This thread is bananas again. For a bunch of people that didn't care about the Rams leaving, there is a whole ton of post-mortem commentary. It's over. Improvise. Adapt. Overcome.
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^^ right; they may have the Chiefs and be growing at a faster rate the past few years, but KC will always be our little brother.
Can an admin please lock this thread? We can't talk about the Rams any more.ttricamo wrote:This thread is bananas again. For a bunch of people that didn't care about the Rams leaving, there is a whole ton of post-mortem commentary. It's over. Improvise. Adapt. Overcome.
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^ Misspelled "Bears"wabash wrote:Maybe a Chiefs and Colts thread should be started instead.
If the NFL has any decency, they'll help the taxpayers of St. Louis
By: Luke Kerr-Dineen | January 26, 2016 8:34 am
usatoday.com
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In some ways you can understand the NFL relocating a team. A business is a business, and businesses have a right to try to make as much money as possible. When a market as big as Los Angeles is on the line, it was only a matter of time, really.
But what leaves an especially bitter taste in the mouth of all of this, especially in the case of St. Louis, is the NFL’s embrace of taxpayer-subsidized stadiums. Los Angeles was always the great carrot that made this all possible: ‘Help us build a new stadium or we’ll move to Los Angeles,’ was the general tactic. It worked so well that 29 of the 31 NFL stadiums have received taxpayer money in the last 20 years, according to a recent study, to the tune of almost $7 billion in total.
The City of St. Louis was, of course, one of those governments to help subsidise a stadium. It’s what drew the team from Los Angeles in the first place, and it’s why the nature of the team leaving is such a nasty final blow.
That loan the Rams took out back in 1995 hasn’t been paid off yet. After Missouri taxpayers committed more than $280 million in public funds in the mid-1990s, the city government still owes $36 million in remaining debt on the loan (that extends into 2021). In a letter to NFL Commissioner Roger Goodell last week, a city representative asked the league to pay off the outstanding balance.
It’s easy to know what should happen. $36 million is less than half a percent of the NFL’s estimated yearly revenue. Rams owner Stan Kroenke is worth over $6 billion himself, and he wants the team in LA so badly that he’s not just paying owners $650 in relocation fees to make it happen, the new stadium will also be financed entirely privately.
Just pay back the money, NFL. It wouldn’t go unnoticed in what has been an ugly ordeal for the city.
Read More
By: Luke Kerr-Dineen | January 26, 2016 8:34 am
usatoday.com
In some ways you can understand the NFL relocating a team. A business is a business, and businesses have a right to try to make as much money as possible. When a market as big as Los Angeles is on the line, it was only a matter of time, really.
But what leaves an especially bitter taste in the mouth of all of this, especially in the case of St. Louis, is the NFL’s embrace of taxpayer-subsidized stadiums. Los Angeles was always the great carrot that made this all possible: ‘Help us build a new stadium or we’ll move to Los Angeles,’ was the general tactic. It worked so well that 29 of the 31 NFL stadiums have received taxpayer money in the last 20 years, according to a recent study, to the tune of almost $7 billion in total.
The City of St. Louis was, of course, one of those governments to help subsidise a stadium. It’s what drew the team from Los Angeles in the first place, and it’s why the nature of the team leaving is such a nasty final blow.
That loan the Rams took out back in 1995 hasn’t been paid off yet. After Missouri taxpayers committed more than $280 million in public funds in the mid-1990s, the city government still owes $36 million in remaining debt on the loan (that extends into 2021). In a letter to NFL Commissioner Roger Goodell last week, a city representative asked the league to pay off the outstanding balance.
It’s easy to know what should happen. $36 million is less than half a percent of the NFL’s estimated yearly revenue. Rams owner Stan Kroenke is worth over $6 billion himself, and he wants the team in LA so badly that he’s not just paying owners $650 in relocation fees to make it happen, the new stadium will also be financed entirely privately.
