urbanSTL

^ Well, that's overstating Doug. You're opinions are welcome here. Just keep the strawmen to a minimum. Latest example: no one has said that minorities have always been able to access loans.

Shopgirl10 wrote:You are incorrect in your statement. HUD provided loans to whites and minorities alike.

Whether in the past or today, facts do not support this statement. If you don't know about history then read a book or three. As for today, minorities were directed to sub-prime loans more than whites with similar credit histories. I'm sorry if some believe we live in a post-racial society, but that simply isn't the case. Resources are not allocated equitably. That has an impact on where crime occurs and community capacity to address it. The bootstrap argument does not apply when people are wearing worn sandals subject to usury in order to buy those boots.

^ Yikes. Seems like the very definition of 'person attack'. You had me until you went rogue with your btw.

shopgirl10 wrote:Doug my statement

Shopgirl10 wrote:You are incorrect in your statement. HUD provided loans to whites and minorities alike.

was referring specifically to the new McRee town. Stay on subject, please. I am not talking aout the last 50 years, I was adressing your statement that only whites were able to get loans when MBOT took over McRee.

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shopgirl10 - that's way over the line regarding personal attacks. Stop. (the personal attack has been deleted)

If they can't steal the NL Central they'll go for armored cars!

Since we're all off-topic, let me chime in and say that I'm beginning to really appreciate you, Doug, even though I at times fervently disagree with you. This is a real funny quote:

Doug wrote:Downtown anti-parking garage civil disobedience went too far today as a man jumped from a garage to his death. I would have chosen a more significant structure personally.

As for the quasi-institutionalization of race relations, predominantly of African Americans, based upon sustained socioeconomic realities of the 21st Century in the United States:

Dude, we know this. You don't need to harp to say that people born into underpriviledged poverty have it rough, including African Americans in cities that have fallen behind. After all, writers on this forum are generally smart, educated, and aware of how there are bad things as well as good things in society. And as far as I can tell, no one here wears white hoods & burns churches.

We get it. You're an advocate for those who you perceive don't have a voice, and that is commendable. You're not Tom Joad, but you'd like to be. But please, don't try to go derailing threads on topics that are beyond our simple scope. Sure, I'd like to personally elevate our society, and the nations of the world, into a quasi-Utopia where ethnicity never coincides with socioeconomic conditions, but that'll only come with the world being as advanced as Star Trek. I personally think that we can advance towards that 23rd Century world based on the actions we are currently taking today, but that's not going to come because of what may be "white guilt"- or "anti-Capitalism"-fueled diatribes.

As I mentioned in the "Wash Ave Clubs" thread, I'd prefer it if you'd start your own thread to discuss this instead of potentially hijacking other threads to discuss this. I'd happily debate you there on the merits of modern Capitalism. You can be Keynes, I'll be Freidman, and we'll let the dirt fly. Your move.

Back on topic: Cueto's receiving a 7-game suspension for his attacks on the Cardinals from the other night's brawl (each coach getting a 2 game suspension as well, plus fines for Carp and Rolen). I'd guess that's about right for attacking our team with his schoolgirl kicks in spikes, although I'd personally prefer it if Carpenter would be allowed to bean him in the gut with a fastball. That's parity.

And honestly, what kind of guy kicks people with spikes? If he was throwing roundhouses barefoot like Bruce Lee would, that at least would've been cool to witness. But stompy kicking? By a grown man? Who's a pro athlete? In spikes? To quote Billy Madison: That's assault, brother. What a tool box.

shopgirl10 wrote:Doug my statement

Shopgirl10 wrote:You are incorrect in your statement. HUD provided loans to whites and minorities alike.

was referring specifically to the new McRee town. Stay on subject, please. I am not talking aout the last 50 years, I was adressing your statement that only whites were able to get loans when MBOT took over McRee.

BTW- still would love to know what you would do if your rich white mommy and daddy did not support your unemployed rantings. Do mommy and daddy know how much you hate them and their lifestyle? Seems hypocritical to take money from them when they stand for all that you hate and protest against. Or is it different because they are your rich parents and you are the poor under-served man? Just wondering.

If you read what I posted:

This kind of arrogant vs. them, those people in the "slums" as our enemies, mentality does not reduce crime and only drives wedges through the social fabric of our City. Instead of MOBOT guarding Rome from the Goths, what if whites didn't leave due to 30 years of exclusive access to HUD and VHA loans that expressly prohibited minorities? What if these people, even today, could get repair loans for their homes? What if block grants didn't end up in affluent suburban areas?

