urbanSTL

Presbyterian wrote:The slow start on this project has raised a few eyebrows. Financing including new markets was complete and buildng permits in place six months ago. With money and politics not the issue, no one seems to know the cause of the delay. It's weird. Maybe some geological surprise, design change, personal situation? Anyone know?

Most likely design changes and this could be why we have not seen any renderings, plans, etc. yet.

pat wrote:It does butt up against the highway. Maybe there could have been an issue with the federal highways or some type of review process required.

Not at all likely-I recently worked on a project abutting I-64 and the only reason MoDOT would step in would be if you are on their R.O.W., which in any case would be illegally and grounds for halting all work.

The slow progress is the history of this developer. Everything he has done was way behind schedule.

Presbyterian wrote:What happened here? I saw two ealier designs that were amazing... and now this?

Was there an architect?

Blah

It appears that they matched some of the material character and design of the Walgreens and slapped it on this building. I'm holding out until I see a Site Plan - right now, there is no context in the renderings to the rest of the existing conditions and it appears that building could just be slapped down anywhere.

I emailed the folks for a Site Plan - will post to the masses if I receive something of value.

I find the placement of the buildings to be more important than the materials. In this day and age, few buildings are going to be built with real red clay brick, so I don’t expect that.

However, I do expect the business to be built to the curb like the Qdoba, Bread Co, FedEx/Kinkos building at Arsenal and Grand. I don’t think that’s a big ask and something that should happen rather easily. Strip malls have no place in Lafayette Square, Soulard, etc.

I just emailed both Alderwoman Phyllis Young and the address on Field Foods.

geoffksu wrote:It appears that they matched some of the material character and design of the Walgreens and slapped it on this building. I'm holding out until I see a Site Plan - right now, there is no context in the renderings to the rest of the existing conditions and it appears that building could just be slapped down anywhere.

I emailed the folks for a Site Plan - will post to the masses if I receive something of value.

A good site plan that addresses the street would make it passable, but the rendering has an odd shadow of a double light standard that suggests a suburban style parking lagoon - not very hopeful

I think this a reflection of another indirect trend that has been happening for years. A trend that financing requires occupancy, leases to be signed first for most or all of square footage built. So you see structures in urban areas with no speculation built into them at all. I believe the site plan/original renderings for the immediate area was a great plan. But is was also a plan that requires some speculation and faith to build out square footage in my opinion. You just don't see project with small square footage footprints go beyond and build for the future. Maybe mistaken, but I think a huge part of is a very risk adverse world in financing/banking.

It also reminds me of Aldi's new store coming to Delmar I believe. The store would so much better if the owner would add 2 o 3 stories of speculative space for either above store residential or small offices. In either case, I think both areas would be ideal places to put some faith in multi story/or dense square footage for the futre

Based on the site work being done already, this building will be in the SW corner near the highway and off ramps. Which means likely a sea of parking in front.

However, I think the lot next to Walgreens is not
part of Fiesta Foods and is still available for development along Lafayette. (Seems like the right size lot for a Dunkin Donuts.)

First I need to compliment Alderwoman Young for responding to my email so quickly. She's usually very good in that regard.

Her response when I asked if the renderings were final and if the business would be fronted by acres of parking:

I agree that a huge parking lot is not an end product that we want; however, the plans eventually will include additional businesses that will be constructed adjacent to the street frontage as I recall. This truly is a 'if you build it, they will come' situation. The Walgreen's is doing quite well. I am sure the Field Foods will also. That will draw additional users to the site. There are also other developments that will be announced for the area in the next few months that will make the site and the area even more of a draw for residents and businesses.
Sincerely,
Phyllis

I received a response from a representative of Saint Louis Food Hub to my question about a Site Plan graphic and the location of the proposed Fields Foods:

Fields Foods will be located directly behind the Walgreens. We do not have a site map to display on our webpage at this time. If you have any more questions please let me know and thank you for your interest in Fields foods. We cannot wait to start serving you and our community!

So...taking all the information we know this is my best guess at what we are getting:

Do you think they might expand the parking lot east of 14th Street?

debaliviere wrote:Do you think they might expand the parking lot east of 14th Street?

They very well could be developing the property directly east of the proposed building into a parking lot - I would actually put my money on that they are since developers read parking minimums and go well beyond that. I see it as being an urban location with the potential for a lot of people walking to this location or taking public transit (MetroBus) that a minimum-sized parking lot would be adequate.

Why not build that store up to Lafayette?

Is there no room?

Is it more costly?

Would a store on Lafayette limit the entrance for the delivery trucks?

What am I missing?

I'm trying to withhold judgment for now, but can't help but be disappointed in that it seems like any suburban grocery store design...store in back, acres of parking in front.

Why does it seem that the ONLY urban-friedly new contruction in S. STL is the Qdoba, FedEx/Kinkos, Panera at Grand and Arsenal?

Relax. Even the older, more elaborate plans always had the grocery store in the back of the property.

It appears that there is still opportunity for a couple of buildings to front Lafayette street in the future on either side of 14th.

roger wyoming II wrote:

jakektu wrote:Relax. Even the older, more elaborate plans always had the grocery store in the back of the property.

It appears that there is still opportunity for a couple of buildings to front Lafayette street in the future on either side of 14th.

I think there is a good chance that more will be built fronting Lafayette before too long. Not sure on your first statement.... were there grander plans for the grocery store at this site?

There were grander plans and, if I remember them correctly, I disliked the anti-urban, anti-pedestrian design then too.

Hey, I completely realize that parking needs to be a large consideration for any retail establishment. I just want us to demand more....There are better designs, much better designs, that reflect an area’s urban surroundings, allow for parking while meeting pedestrian needs. New retail establishments should be built to the street, with parking behind the building. It’s the best of both worlds – better urban design, better for pedestrians, good for cars.

I just dont understand why that seems so hard to do in STL.

Really, we just need to have Steve Patterson get on the developers' case before the first concrete/cinder drops. He might not succeed in getting a street-oriented development, but at least he'll get them thinking twice about how they develop their connection to the street (rather than if they will, as is so often the case).

Sidenote: Is there any plan/effort to continue Lafayette's dedicated bike lanes east past the 18th/the off-ramps and down to Tucker/Soulard?

One of the previous renderings: