Bohemian Hill Mixed Use Development/ Georgian Square

soulardd · PostJan 18, 2007#12007-01-18T04:18+00:00

hackman wrote:I was told two years ago that Guilded Age had an option on the property across the street from The Georgian. Plans were for "stabucks & a cleaners, general retail space".

I couldn't find the thread about the demolition occurring on Bohemian Hill so I am posting it here. My neighbor's friend owns a building just West of Tucker and South of Lafayette, East of where all the buildings were torn down but still on Bohemian Hill. My neighbor just said today he was served with eminent domain papers for his property. She said that he told her a Schnucks and Walgreens are going to be built on Bohemian Hill.

I was really hoping something could be built here that resembles the developments occurring in Lafayette Square. Condos and street level retail. (Grocery store, drug store, etc.) Sure, this'll put a much needed grocery store right by Soulard, Lafayette Sq. and Downtown; but I've never seen a Schnucks that looks like it belongs in the city. This better be different. I'm going to have nightmares that this thing will be just like the Schnucks at Grand and Gravois.

markofucity · PostJan 18, 2007#22007-01-18T04:42+00:00

yeah it better be an urban design - especially if they're using eminent domain ...

jax · PostJan 18, 2007#32007-01-18T05:03+00:00

markofucity wrote:yeah it better be an urban design - especially if they're using eminent domain ...

Sounds like a job for STLUP.

jmedwick · PostJan 18, 2007#42007-01-18T14:52+00:00

Great news for the area if true. Look adding a Schnucks to the area is a good move, one that can only improve its ablity continue growing.

But at the same time, it had better be designed well to fit into the area. Mixed use would of course be the best.

As a side issue, I know alot of these rummors about Schucks moving into the City seem pretty questionable, but maybe, just maybe, Schucks is begining to see that as WalMart pushes hard to take space in the County and eat into its market share, it better start gaining a foot hold in the City and moreover, start gaining a level of comittment from City buyers to Schnucks. Urban style stores within walking distance of dense neigborhoods would give it a level of convience and quality above and beyond what WalMart can do.

brickandmortar · PostJan 18, 2007#52007-01-18T14:53+00:00

SoulardD wrote:
hackman wrote:I was told two years ago that Guilded Age had an option on the property across the street from The Georgian. Plans were for "stabucks & a cleaners, general retail space".

I couldn't find the thread about the demolition occurring on Bohemian Hill so I am posting it here. My neighbor's friend owns a building just West of Tucker and South of Lafayette, East of where all the buildings were torn down but still on Bohemian Hill. My neighbor just said today he was served with eminent domain papers for his property. She said that he told her a Schnucks and Walgreens are going to be built on Bohemian Hill.

I was really hoping something could be built here that resembles the developments occurring in Lafayette Square. Condos and street level retail. (Grocery store, drug store, etc.) Sure, this'll put a much needed grocery store right by Soulard, Lafayette Sq. and Downtown; but I've never seen a Schnucks that looks like it belongs in the city. This better be different. I'm going to have nightmares that this thing will be just like the Schnucks at Grand and Gravois.

I was wondering what was going to be built there. I've heard from good sources that there was a major development going on Lafayette near the Truman interchange, but I didn't know what was being built. Also, there is talk the Gravois ramp may be adjusted to connect to Truman instead, but that is state owned land.

Oh and if it's a Schnucks, expect a cutting edge urban design...

debaliviere · PostJan 18, 2007#62007-01-18T14:55+00:00

This doesn't sound like a good idea to me, at least not in that location.

They better make a huge investment in security.

