City vs Rams Lawsuit

roger wyoming II · PostNov 18, 2014#12014-11-18T15:37+00:00

Should we have a separate thread here to talk about these specific issues regarding the Rams?

I'll start it off to say if we do get a new stadium please let's be smart about our obligations and avoid the fiasco of last time around or what taxpayers like in Hamilton County are facing...

New Bengals scoreboard will cost taxpayers millions

The project is part of a $16 million agreement brokered in April between the county and the Bengals to fund stadium improvements and riverfront development. The Bengals will pay about $4 million toward the changes that the team's lease would have required the county to cover. The deal is part of an ongoing issue in the county after lower than expected sales tax revenue left the municipality in a budget crunch to cover future improvements included in its contract with the team.

http://www.bizjournals.com/cincinnati/m ... ayers.html

dbInSouthCity · PostNov 18, 2014#22014-11-18T15:44+00:00

I think the thread title should not include "relocation", there will be no relocation, just a new stadium here.

dweebe · PostNov 18, 2014#32014-11-18T16:13+00:00

roger wyoming II wrote:Should we have a separate thread here to talk about these specific issues regarding the Rams?

I'll start it off to say if we do get a new stadium please let's be smart about our obligations and avoid the fiasco of last time around or what taxpayers like in Hamilton County are facing...

New Bengals scoreboard will cost taxpayers millions

The project is part of a $16 million agreement brokered in April between the county and the Bengals to fund stadium improvements and riverfront development. The Bengals will pay about $4 million toward the changes that the team's lease would have required the county to cover. The deal is part of an ongoing issue in the county after lower than expected sales tax revenue left the municipality in a budget crunch to cover future improvements included in its contract with the team.

http://www.bizjournals.com/cincinnati/m ... ayers.html

Not to toot my own horn: but we already have a thread for this.

http://urbanstl.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=49&t=4682

roger wyoming II · PostNov 18, 2014#42014-11-18T16:18+00:00

^ we need a gif of dweebe tooting his horn!

dbInSouthCity · PostNov 18, 2014#52014-11-18T16:24+00:00

PostNov 18, 2014#62014-11-18T16:25+00:00

dweebe wrote:
Not to toot my own horn: but we already have a thread for this.

http://urbanstl.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=49&t=4682

jstriebel · PostNov 18, 2014#72014-11-18T16:34+00:00

I may be the weird one, but I sort of preferred it all in one thread. Better reflected the near inability to separate the relocation speculation from the rest of Rams fandom. I saw someone on Twitter state that on Sundays it's football and on Monday-to-Saturday it's wondering how many more football Sundays St. Louis will have. Thought that summed it up pretty well.

But two (or I suppose three at the moment

) threads it is!

dweebe · PostNov 18, 2014#82014-11-18T16:39+00:00

jstriebel wrote:I may be the weird one, but I sort of preferred it all in one thread. Better reflected the near inability to separate the relocation speculation from the rest of Rams fandom. I saw someone on Twitter state that on Sundays it's football and on Monday-to-Saturday it's wondering how many more football Sundays St. Louis will have. Thought that summed it up pretty well.

But two (or I suppose three at the moment ) threads it is!

Can we get a ruling from a Moderator?

blzhrpmd2 · PostNov 18, 2014#92014-11-18T18:42+00:00

In this day and age of social media, how much do you think teams track fan activity? The numbers on the Keep the Rams in STL page seem pretty strong, for example. Also, the more I read responses to the myriad of articles about relocation, the more I come across people backing STL. It seemed the other way around over the last few years. I'm not suggesting that decisions are made over "likes" and
"trending" patterns but as teams have increased their own social media presence, I wonder how much those things are monitored if at all.

DogtownBnR · PostNov 19, 2014#102014-11-19T14:27+00:00

http://www.insidestl.com/insideSTLcom/S ... ostComment

Another good one by Shane Gray. . .

wabash · PostNov 19, 2014#112014-11-19T16:27+00:00

I'd love to see it here:

or here:

or in the lot directly north of the dome (I'm not sure why that lot hasn't been proposed or mentioned more. The Bottle District is dead, and that lot is the perfect size/location).

