I'm gay The odds are against me to get harassed a lot more than others.. So for me to speak a bit of my mind & see what I've witness/experienced through my 33 years of being a St.Louisan isn't far from racism at all.. St.Louis is my heart St.Louis is in my blood but I'm tired of locals trashing it destroying bashing it doing their awful crimes here. I also believe the police job is to protect the community and far too many times people want to blame the cops for there actions how about taking responsibility for your own actions you reap what you sow. If witness's aren't willing to help the police find fugitives then the ending results will happen. Continued high to extreme crime & city that will be put on the brink.. I also believe in protest however theres a better way of going about it. Finally racism will never be put to rest if one side is only in agreement it takes all people to put too rest what has plagued not only St.Louis but all of this country for centuries to a cease..

arch city wrote:

ttricamo wrote:What is your position on the shooting of the black people in front of the justice building?

I think it's beautiful. Nothing like seeing the beautiful images of black people shooting one another near courthouses and the bullet casings and bodies they leave behind. I imagine it looked the same during the mobster decades in STL. Nothing like seeing freshly killed humans dangling out of car windows and lurched over steering wheels with brains and blood spewing everywhere.

ttricamo wrote:And what is your stance or rampant black on black crime in general?

My opinion is that it is worse to be a BOB criminal in the eyes of the criminal justice system.

If I were a criminal I'd definitely want to be white. White-on-white criminals don't shoot one another over drugs (like meth) in front of courthouses like BOB criminals do - at least not anymore. Criminal white gangs are more discreet too. Also, WOW criminals don't face disparities in sentencing. So the advantage for best drug and violent criminals goes to white people. Hands down.

ttricamo wrote:I'm not asking in attempt to deflect the behavior of bad police. I'm asking the question assuming both situations are mutually exclusive.

Oh, I never thought that at all.

ttricamo wrote:I would welcome an African Americans position on black on black crime.

We love BOB crime. What would we do without it?

So could you answer the question like an adult and not in such a sarcastic way. Its was an honest question by ttricamo. Also i believe archcity may removing repsonses as one of mine has already diappeared.

bigmclargehuge wrote:Also i believe archcity may removing my repsonses as one has already diappeared.

^Okay.

I'm not removing anything. It's not that big of a deal to me.

I'm listening to music and sipping on a B&J cooler, while answering y'all's "questions".

bigmclargehuge wrote:So could you answer the question like an adult and not in such a sarcastic way. Its was an honest question by ttricamo.

Not honest. To me, the questions are a stupid red-herring. The questions were answered like an adult. Too bad you didn't like the answers. Your problem. Not mine.

arch city wrote:

goat314 wrote:Many other regions have found out that concentrating poverty creates generational poverty and therefore high crime rates and hopeless ghettos like North St. Louis.

I agreed with almost everything you said, except the last few words.

North St. Louis isn't a ghetto. It constitutes near half of the city. I know North St. Louis well. Certainly, it has distressed neighborhoods and blocks and too high crime in some, unfortunately, but to call all of NSTL a hopeless ghetto is really offensive. I know it wasn't deliberate, but when people talk like that it breeds conflict.

I have taxpaying relatives and acquaintances living on many stable streets and blocks as well as within healthier NSTL neighborhoods. Some live more troubled neighborhoods too, but aren't bad people. I have a cousin who actually bought a home in NSTL's Penrose - after owning a home down the street from Antonio French - just ONE week ago.

Her and husband (empty nesters) almost bolted for St. Louis County, but decided to stay in the city because they got a good deal. She is in middle management at a large bank and he works for a large real estate company.

The vast majority of people in NSTL including my aunt, my brothers, cousins etc. are good people and who don't live in "the ghetto". They live in the city.

The whole of North St. Louis isn't ghetto, but to say a majority of the neighborhoods arent ghetto is disingenuous. North St. Louis is also blocky, some blocks are good and right across the street you can have a warzone.

By the way, I'm not an outsider...spent a good portion of my developmental years on Marcus and its gotten worst. Thugs run many areas and have ran A LOT of good people off. If crime was under control a lot more middle class blacks would live on the Northside. In my opinion, the Northside has the best architecture in the city, but vacancy, lack of retail, food deserts makes it ghetto looking and by a technical definition GHETTO! I also blame many of the alderman, no excuse for it to be in the condition it is in.

arch city wrote: I'm listening to music and sipping on a B&J cooler, while answering y'all's "questions".

Are you listening to your Foreigner cassettes while sipping on that wine cooler?

Hit pause and flip on the Cardinals game. It's time to root for the home team. I'm sure you are quite prideful of the fact that the Cards played for so many years right there in good old North Saint Louie!

Enjoy the game!

goat314 wrote:The whole of North St. Louis isn't ghetto, but to say a majority of the neighborhoods arent ghetto is disingenuous. North St. Louis is also blocky, some blocks are good and right across the street you can have a warzone.

By the way, I'm not an outsider...spent a good portion of my developmental years on Marcus and its gotten worst. Thugs run many areas and have ran A LOT of good people off. If crime was under control a lot more middle class blacks would live on the Northside. In my opinion, the Northside has the best architecture in the city, but vacancy, lack of retail, food deserts makes it ghetto looking and by a technical definition GHETTO! I also blame many of the alderman, no excuse for it to be in the condition it is in.

goat314, you need to go back and re-read what I wrote and read it slowly.

The reply was not disingenuous. By you now offering, "The whole northside isn't ghetto", that was my point to you in my initial reply. Although you clarified yourself, I want to reiterate the whole northside isn't a hopeless ghetto. Now that was disingenuous because you don't know everyone in NSTL. Like I said, I have middle-and-working class family members still living in NSTL. They didn't take the flight although they could have. They were/are hopeful.

While there are struggling neighborhoods and areas of NSTL feel like ghost towns, there have been a lot of rehabbing and infills in North St. Louis. That means there is hope. And while I have witnessed the decline over the years, largely due to black flight, I visit enough to see there is hope despite on-going challenges.



Also, for the record, NSTL has never had major retail - even when it was full of people and had way less decay, vacant lots and tumbleweeds. We had to shop downtown or on 14th St. We also went to River Roads, Northland and the then-open-air Northwest Plaza. The only department store in NSTL was Sears on N. Kingshighway. Then it closed and was bought by the Roberts Brothers.

NSTL with hundreds of thousands of black people - many middle-and working-class - only had a lot of "mom-and-pop", resale and dollar stores - like Ben Franklin. No K-Mart, Venture, FB, Stix, Montgomery Ward etc. etc. I wonder why?

Much of north St. Louis isn't a ghetto anymore because even the poor have left and its completely empty now. That's why the new real estate deals have been happening in the central corridor. That's why McKee was able to assembly all that land north of downtown. All the value has been 'extracted' and the only way is up. They see the negatives for property values moving northward away from central areas.

arch city wrote:

leeharveyawesome wrote:Are you listening to your Foreigner cassettes while sipping on that wine cooler?

Hit pause and flip on the Cardinals game. It's time to root for the home team. I'm sure you are quite prideful of the fact that the Cards played for so many years right there in good old North Saint Louie!

Enjoy the game!

Oh, the game is on? Who are they playing?



BTW, I am listening to Cee Lo's, "F You".

Not bad not bad. I don't see you winning any jonin' contests any time soon though, (quick link for white people on this forum who have been stumped by black terminology lately http://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=Joning).
Maybe another 4-pack of wine coolers and you might be ready.

NOW GO GET YOUR ***** SHINEBOX!!!!!

arch city wrote: Also, for the record, NSTL has never had major retail - even when it was full of people and had way less decay, vacant lots and tumbleweeds. We had to shop downtown or on 14th St. We also went to River Roads, Northland and the then-open-air Northwest Plaza. The only department store in NSTL was Sears on N. Kingshighway. Then it closed and was bought by the Roberts Brothers.

NSTL with hundreds of thousands of black people - many middle-and working-class - only had a lot of "mom-and-pop", resale and dollar stores - like Ben Franklin. No K-Mart, Venture, FB, Stix, Montgomery Ward etc. etc. I wonder why?

I disagree. Easton Ave/MLK Dr. was a pretty solid retail and commercial street. 14th Street wasn't insignificant either. I don't think there was any significant imbalance between the retail options in the southside and the northside, back in the day. The southside had Cherokee Street and the Famous on Chippewa. The northside had Easton and Sears. Downtown simply was where most of the major retail was located.

http://www.slmpd.org/crimestats/CRM0013-BY_201409.pdf

Sept St. Louis crime summary. Last page of pdf is the totals. Overall not the best month. Homicide up almost 80% with a YTD of almost +30%. The other troubling one is Business Burglary, up 450% in one category. Which matches up with stories of friends who work at small businesses, restaurants, etc. throughout the city.

Overall still a touch down for the year. Some good statistics in there and some very troubling ones also.

Both Mom's Deli and Fortune Express have been robbed near my house. And Fortune express is just a few yards away from Ted Drewe's. I hope things settle down soon or are brought under control, as we do not want people feeling unsafe living and shopping in South City.

As the people protest about excessive policing. 3 people shot in the Gate district. Come on people.

This is all a sign of real changes in St. Louis. I'm surprised that more of you don't see it. But, yes, part of this is very much the reconcentration of poverty in new places as new investment and the departure of poor blacks makes way for all the many new projects that have and are happening along the central corridor. The poor are being pushed away from central St. Louis and they know it. They know they can't stop it, but they sure as hell can vent sanctimoniously and take their chances at making a buck through various criminal activities.