Just pay back the money, NFL. It wouldn’t go unnoticed in what has been an ugly ordeal for the city.
Read More
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^ "Walmart doesn't close profitable businesses in one city so it can open new stores in another city."
...Except in St. Louis due to TIFs and fragmentation.
...Except in St. Louis due to TIFs and fragmentation.
This appeared on LinkedIn.com
While the writer is in the St. Louis area, the brief but impactful article makes a lot of sense.
Entrepreneurs Transform Cities, Not Football
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While the writer is in the St. Louis area, the brief but impactful article makes a lot of sense.
Entrepreneurs Transform Cities, Not Football
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Couldn't you make massive gains by looking backwards over twenty years and suggesting any of hundreds of alternative investments? Historical cherry picking deserves skepticism.
Since the money was borrowed, these investments would have needed to at least cover the payments. How in this backwards navel gazing would the money have been recovered?
By extension, isn't this guy slightly suggesting that we should borrow a huge amount of money now and make that investment in start-ups? How can this be done in a way that pays for itself? It's TIF-like voodoo math to project some general expansion of the St. Louis economy and a corresponding increase in tax revenue equal to the cost.
I do not disagree with the sentiment, but the possible conclusions are sticky. We did not have the money to build a new stadium, but guys like Conway and Slay pushed it anyway. To turn around and show how much better it might be to invest the money we don't have into an alternate project like an MLS stadium or a super venture fund still puts us in the hole.
Remember when Metro borrowed a huge amount of money but didn't have a mechanism to pay it back?
Since the money was borrowed, these investments would have needed to at least cover the payments. How in this backwards navel gazing would the money have been recovered?
By extension, isn't this guy slightly suggesting that we should borrow a huge amount of money now and make that investment in start-ups? How can this be done in a way that pays for itself? It's TIF-like voodoo math to project some general expansion of the St. Louis economy and a corresponding increase in tax revenue equal to the cost.
I do not disagree with the sentiment, but the possible conclusions are sticky. We did not have the money to build a new stadium, but guys like Conway and Slay pushed it anyway. To turn around and show how much better it might be to invest the money we don't have into an alternate project like an MLS stadium or a super venture fund still puts us in the hole.
Remember when Metro borrowed a huge amount of money but didn't have a mechanism to pay it back?
Life | Wed Feb 3, 2016 2:37pm EST Related: SPORTS
With NFL Rams gone, St. Louis still stuck with stadium debt
http://www.reuters.com/article/us-sport ... SKCN0VC0EP
With NFL Rams gone, St. Louis still stuck with stadium debt
http://www.reuters.com/article/us-sport ... SKCN0VC0EP
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^^ I think Carter's goal here is to get private investors locally to get off the schneid and get in the start-up game.
02/11/16 • ESPN THE MAGAZINE & OUTSIDE THE LINES
THE WOW FACTOR
Few could have guessed that the league's return would become so bloody, bitter and, most of all, emblematic of how power in the NFL truly works.
http://espn.go.com/espn/feature/story/_ ... os-angeles
THE WOW FACTOR
Few could have guessed that the league's return would become so bloody, bitter and, most of all, emblematic of how power in the NFL truly works.
http://espn.go.com/espn/feature/story/_ ... os-angeles
So who is left holding the bag if they're successful? City and County? Interesting dynamic between spreading out the region and power in MOLeg. A rep in St. Charles Co doesn't have to be concerned.
Jason Rosenbaum @jrosenbaum
A House appropriations subcommittee votes to strip out the $12M Edward Jones Dome payment. I believe it now goes to full budget committee.
Jason Rosenbaum @jrosenbaum
A House appropriations subcommittee votes to strip out the $12M Edward Jones Dome payment. I believe it now goes to full budget committee.
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^ I believe bond holders would be left holding the bag if the state doesn't make it's bond payments... I don't think that would impact the County or City paying on their separately issued bonds.