If it's cost effective I'd rather just see a thorough retrofit of the Dome, but North Riverfront could be cool. And it could be a much needed shot in the arm for the long-struggling Landing. Then again, the Landing is currently two blocks from the Dome... but it would have less competition from Wash. Ave and the rest of Downtown.

dbInSouthCity · PostNov 19, 2014#122014-11-19T16:38+00:00

I think the issue with those 2 sits is the size....granted that the current Dome sits on 11 aces but thats just the stadium foot print, i think Stan would want a lot of parking around it.

40 Acres

30 acres

PostNov 19, 2014#132014-11-19T16:41+00:00

North of the Dome is too small (unless the City wants to demo so of those apartments) 0 chance of that.

PostNov 19, 2014#142014-11-19T16:43+00:00

North Riverfront is 70 acres- plenty of space and also you can build some sort of foot bridge over the highway or go under it and have parking/tailgating on the site north of the dome- combined thats 85 acres.

dweebe · PostNov 19, 2014#152014-11-19T16:53+00:00

dbInSouthCity wrote:40 Acres

How much acreage is it if you extend that area two blocks south (to Marion St.) and four blocks south to Lafayette Ave?

dbInSouthCity · PostNov 19, 2014#162014-11-19T17:25+00:00

57 to Marion and 75 to Lafayette.

PostNov 19, 2014#172014-11-19T17:26+00:00

From STLToday Rams forum...

I have learned much more about the potential ongoing behind the scenes drama with the Rams and St. Louis. Here goes and, again, don't bash the messenger.
I was told about what is happening on the way to St. Louis this past Saturday night to attend the game and on Monday on the way back (which was more interesting).

St. Louis stadium situation: It is going very well. Both private and corporate money is pouring into the potential project. A lot of big St. Louis people want a piece of the potential project and, I was told, no venue in the NFL would rival this setup. I was told think Patriots Place in Foxboro in an urban setting. I have never been there myself. More on this below.

On Monday I was told a LOT of interesting things about what happened during the game. Stan Kroenke personally hosted Beth Bowlen, Patrick Bowlen, and Broncos CEO Joe Ellis at the game on Sunday. Apparently (and I was told this in July and stated it here a month or so ago) Stan Kroenke is making a play on purchasing the controlling interest of the Broncos. The NFL has given the Bowlen family 2 years to divest ownership to another owner or take controlling interest themselves amongst his 7 children. The tax repercussions are enormous for Beth and Patrick to take over fully and apparently can't do it within the 2 year window from last August. Also, another interesting tidbit is that the family of Edgar Kaiser (former Bronco owner) is suing the Bowlen family saying that they get right of first refusal to purchase team. That is tying things up a bit. I don't think it's a coincidence that I was told how this whole thing was going to play out shortly after the Bowlen dementia diagnosis in July.
If you recall I was told AEG would be granted an extension on Farmers, SK would get a year extension on selling his Denver teams, SK would apply for relocation in February and then sell the team to either a group spearheaded by AEG or a Dave Peacock led STL ownership group.

Now, it gets BATSH!T crazy. Something else I was told is the team of Peacock/Blitz have not sent anything to Stan Kroenke and he will not see this project. Jeff Brewer and Mike Naughton of the Rams finance department apparently HAVE seen the plans and very much like them and want to take up residence in the new stadium. Other NFL owners are very aware of the stadium plan in St. Louis. In March, Carolina Panthers owner Jerry Richardson watched is alma mater Wofford play Michigan in the NCAA tourney in Milwaukee. After the game, Richardson went to St. Louis to watch Kentucky/Wichita St. He was hosted by Mr. Dave Peacock and toured the potential stadium location and went over the plans and what was involved. In 2013, Charlotte city counsel voted a $125 million dollar renovation for BofA Stadium for a 6 year extension on the lease. In 2020 the Panthers will be franchise free agents. I asked the person I was with if other owners have looked into the St. Louis stadium site and he said, "No doubt about it, but I know Richardson is looking at it closely."
The person then said, "Stan Kroenke is not being a part of the St. Louis stadium plans." That was the end of the conversation.

From what I gathered, and in reading the tea leaves, if the Rams do stay in St. Louis, is appears that Stan Kroenke will not be a part of the organization. Another thing I took away from it was that this stadium project is going forward, with or without the Rams and Stan Kroenke.