Well, sorry, but the past 50 years plays a role as that time period saw massive changes in our City and Region. My statement indicates that perhaps if the residents in areas around MOBOT, like McRee Town, were able to access home repair loans, in equal frequency as people in suburban areas received them for new construction, the area might not have declined as such. Before the entire area was demolished, I would ask you to find poor minorities in McRee Town which were able to access the capital necessary to rehab their buildings. Ironically, after the area was torn down, we now have a plan to rehab surrounding buildings and build new LEED construction. Funny how after the "wrong element" was moved elsewhere we see people willing to invest in the community. This is an extension of historic public and private policies which defined certain areas as a risky investment due to neighborhood demographics. This happens to be racially based. Someone living in McRee Town, with the same income as someone in Florissant, should not be denied a loan because they're black or the area happens to be majority-minority. That happened for decades and it still plays a role today. Again, minorities were directed to sub-prime loans at a higher rate than whites with similar incomes and credit history.

My parents are very much aware how much I dislike where I grew up as it has been a point of discussion. They also admire my hard work, passion, and the fact I was accepted into several Ivy League graduate school programs. As I stated, if not for my unemployment benefits, and the charity of my family, my situation would be much worse off. I would have lost my apartment and who knows what could have occurred. People should have empathy for those who are on the street and not as lucky. I also do not understand why you're criticizing me for having a family able to look out for my personal welfare? Isn't that what families do? I am fortunate they had this ability. That occurred through the fact that historically my family had privileges which minorities did not.

Corporate: I'm sorry but it's hard for me to disconnect crime from poverty. I am also not guilty as I have no responsibility for this, however I feel compelled to point out how wrong it is because that's the right thing to do.

Here's a question: name another profession besides sports where one can get into a huge brawl at the workplace and not be outright fired? I find it hypocritical in our society that we give exceptions to our alleged role models. More than that, we hold higher standards for others such as teachers. Why don't we apply pay for performance to sports officials before that applies to highly underpaid public servants? If a teacher punched another they would be gone. If the union interceded on their behalf you can bet people would be in an uproar.

Doug wrote:They also admire my hard work, passion, and the fact I was accepted into several Ivy League graduate school programs.

I call BS.

Doug wrote:Here's a question: name another profession besides sports where one can get into a huge brawl at the workplace and not be outright fired?

Professional wrestling.

MattnSTL wrote:Are you asking us to warn CS? Normally everyone is whining the other way around. But, it is pretty ridiculous that all the CS can respond with is a quick one liner.

Everyone is hereby warned.

Does an idiotic rant deserve more than a quick one liner? I would say no, but I guess I'm used to skeptics forums, where critical thinking is the norm.

The Central Scrutinizer wrote:

MattnSTL wrote:Are you asking us to warn CS? Normally everyone is whining the other way around. But, it is pretty ridiculous that all the CS can respond with is a quick one liner.

Everyone is hereby warned.

Does an idiotic rant deserve more than a quick one liner? I would say no, but I guess I'm used to skeptics forums, where critical thinking is the norm.

The problem is that fairly often you cross that line from "skeptic" to "smart-ass". Yes: Doug's 10,000+ word, single paragraph diatribes can be tiring. We're just asking for you to dial it down a notch or two.

TheRemedy wrote: I like reading CS's posts, without people like CS and Doug the site would not be worth reading, a forum is for open public communication. There isn't much need to over regulate forum discussion in my opinion. Let the group talk, if someone is a smart ass get over it, if someone keeps turning everything into a racial issue get over it. Make your points and move on, no need to oppress someone just because you do not agree or they are being a smart ass.

Dude, chill. I already know I don't need to read CS's posts. In fact that's why I have him on my ignore list. The only problem I have is when multiple pages of a thread involve CS sniping and it being quoted. Those don't get hidden. Plus it sends the real discussion off track.

I'm not a moderator and you're not a moderator so we don't get a say in the matter. This is someone else's pool and we're just playing in it. Besides, you've got 39 posts and have been here only a few weeks. Who died and made you God?

All I was requesting that CS take the snarky comment meter down from 9.9 (out of 10) to 7 or and 8. I wasn't asking for him to be banned or for him to totally shut up.

TheRemedy wrote:I like reading CS's posts...

campbv wrote:Agreed! Go get 'em CS! Those one-liners pack a lot of punch!

GelatinousEndive wrote:Yes I like CS, no need to dial it down.

There are at least a few people here with good judgment.