If regional leaders really wanted to keep the rams or really want to attract a new team it can't be the city and county teaming up. It needs to at least be StL county and St Chuck county
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If we've learned anything this week it's that there was no keeping the Rams.
Apparently the bill for the stadium proposal is over 16 million bucks, with over 10 million going to HOK. It would have been nice for the NFL to throw us a bone and cover those expenses. It would be a pittance for them, considering all the money the Los Angeles Stadium will bring in.
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This well written article just about sums up the debacle that was the NFL's handling of the relocation process.
http://www.sportingnews.com/nfl-news/46 ... er-goodell
http://www.sportingnews.com/nfl-news/46 ... er-goodell
Magic Johnson is majority owner of the Los Angeles Dodgers. I always root for the Cardinals, but I'm especially going to root for them against the Dodgers now. "Our" team? L.A. nor California is contributing one red cent to the team.
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In all fairness, they were the "LA Rams" far longer than they were the "STL Rams".
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1995- Regional leaders sign worst lease in sports history, in desperation, to fill an empty Dome. They were the St. Louis Rams, but deep down, John Shaw knew the lease was in his favor. I'm sure he told StanK, "someday, in the future, if things go south or you want more money, you'll have an out."
2008- Georgia died, STL's only advocate
2008-Chip & Lucia take over
2002-2009- Seattle, AZ & Dallas set the standard for top tier "stadia".
2010-StanK exercises his right of 1st refusal, bumps out Shad Kahn and takes over the now future LA Rams.
2013-The Rams win arbitration-Its unofficially over for St. Louis as an NFL city.
2014-StanK Inglewood land buy goes public.
2015-StanK announces stadium plans in LA
2016-StanK/Rams file for relocation and the NFL approves the move.
"Welcome home LA Rams"
I know none of us need a history lesson, but I think when you look back at the timeline, you can see how many things happened over the years, that sealed our fate, long before the NFL owners approved the move. The situation was fluid. Things were going on behind the scenes. Lots of meetings, negotiations and handshakes. All the while, the STL Rams fanbase, for the most part, was clueless. Many chose to turn a blind eye to the realities of what was happening. Now that its over, it is interesting to think what STL could have done. Unfortunately, with that lease, our fate was sealed the minute it was signed. Even if the Rams didn't make this move now, I believe LA would have been an option for them in 2025. The only difference may have been competition from the likes of JAX and maybe a few others, that have leases up then. I'm curious what will happen in 10 years when many of those leases are up. I root for the NFL to screw it up again. They seem to be good at that these days. As long as Goodell is in power, I will root for the leagues eventual demise.
2008- Georgia died, STL's only advocate
2008-Chip & Lucia take over
2002-2009- Seattle, AZ & Dallas set the standard for top tier "stadia".
2010-StanK exercises his right of 1st refusal, bumps out Shad Kahn and takes over the now future LA Rams.
2013-The Rams win arbitration-Its unofficially over for St. Louis as an NFL city.
2014-StanK Inglewood land buy goes public.
2015-StanK announces stadium plans in LA
2016-StanK/Rams file for relocation and the NFL approves the move.
"Welcome home LA Rams"
I know none of us need a history lesson, but I think when you look back at the timeline, you can see how many things happened over the years, that sealed our fate, long before the NFL owners approved the move. The situation was fluid. Things were going on behind the scenes. Lots of meetings, negotiations and handshakes. All the while, the STL Rams fanbase, for the most part, was clueless. Many chose to turn a blind eye to the realities of what was happening. Now that its over, it is interesting to think what STL could have done. Unfortunately, with that lease, our fate was sealed the minute it was signed. Even if the Rams didn't make this move now, I believe LA would have been an option for them in 2025. The only difference may have been competition from the likes of JAX and maybe a few others, that have leases up then. I'm curious what will happen in 10 years when many of those leases are up. I root for the NFL to screw it up again. They seem to be good at that these days. As long as Goodell is in power, I will root for the leagues eventual demise.
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So what. Those fans are dead. They had a lot more fans in St Louis now. Check the TV ratings. I'll be interested to see if St Louis gives them higher per cent ratings in the fall than the ho hum LA fans give them. If they had gotten an expansion team they wouldn't give a hoot about this Rams team. They just want the name. Not the team. But they will still hang the Super Bowl banner in LA.