Again, the person I am with may be completely full of and lying through his teeth but I don't know why plus he is very well connected in the city. Please don't shoot the messenger. I am a Rams season ticket holder and want nothing more than the team to stay but I am simply relaying what I have been told by someone else. I, personally, have not seen anything myself to confirm any of this but am simply passing it along.

jstriebel · PostNov 19, 2014#182014-11-19T21:32+00:00

^ Link?

9ine Runner · PostNov 19, 2014#192014-11-19T21:48+00:00

^ http://interact.stltoday.com/forums/vie ... &t=1076572

A couple of thoughts, wouldn't AEG be subject to exhausting all options in St. Louis according to bylaws? Second, the majority of an NFL team must be owned by an individual.

I hope, if possible, Khan would return to the picture to buy the Rams. Or all three swap teams. Bowlen gets the Jags to sell, Khan gets the Rams, and Kroenke gets the Broncos with an agreement to cover the difference.

Greatest St. Louis · PostNov 19, 2014#202014-11-19T21:59+00:00

It's funny, a lot of that stuff seems bizarre and outlandish when I first read it, but frankly based on everything that's been "leaked" over the past few weeks it's just as plausible to me as anything.

dweebe · PostNov 19, 2014#212014-11-19T22:25+00:00

Greatest St. Louis wrote:It's funny, a lot of that stuff seems bizarre and outlandish when I first read it, but frankly based on everything that's been "leaked" over the past few weeks it's just as plausible to me as anything.

The Rams already have one ownership swap in their history. It happened back in 1972 when Bob Irsay traded the Baltimore Colts with Carroll Rosenbloom.

goat314 · PostNov 19, 2014#222014-11-19T22:49+00:00

Something like patriots place on the landing would be awesome, it would also technically be TOD if it had good connections to the station down there.

juiceinkirkwood · PostNov 20, 2014#232014-11-20T05:40+00:00

I would write all of that off as hearsay garbage, but there is one angle here where I think it makes sense that Kroenke goes for the Broncos, and that is his Altitude TV station in Denver that airs all of the Avalanche (NHL), Rapids (MLS), and Nuggets (NBA) games. As most or all of you probably know, a Kroenke owns just about everything in Denver. From Josh Kroenke's Wikipedia page;

He is President and Governor of the Denver Nuggets basketball franchise, President and Governor of the Colorado Avalanche ice hockey franchise and Alternate Governor for the Colorado Rapids soccer franchise.

From Stan Kroenke's;

He is the owner of Kroenke Sports Enterprises, which includes the Denver Nuggets of the NBA, Colorado Rapids of Major League Soccer, Colorado Avalanche of the NHL, Colorado Mammoth of the National Lacrosse League and St. Louis Rams of the NFL (the Colorado sports properties are in the name of Josh Kroenke, one of his children, to satisfy NFL ownership restrictions that forbid a team owner from owning teams in other markets).

I didn't realize his group owned the MLS and lacrosse teams in Denver on top of everything else.

All in all, this totally makes sense. The only wild card is owning a team in St Louis, everything else is in Denver, and with NFL's ownership restrictions, it only makes sense that he would want to have his NFL team in Denver, too.

Very, very interesting. And what a play by Kroenke. This dude really wants to own everything - from the stadiums they play in to the TV stations they air on. Wow.

I hope however this shakes out, the Rams are bought by some locals who actually give a crap about St Louis, unlike SK.

dbInSouthCity · PostNov 20, 2014#242014-11-20T13:40+00:00

Chris Mortensen of ESPN about a month and half ago was saying Rams are moving to LA but he has been on CBS920 and espn101 in the last week and has changed his tune 180 degrees, now he is saying there is no way the Rams are a good fit in LA and haven't met the standard to move.

blzhrpmd2 · PostNov 20, 2014#252014-11-20T13:55+00:00

I don't think it is fair to Stan to say he doesn't care at all about STL. I think it is fair to say he cares about his own interests more, especially as they pertain to his Denver holdings. However, if all of his strategic plays end up in the Rams' franchise or another one landing securely in STL, then I wouldn't judge him as an STL hater. It is easy for us to fill in silence with hatred, and it is hard to accept what he is putting us through, but we still really have no clue as to what his ultimate motives are.

I think the majority of the blame still lies in the construction of the lease which set up the environment for wealthy owners to search for better deals.