This is not apples-to-apples by any means, but Sprint pays $2.5 million annually (for 25 years beginning in 2004) for naming rights to the Kansas City arena, which has never landed a permanent tenant but attracts many events.roger wyoming II wrote:In a related article, RSA may get some revenue stream if they can work out a deal for naming rights sponsorship with Edward Jones or someone else (current $3M/yr deal went to Kroenke) Not sure how much RSA could fetch though w/o a marquee tenant.
Didn't realize the RSA also owned the facility in Earth City
Fox2 - Regional Sports Authority questioned over $16 million failed stadium proposal
http://fox2now.com/2016/01/13/you-paid- ... -proposal/
Fox2 - Regional Sports Authority questioned over $16 million failed stadium proposal
http://fox2now.com/2016/01/13/you-paid- ... -proposal/
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My top dome upgrade would be to redo the inside roof lighting. Use colored LED liberally. But primarily at least do an experiment with lights pointing up and see if you can emulate a translucent roof. Arizona keeps its roof closed nearly all the time. I would love to see what the dome would look like with simulated bright translucent roof. Then, look into hanging a giant video board as CVC proposed in 2012.
Thanks for posting.quincunx wrote:Didn't realize the RSA also owned the facility in Earth City
Fox2 - Regional Sports Authority questioned over $16 million failed stadium proposal
http://fox2now.com/2016/01/13/you-paid- ... -proposal/
I guess it's a formality.
Nonetheless, the work they did was all on display.
No hookery or crookery.
They just came up short in trying to do the right thing for St. Louis.
I just hope this isn't dragged out with a whole lot of finger-pointing.
In the future, put airtight rules in place to keep prevent caveats and loopholes.
But the truth is......there will always be caveats and loopholes.
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Kroenke likely planned to move the Rams 20 years ago
http://www.bnd.com/sports/mlb/st-louis- ... 11755.html
http://www.bnd.com/sports/mlb/st-louis- ... 11755.html
That article is well-thought, sensible and believable.
It also contains some of my shared beliefs that I've written here - especially the part about the requested $800-million in public investment the Rams knew would NEVER happen. I used to think early on that if St. Louis and Missouri had started negotiations early and delivered a nice project/package, the Rams would have been content.
However, when the NFL sent those twits to the Union Station"town hall" meeting, I knew the game was rigged because they were there only to be used as sounding boards. Low affects, the one guy got a little angry and they didn't know sh*t. sh*t!
St. Louis could have given Kroenke and the NFL two banks and two enchiladas and it would not have been enough.
They wanted L.A.
As I have always stated......Kroenke is shrewd and calculating. His ex-business partners have conveyed it publicly.
The best one could hope for with Kroenke is KARMA. When you shrewdly deceive this many people with lies, shenanigans and chicanery, KARMA is going to get you eventually.
Great piece. Thanks for sharing.
It also contains some of my shared beliefs that I've written here - especially the part about the requested $800-million in public investment the Rams knew would NEVER happen. I used to think early on that if St. Louis and Missouri had started negotiations early and delivered a nice project/package, the Rams would have been content.
However, when the NFL sent those twits to the Union Station"town hall" meeting, I knew the game was rigged because they were there only to be used as sounding boards. Low affects, the one guy got a little angry and they didn't know sh*t. sh*t!
St. Louis could have given Kroenke and the NFL two banks and two enchiladas and it would not have been enough.
They wanted L.A.
As I have always stated......Kroenke is shrewd and calculating. His ex-business partners have conveyed it publicly.
The best one could hope for with Kroenke is KARMA. When you shrewdly deceive this many people with lies, shenanigans and chicanery, KARMA is going to get you eventually.
Great piece. Thanks for sharing.
This is how close Kroenke's project site is to LAX.
Picture taken by a passenger on skyscraperpage.com while his plane was descending into the airport.
Then look at those homes so close to the project.
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Picture taken by a passenger on skyscraperpage.com while his plane was descending into the airport.
Then look at those homes so close to the project.
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^ I always find it interesting how dense things are in LA despite its popular image... Inglewood's density of over 12,000 ppl./ sq. mi. is Bostonian and Los Angeles itself has over 8,000 over 400+ square miles, which is more than double say sprawling Dallas and Houston.
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This all bizarre to me I guess because I'm young. Los Angeles having an NFL was never a big deal until recently with the Rams breaking their necks to get there. I can not believe NFL left the Raiders and Chargers blowing in the wind like that. Three NFL cities might not have teams in a year or two.What a bad sports league but they make a lot of money. Anyway...
I'm kind of glad they are gone though. This is a wake call to this area that we are falling behind.
Ferguson and the Rams leaving should energize our leaders into action. I am tired of hearing people brag about leaving for Atlanta, Dallas, Houston, and California. Let's move into the future as a region.
If we can get our act together than the NFL, NBA, NHL, MLS, and MLB will all want to be in this city regardless.