I picture shopping carts littered all over the neighborhood.

tge-atw · PostJan 18, 2007#72007-01-18T15:54+00:00

If Schnucks puts in a full-on west county supermarket in that space with their typical three acre parking lot, all the people in Lafayette Square would absolutely sh*t. I just don't see it happening. Unfortunately, I also don't see Schnucks changing their business model to suit the neighborhood fabric and putting in some kind of smaller store with an urban design and minimal parking, though it would do wonderfully. Why does everyone get small business loans to start bars? If somebody wanted to start their own small family grocery store there they would do incredibly well.

south compton · PostJan 18, 2007#82007-01-18T16:07+00:00

Does anyone have pictures of an urban designed supermarket? Even in Chicago, all the supermarkets look pretty much the same to me with just different sized parking lots, smaller setbacks, and somewhat smaller buildings (unless they are the first floor of a larger building and have no parking). Its still basically a box with a crappy internally illuminated sign. Same with a Walgreens (although, I've seen some better Walgreens incorporated into urban scapes before--just not in St. Louis).

If I lived in the Georgian, it would be nice to have those amenities nearby, but I'm not sure I'd want right across the street. I can't see it matching aesthetically.

markofucity · PostJan 18, 2007#92007-01-18T16:11+00:00

they definalty COULD desing an urban schnicks there. The spoace is perfect for it. I was REALLY hoping for some nice, dense housing on th eback end of the triangle. I suppose they could stil squeeze it in.

brickandmortar · PostJan 18, 2007#102007-01-18T17:11+00:00

This Ralph's in DT San Diego is about as urban as one can get. It has monitored 2 hour free underground parking and *gasp* no surface lot.

http://www.sandiegometro.com/2002/oct/921012.html

tge-atw · PostJan 18, 2007#112007-01-18T17:34+00:00

Mmmmmmmmmmmmmm, no surface lot.

marmar · PostJan 18, 2007#122007-01-18T17:47+00:00

It scares me that the Schnucks are planning a store here...after the fiasco with Desco/Mark Schnuck tearing down a one of a kind gem (the Century Bldg.) to put in a parking garage...unless they've learned something (which I wouldn't be one bit surprised if they hadn't).

dweebe · PostJan 18, 2007#132007-01-18T18:03+00:00

Would Lafayatte Square residents allow the Schnucks to be built? Didn't they kill every request from the Aldis and old Kroger/National to sell liquor?

Do you think Schnucks would withdraw if the store had to be dry?

thewayofthearch · PostJan 18, 2007#142007-01-18T18:23+00:00

They killed the foodland because while seeking signatures for the liqour license he promised not to sell single serving cans/bottles and not to carry 40 oz. When it came to the excise commissioner he filed for a liqour license that allowed those things.

Obviously the people of LS were worried about 1) his untruthfulness and 2)the crowd and litter such sales would inevitably create.

Not to be rude, but a lot of people might take the stroll from the La saison area through LS to get a drink, or at least that was part of the concern.

The owner of Foodland then pitched a fit, saying he could not afford to stay open without, to which the residents said "f you."

So he closed.

The people in the area, though, were fully ready to let him sell package liqour from 6 pack level on up...just like all Schnucks'.

I don't think its an issue that Schnucks will have to deal with, since selling beer and malt liqour by the bottle isn't their M.O.

soulardd · PostJan 18, 2007#152007-01-18T18:55+00:00

What's the concencus about what it would do for the immediate area? Sure Lafatette Sq. and Soulard people will like having the convenience there, but most of them will have enough of a buffer zone that they won't mind the traffic and people it brings. How about if you just bought a place in the Georgian, one those nice rowhouses on Lafayette, or a newly renovated Condo on the east side of Tucker? How does everyone think those people will be impacted? Think it'll get fought by LS? What are the chances it would have a nice dense design and maybe be flanked by residential? This is just such a prime location being in the middle of Soulard, Lafayette Sq., and Downtown. I think it's development could have a huge impact on each of those vital areas.

dweebe · PostJan 18, 2007#162007-01-18T19:22+00:00

TheWayoftheArch wrote:They killed the foodland because while seeking signatures for the liqour license he promised not to sell single serving cans/bottles and not to carry 40 oz. When it came to the excise commissioner he filed for a liqour license that allowed those things.