I sent this note to Claire McCaskill related to the Rams leaving:
In normal businesses, as demand for a product increases, the suppliers increase production to meet the demand. The NFL has an anti-trust exemption, and thus is allowed by Congress to control supply. I believe that Congress should pass legislation that requires sports leagues, such as the NFL to expand the number of franchises they allow, like real businesses, in line with demand -- as measured by gross receipts.
Currently the NFL limits supply to 32 teams and increasingly demands that their home cities provide fabulously luxurious stadiums with paintings, sculpture, movable roofs, giant video, etc. If a city does not offer such a place, the customers there are denied the product -- it moves to city that will fund the palace through increased ticket prices driven by pent-up demand due to league-induced scarcity in the new city. This scarcity model of business is closer to the old Soviet model of distribution than it is to American capitalism. Under this legislation, the NFL would be required to add two teams when gross receipts across the league increases by 2/32 of the current receipts.
The NFL chose to deny their product to the 3 million loyal customers in St. Louis because they had an opportunity to move to a place with more demand manufactured through scarcity in California. Now there is scarcity in St. Louis. St. Louis is now the largest metro area in the US that is not within 3 hours of an NFL team -- the only one of the 30 largest metros, and one of only 3 in the top 50 metros. St Louisans have to drive nearly 4 hours to reach the nearest NFL product in Kansas City -- 8 hours round trip -- making it essentially an overnight stay.
I believe our Congresspersons should introduce legislation that requires leagues such as the NFL with special exemptions from competition to match supply with demand -- as measured by gross receipt increases -- through team expansion, in order to maintain that special status.
In normal businesses, as demand for a product increases, the suppliers increase production to meet the demand. The NFL has an anti-trust exemption, and thus is allowed by Congress to control supply. I believe that Congress should pass legislation that requires sports leagues, such as the NFL to expand the number of franchises they allow, like real businesses, in line with demand -- as measured by gross receipts.
Currently the NFL limits supply to 32 teams and increasingly demands that their home cities provide fabulously luxurious stadiums with paintings, sculpture, movable roofs, giant video, etc. If a city does not offer such a place, the customers there are denied the product -- it moves to city that will fund the palace through increased ticket prices driven by pent-up demand due to league-induced scarcity in the new city. This scarcity model of business is closer to the old Soviet model of distribution than it is to American capitalism. Under this legislation, the NFL would be required to add two teams when gross receipts across the league increases by 2/32 of the current receipts.
The NFL chose to deny their product to the 3 million loyal customers in St. Louis because they had an opportunity to move to a place with more demand manufactured through scarcity in California. Now there is scarcity in St. Louis. St. Louis is now the largest metro area in the US that is not within 3 hours of an NFL team -- the only one of the 30 largest metros, and one of only 3 in the top 50 metros. St Louisans have to drive nearly 4 hours to reach the nearest NFL product in Kansas City -- 8 hours round trip -- making it essentially an overnight stay.
I believe our Congresspersons should introduce legislation that requires leagues such as the NFL with special exemptions from competition to match supply with demand -- as measured by gross receipt increases -- through team expansion, in order to maintain that special status.
I like the letter. Great effort. But do you think she or Roy Blunt would introduce such a bill in Congress with Missouri still having the KC Chokers (I mean...Chiefs)?gary kreie wrote:I sent this note to Claire McCaskill related to the Rams leaving:
Not to bubble burst, but most congressional reps would never ride with it because most of them have the NFL in their home districts. You can now even add L.A.
I'm pissed that the Chokers (K.C.) and Bolts (Indianapolis), who bolted from Baltimore, think they can just willy nilly come and snag St. Louis' TV market and fans. The audacity. They have to earn that right. And to be jockeying for the St. Louis TV market so soon is sooooo disrespectful to St. Louis - especially when their owners likely voted against St. Louis. Snakes!
Screw the NFL. I say show soccer, hockey or basketball. Rugby (which I like) is over by the time the NFL starts regular season.
For all those celebrating the loss the of the Rams: this is the press St. Louis is getting. Right or wrong this is how we're perceived. Now is the time to fix this.
Taxpayers Shouldn't Shell Out Money if Fans Won't Show Up
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/john-a-tu ... 52604.html
Our view: Lessons from St. Louis
http://www.roanoke.com/opinion/editoria ... 8fb71.html
Taxpayers Shouldn't Shell Out Money if Fans Won't Show Up
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/john-a-tu ... 52604.html
Our view: Lessons from St. Louis
http://www.roanoke.com/opinion/editoria ... 8fb71.html
What’s of more interest to us is part of the argument that Kroenke made to fellow owners – that St. Louis is basically a dying city that could no longer support three pro sports franchises, the baseball Cardinals and the hockey Blues being the other two.