I'm kind of glad they are gone though. This is a wake call to this area that we are falling behind.
Ferguson and the Rams leaving should energize our leaders into action. I am tired of hearing people brag about leaving for Atlanta, Dallas, Houston, and California. Let's move into the future as a region.
If we can get our act together than the NFL, NBA, NHL, MLS, and MLB will all want to be in this city regardless.
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This move had nothing to do with St. Louis, and everything to do with a very wealthy man wanting to be in Los Angeles. There are many reasons to improve St. Louis, but this move is not one of them.
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^ I agree.... in the end I think a lot of NFL owners really liked the Inglewood plan and that's nothing against STL. They also shived San Diego and Oakland so its no big deal other than all they care about is the benjamins. Hopefully it all blows up in their faces.
And I agree with downtown's comment that Wendell is spot on.... that applies to everything really, if we can get our act together the Saint Louis region is one that more people and business will want to be present in. And if the city and downtown can get their acts together, a lot of that growth will happen in the core where it should be.
And I agree with downtown's comment that Wendell is spot on.... that applies to everything really, if we can get our act together the Saint Louis region is one that more people and business will want to be present in. And if the city and downtown can get their acts together, a lot of that growth will happen in the core where it should be.
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If LA had gotten its act together for one of the expansion teams a few years ago, they wouldn't care a whit about the Rams. Nobody in Houston is clamoring for the return of the Oilers.MarkHaversham wrote:This move had nothing to do with St. Louis, and everything to do with a very wealthy man wanting to be in Los Angeles. There are many reasons to improve St. Louis, but this move is not one of them.
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MarkHaversham wrote:This move had nothing to do with St. Louis, and everything to do with a very wealthy man wanting to be in Los Angeles. There are many reasons to improve St. Louis, but this move is not one of them.
That was not what I was trying express there.
I now believe the NFL decide the Rams were going back to Los Angeles and the Jaguars to St. Louis years ago. Look the way they realigned the division in 2000. Rams are in division with teams on the other side the continent. While the AFC South Cities are much closer to STL. St. Louis, Nashville, Indianapolis, Houston fit perfect.
However, my point was that if we can get it together on socioeconomic level and grow as an area. The NFL would return anyway. I wasn't saying that the Rams left because of something STL did. STL has more Fortune 500 Companies than Buffalo, New Orlean, and Baltimore combined. But we have social decay.
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I think St. Louis is already an appealing NFL market, but I see what you're saying.
While I think St. Louis does needs to clean up its entrenched ways of doing some things - socially and racially - so that the region can be more inviting and growth-oriented, Kroenke's decision to leave St. Louis had nothing to do with St. Louis - except the fact St. Louis would not throw BILLIONS at him for a Hollywood-style palace. His goal was to ALWAYS leave St. Louis, I think.
Kroenke was being DISHONEST when he dissed St. Louis' economy. If St. Louis was such an economic dump, he wouldn't own damn-near twenty power and lifestyle centers around metro St. Louis - many of which he BEGGED for TIFs. Further, he wouldn't have built The Plaza in Clayton - which allowed him to poach firms from downtown St. Louis.
And last, he and his partner wouldn't be seeking to buy 200 acres of land in Maryland Heights. Who knows, perhaps the old fart is looking to convince the NFL to put an NFL team out there.
Point is, St. Louis IS NOT falling behind. Yes, THERE ARE challenges - no doubt - but St. Louis is not falling behind because Kroenke packed up his abysmally-losing NFL team and left. St. Louisans can now spend that money elsewhere. Losing the NFL is the least of St. Louis' challenges. I'd rather fight to keep the NGA in St. Louis City - or for the Olive Streetcar - or for a major Silicon Valley firm to choose St. Louis for a major regional HQ's.
But yes, St. Louis needs to clean up its act socially and racially. I've preached that on this board for years.
For the most part, while St. Louis has some deeper soul-searching to do, they shouldn't be doing it because of Kroenke's chicanery and shenanigans.
Kroenke was being DISHONEST when he dissed St. Louis' economy. If St. Louis was such an economic dump, he wouldn't own damn-near twenty power and lifestyle centers around metro St. Louis - many of which he BEGGED for TIFs. Further, he wouldn't have built The Plaza in Clayton - which allowed him to poach firms from downtown St. Louis.
And last, he and his partner wouldn't be seeking to buy 200 acres of land in Maryland Heights. Who knows, perhaps the old fart is looking to convince the NFL to put an NFL team out there.
Point is, St. Louis IS NOT falling behind. Yes, THERE ARE challenges - no doubt - but St. Louis is not falling behind because Kroenke packed up his abysmally-losing NFL team and left. St. Louisans can now spend that money elsewhere. Losing the NFL is the least of St. Louis' challenges. I'd rather fight to keep the NGA in St. Louis City - or for the Olive Streetcar - or for a major Silicon Valley firm to choose St. Louis for a major regional HQ's.