Obviously the people of LS were worried about 1) his untruthfulness and 2)the crowd and litter such sales would inevitably create.

Not to be rude, but a lot of people might take the stroll from the La saison area through LS to get a drink, or at least that was part of the concern.

The owner of Foodland then pitched a fit, saying he could not afford to stay open without, to which the residents said "f you."

So he closed.

The people in the area, though, were fully ready to let him sell package liqour from 6 pack level on up...just like all Schnucks'.

I don't think its an issue that Schnucks will have to deal with, since selling beer and malt liqour by the bottle isn't their M.O.

Thanks. My buddy who lived on Park at the time didn't give me that story. He claimed LSquare people wanted it totally dry. The resistance to single bottle sales is completely understandable.

debaliviere · PostJan 18, 2007#172007-01-18T19:33+00:00

If Schnuck's was really serious about getting a store in the area, wouldn't the old Foodland site make a lot more sense? I'm not talking about reusing the old store per se, but building a new store in its place.

trent · PostJan 18, 2007#182007-01-18T19:42+00:00

I'm sure Schnucks likes the convenience of having the 55/44 merger right there. Meaning that they might even catch some people on their way out to the burbs, picking up stuff for dinner.

An urban style store is completely doable. There are very urban style Whole Foods in New Orleans that I've been in. They've got a small, two level parking lot in the rear. And no parking (other than street) in front.

But I just can't stand this tear down mentality. Those houses are nice looking, and could be saved, instead of tearing them down, why don't we work to build a denser area with housing. And not that cheap Pyramid crap like King Louie Square. There's just way too much cool housing stock on Bohemian Hill to be scrapped.

debaliviere · PostJan 18, 2007#192007-01-18T19:53+00:00

trent wrote:But I just can't stand this tear down mentality. Those houses are nice looking, and could be saved, instead of tearing them down, why don't we work to build a denser area with housing. And not that cheap Pyramid crap like King Louie Square. There's just way too much cool housing stock on Bohemian Hill to be scrapped.

Hear, hear!

soulardd · PostJan 18, 2007#202007-01-18T22:00+00:00

Have you been by in the past month? Not too much left anymore.

loulou · PostJan 18, 2007#212007-01-18T23:40+00:00

What worries me is the point someone made earlier about eminent domain. Would the city allow ED to be used to build a Schnucks??

(I just read that last sentence again and now I'm REALLY worried.)

markofucity · PostJan 18, 2007#222007-01-18T23:44+00:00

thats my point exactly ... if they're getting Eminent Domain then we should be able to demand a proper urban development. Schnucks COULD do it .... it is possible. I'd love to see a main parking garage serving the store, a gym and a few stores. If they build a ginormous parkign lot I'll fume ........

jax · PostJan 19, 2007#232007-01-19T02:59+00:00

Fuming about a ginormous parking lot after the fact won't help us in the long run. What can we do before the plans are set in stone to show that a suburban Schnucks will not be good for the City and especially not good for Lafayette Square?

tge-atw · PostJan 19, 2007#242007-01-19T05:09+00:00

For one, you can post old blinky and his three eyes as a guard on the property Jax

. honestly, I think that the amount of clout that resides in Lafayette square and the immediate area should be sufficient to force an acceptable design. I think that the key is simply to create sufficient awareness of the dealings among residents and make sure they know how to make their voices heard. Maybe I'm being naive, but people who have chosen to live in this neck of the woods don't want to live in the suburbs. Besides, a large surface parking lot would take up real estate that could make a developer a load of money if properly used. why squander the space on pavement when it could be turned into money?

framer · PostJan 19, 2007#252007-01-19T05:32+00:00

TGE-ATW wrote: If somebody wanted to start their own small family grocery store there they would do incredibly well.

There's a small, fairly new supermarket on Chouteau just East of Truman Parkway.