St. Louis can point to tech start-ups, too, and other rankings where it places well, but the Gateway City is clearly running behind its cross-state rival.
^Don't care.
Let's earn good press through meaningful things. It can happen.
Let's earn good press through meaningful things. It can happen.
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^ it's to be expected; we just need to power through it by doing what we need to be doing and we'll be fine.
and as I alluded to on the downtown thread, the forum's favorite out-state editorialist Yael Abouhalkah liked Debbie Monterrey's positive downtown piece on KMOX... with an assist from yours truly.
and as I alluded to on the downtown thread, the forum's favorite out-state editorialist Yael Abouhalkah liked Debbie Monterrey's positive downtown piece on KMOX... with an assist from yours truly.
The guy who wrote the opinion piece is a POLITICAL science professor.dweebe wrote:For all those celebrating the loss the of the Rams: this is the press St. Louis is getting. Right or wrong this is how we're perceived. Now is the time to fix this.
Taxpayers Shouldn't Shell Out Money if Fans Won't Show Up
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/john-a-tu ... 52604.html
He's dumb as fu*k. Did it ever occur to the political science professor that maybe the reason St. Louis WASN'T supporting the Rams is because they were LOSING?
Did it ever occur to the political science professor that St. Louis likes WINNERS - not losers?
Did it ever occur to the political science professor that maybe St. Louis had the lowest fan turnout because people knew Kroenke was going to move the team to Los Angeles.
Did it ever occur to the political science professor that when the Rams were actual WINNERS, it was hard to get good seats and the stadium sold out nearly every game?
Did it ever occur to the political science professor that the Rams had FIFTEEN LOSING seasons, two .500 seasons and only FOUR WINNING seasons during their 21-year stint in St. Louis?
Also, St. Louis only lost the Hawks to Atlanta because the owner sold the team to Thomas Cousins and former Georgia Governor Carl Sanders - both native Georgians.
This guy needs to stick to writing about Donald Trump and teaching political science.
Written by By Tom Torrisi | FOXSPORTS
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Kenny Nowling has watched an NFL franchise leave the City of St. Louis twice in the past 28 years and he can empathize more than most with how fans of the Rams are feeling following Tuesday's announcement that the team is relocating to Los Angeles.
Now the CEO and president of the River City Raiders, an indoor football team based in St. Louis, Nowling told FOXSports.com in a phone interview that it was much tougher for him to see the St. Louis Cardinals bolt for Arizona in 1988.
"I was 15 the first time the Cardinals left. I took it a lot harder then," Nowling said. "I looked at it as (then-Cardinals owner) Bill Bidwill being real selfish. The reality is that Bill Bidwill was much less selfish than (Rams owner) Stan Kroenke."
Now 43 and in charge of his own football operation, Nowling said he can better understand the business side of such developments. Still, he was taken aback by Kroenke's criticism of the Rams' fan base and his claims that there was not enough support in St. Louis.
"It's a sad commentary. He could have said it was a business decision and not burned so many bridges," Nowling said. "I just was surprised by the way he went about it."
Nowling unveiled a promotion shortly after the announcement of the relocation, offering all Rams season ticket holders free season tickets for the Raiders' five home games this season. Asked if he feared a backlash from fans who might think he was attempting to cash in on the Rams' departure, Nowling defended the move by pointing out the Raiders were giving away tickets.
Read More

Kenny Nowling has watched an NFL franchise leave the City of St. Louis twice in the past 28 years and he can empathize more than most with how fans of the Rams are feeling following Tuesday's announcement that the team is relocating to Los Angeles.
Now the CEO and president of the River City Raiders, an indoor football team based in St. Louis, Nowling told FOXSports.com in a phone interview that it was much tougher for him to see the St. Louis Cardinals bolt for Arizona in 1988.
"I was 15 the first time the Cardinals left. I took it a lot harder then," Nowling said. "I looked at it as (then-Cardinals owner) Bill Bidwill being real selfish. The reality is that Bill Bidwill was much less selfish than (Rams owner) Stan Kroenke."
Now 43 and in charge of his own football operation, Nowling said he can better understand the business side of such developments. Still, he was taken aback by Kroenke's criticism of the Rams' fan base and his claims that there was not enough support in St. Louis.