But yes, St. Louis needs to clean up its act socially and racially. I've preached that on this board for years.
For the most part, while St. Louis has some deeper soul-searching to do, they shouldn't be doing it because of Kroenke's chicanery and shenanigans.
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I don't think the NFL is ever going to feel a pressing need to put a team back in St. Louis no matter what we do. They trashed our proposal, they one by one (Kroenke Demoff Bornstein Jones Goodell Grubman Davis and even Khan) lined up to spit on our market. The head of PR laughed at Randy Karraker and called us a Baseball town after it was all over.
We don't need to be in business with the NFL, St. Louis will outlive the NFL.
We don't need to be in business with the NFL, St. Louis will outlive the NFL.
I agree, in part. But yes, St. Louis will outlive the NFL.arch_genesis wrote:We don't need to be in business with the NFL, St. Louis will outlive the NFL.
However, St. Louis is now the largest metro without the NFL.
Eventually, they have to come knocking - especially if St. Louis can get its economy going on eight cylinders.
Just today, Missouri is reported to have moved up in the ranks of Most Innovative States. And it is largely because of St. Louis.
So whether it's 10, 20 or 30 years from now.....they will come.....because they are greedy bastards.
If the world is still here, they will come.
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^ 10, 20, 30 years from now will St. Louis be the largest metro without football? There's a lot of cities without a team already nipping at our heels. 30 years ago we were the 12th largest Metro in the USA and now we're 19th-20th.
Talent filling NFL rosters is going to take a hit as well, I think we'll see an nfl team fold before they expand again. At our current rate 30 years from now I could see St. Louis not being a top 30 MSA. Maybe we should take this reprieve from the NFL and make babies. Maybe every single person should find a partner from abroad.
Talent filling NFL rosters is going to take a hit as well, I think we'll see an nfl team fold before they expand again. At our current rate 30 years from now I could see St. Louis not being a top 30 MSA. Maybe we should take this reprieve from the NFL and make babies. Maybe every single person should find a partner from abroad.
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^ actually if Spanos joins Kroenke in LA San Diego will be the largest Metro w/o NFL. Portland, San Antonio and Sacramento all have 2.3M ppl. and at 24th-26th are the largest Metros w/o NFL. They'll likely each surpass us in the next 20 years or so at present rate. (Denver likely will, and Baltimore may catch up to us by 2020 and kick us down to #21 on the MSA list.)
I strongly agree that this isn't a good reason to seek improvement. And yet...MarkHaversham wrote:This move had nothing to do with St. Louis, and everything to do with a very wealthy man wanting to be in Los Angeles. There are many reasons to improve St. Louis, but this move is not one of them.
Motivation comes in strange forms. I don't think this region should freak out because we lost an NFL team. But if this region does freak out and puts that effort in the right places... then it will be a good thing.
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BINGO. Tampa passed STL a couple years back and Baltimore and Denver are right on it's heals. And with the kind of growth places like Charlotte, San Antonio and Orlando are having compared to STL? Lookout. sourcearch_genesis wrote:^ 10, 20, 30 years from now will St. Louis be the largest metro without football? There's a lot of cities without a team already nipping at our heels. 30 years ago we were the 12th largest Metro in the USA and now we're 19th-20th.
...At our current rate 30 years from now I could see St. Louis not being a top 30 MSA.
STL shouldn't be freaking out over the Rams leaving. STL should be freaking out over lagging population and GDP growth and doing some hard soul searching to understand why it's happening and what can be done to turn things around.
Instead, if the STL press in any indication of the general attitude that exists in the region, I see a bunch of people blaming a billionaire and feel good stories how there's nothing wrong with the STL region.
Don't get me wrong, I believe STL has *enormous* potential. I believe under the right conditions it could catapult itself into the type of city the the rest of the country envies, and I'd love to see it succeed in doing so. However, doing so I think can only come about by first turning inward and doing some soul searching with regards to why population and GDP growth have been so low for so long.
Personally, I love the way the local media has handled the Rams leaving. First, a billionaire is to blame for the Rams leaving. Whether one sees that as a positive or a negative, that's a fact. Second, whether it's Hochmann, Bernie, or whoever else at the Post-Dispatch, I see a lot of people acknowledging real problems when putting the Rams leaving into perspective.
With that said, it is rather insulting in the way that it happened, so I'm not going to bag on the columnists for turning into cheerleaders. Hell, they need to do it more often. It's a great city. The sooner people outside of this board realize that the closer we'll be to people actually giving a damn to want to make a difference.
With that said, it is rather insulting in the way that it happened, so I'm not going to bag on the columnists for turning into cheerleaders. Hell, they need to do it more often. It's a great city. The sooner people outside of this board realize that the closer we'll be to people actually giving a damn to want to make a difference.