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The dome has some unique features such as a non-translucent roof which means they can control the light level all the way to black in daytime. The only other dome I can think of that does that is the Super Dome in New Orleans. And our dome has a giant grid that can be use for hanging or dropping things for a full 3-D event. Thinking outside the usual St Louis box, I was wondering what kind of permanent show or exhibit could take advantage of this to become a permanent national attraction. Maybe tie it to the casino next door to make it some kind of continuous running Las Vegas style spectacle.
How about flooding the floor and re-enacting sea battles as they did in the Colosseum in Ancient Rome. Or something similar that is so over the top that everyone has to see once their lives. Or we could create a giant Branson repeating style spectacle but with The Rolling Stones. Better yet - Dixie Stampede but with The Stones and real bears and buffalo. Help me here.
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How about flooding the floor and re-enacting sea battles as they did in the Colosseum in Ancient Rome. Or something similar that is so over the top that everyone has to see once their lives. Or we could create a giant Branson repeating style spectacle but with The Rolling Stones. Better yet - Dixie Stampede but with The Stones and real bears and buffalo. Help me here.
"
Jerry's net worth about $5-billion bucks. Stan's "net worth" (I hate that term) is about $8-billion. These are SHREWD billionaires.
I see the NFL like Wall Street - only in the business to make money. They could care less about the little man, which is why Stan scorched St. Louis. Then Stan feels so entitled - because of his billions - that he can ask for money from Maryland Heights. He didn't even consider MH for a new privately-funded stadium project, but yet wants public TIF money for a project in a flood plain. The AUDACITY. Kick rocks.
Feelings of ENTITLEMENT crosses all boundaries.
But in time, Karma is coming for both of them - Kroenke and Jones.
hebeters2 wrote:02/11/16 • ESPN THE MAGAZINE & OUTSIDE THE LINES
THE WOW FACTOR
Few could have guessed that the league's return would become so bloody, bitter and, most of all, emblematic of how power in the NFL truly works.
http://espn.go.com/espn/feature/story/_ ... os-angeles
Stan and Jerry are obvious lovers........of each other's money and gamemanship. Two peas in a pod. Jones was born in Los Angeles and Stan moved there.Michael Bidwill, president of the Cardinals and a Carson supporter, argued that the NFL doesn't exist just to make rich owners richer. Owners needed to consider what would be best for the league, and ...
Jones cut him off: "When you guys moved the team from St. Louis to Phoenix -- it wasn't about the money?"
As Bidwill tried to answer, Jones moved in for the kill: "You did it for the money.
Jerry's net worth about $5-billion bucks. Stan's "net worth" (I hate that term) is about $8-billion. These are SHREWD billionaires.
I see the NFL like Wall Street - only in the business to make money. They could care less about the little man, which is why Stan scorched St. Louis. Then Stan feels so entitled - because of his billions - that he can ask for money from Maryland Heights. He didn't even consider MH for a new privately-funded stadium project, but yet wants public TIF money for a project in a flood plain. The AUDACITY. Kick rocks.
Feelings of ENTITLEMENT crosses all boundaries.
But in time, Karma is coming for both of them - Kroenke and Jones.
Quick...Someone get Disney on the phone. Time to resuscitate Riverfront Square.
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addxb2 wrote:Quick...Someone get Disney on the phone. Time to resuscitate Riverfront Square.
Just don't forget the monorail. A cure for these troubled times.
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What if we made inside the Dome a heavily taxed redlight district?
Another alternative would be an adventure experience of dystopian futures with themes such as "Escape from New York," "A Clockwork Orange" and "Blade Runner."
Another alternative would be an adventure experience of dystopian futures with themes such as "Escape from New York," "A Clockwork Orange" and "Blade Runner."
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Well if we're going for a dirty cyberpunk thing (Pris was born yesterday btw...), then why not go full steampunk and rebuild the Four Courts prison in there? Then at least we'd get a population boost come census time.
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