"It's a sad commentary. He could have said it was a business decision and not burned so many bridges," Nowling said. "I just was surprised by the way he went about it."
Nowling unveiled a promotion shortly after the announcement of the relocation, offering all Rams season ticket holders free season tickets for the Raiders' five home games this season. Asked if he feared a backlash from fans who might think he was attempting to cash in on the Rams' departure, Nowling defended the move by pointing out the Raiders were giving away tickets.
Read More
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Hunt, The Chiefs owner was the only one in the LA Committee who voted in favor of Inglewood.
So yeah, now he wants market share? Screw him!!!
So yeah, now he wants market share? Screw him!!!
If we're going scoreboard:arch city wrote:The guy who wrote the opinion piece is a POLITICAL science professor.dweebe wrote:For all those celebrating the loss the of the Rams: this is the press St. Louis is getting. Right or wrong this is how we're perceived. Now is the time to fix this.
Taxpayers Shouldn't Shell Out Money if Fans Won't Show Up
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/john-a-tu ... 52604.html
He's dumb as fu*k. Did it ever occur to the political science professor that maybe the reason St. Louis WASN'T supporting the Rams is because they were LOSING?
Did it ever occur to the political science professor that St. Louis likes WINNERS - not losers?
Did it ever occur to the political science professor that maybe St. Louis had the lowest fan turnout because people knew Kroenke was going to move the team to Los Angeles.
Did it ever occur to the political science professor that when the Rams were actual WINNERS, it was hard to get good seats and the stadium sold out nearly every game?
Did it ever occur to the political science professor that the Rams had FIFTEEN LOSING seasons, two .500 seasons and only FOUR WINNING seasons during their 21-year stint in St. Louis?
Also, St. Louis only lost the Hawks to Atlanta because the owner sold the team to Thomas Cousins and former Georgia Governor Carl Sanders - both native Georgians.
This guy needs to stick to writing about Donald Trump and teaching political science.
-Atlanta lost the NHL Flames to Calgary
-Atlanta lost the NFL Thrashers to Winnipeg
-Atlanta might lose the Hawks if they don't spend $150+ million to renovate the 15 year old Phillips Center. Or they might have to build them a whole new arena.
-Atlanta lost the Braves to a horrible location in the suburbs because Turner Field was outdated after 17 years. Not to mention Braves playoff games didn't sell out when they had their run.
-Atlanta is building a new stadium for the Falcons with a whole bunch of public money
Right, the team had been historically bad. I looked at NFL attendance over the past eight years, and found that though the Rams had the second worst total attendance over that span, they had the fourth best attendance based on average attendance per win.
So with a record of 39-88-1 (ugh) they hosted 3,524,228 attendees, or an average of 90,365 attendees per win. There's some questionable logic to the stat, I know, but it's an interesting way to look at it. And that's with the 8th smallest venue (66k) -- so they were at about 83% capacity from 2008 to present.
So with a record of 39-88-1 (ugh) they hosted 3,524,228 attendees, or an average of 90,365 attendees per win. There's some questionable logic to the stat, I know, but it's an interesting way to look at it. And that's with the 8th smallest venue (66k) -- so they were at about 83% capacity from 2008 to present.
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Is this true? I wonder if they're comparing metros or city boundaries...Kansas City has a workforce whose education levels rank well above the national average – and well above St. Louis.
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^ I believe KC Metro's wage and education levels are slightly ahead of Saint Louis Metro while population and economic growth have been considerably ahead. One nugget I did find from Mo economic data is that Saint Louis City had the highest rate of business formation in the state during the past full state fiscal year.
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yeah, i found the info through Forbes and left a comment over at roanoke.com. KC's median annual household income is less than $2K greater than that in STL, and their college attainment rate is less than 2% higher. i don't think the disparities are nearly as great as roanoke makes them sound.roger wyoming II wrote:^ I believe KC Metro's wage and education levels are slightly ahead of Saint Louis Metro while population and economic growth have been considerably ahead. One nugget I did find from Mo economic data is that Saint Louis City had the highest rate of business formation in the state during the past full state fiscal year.
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^ Regionally STL does well on wages and education attainment but where it has faltered post-recession in comparison nationally and to KC is on gmp, jobs & population growth.
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^ GMP? as of the end of 2014 STL's GMP was ~$36B greater than KC's. do yo mean that KC is closing the gap?





