urbanSTL

DeBaliviere wrote:"Just put in some sod and fountains and make it a park!!11!!"



/KSDK.com posters



Moorlander represented well...

Thanks... I just don't get it.

"A park would bring people downtown!"

Really? Would it?

"The development will include between 100,000 and 750,000 square feet, including 300,000 square feet of office space in the first phase."



What does that mean? 100,000-750,000. It just said it is already including 300,000sqft of office.



"The retail component will range between 225,000 and 360,000 square feet of space, with 300,000 square feet in the first phase. Between 100 and 250 condos or apartments may be added in a later phase."



Ok, once again, between 225 and 360, then the next line is that it will be 300. So obviously it is more like 300,000 to 360,000sqft.



Am I missing something?

You beat me to it. Can anyone over there add? Or perform basic logic. As written the first stage MUST include 600,000 sq, feet of office and retail. How then can it "range" from 100,000 to 750,000 feet.



too bad we don't have any legitimate journalists in town ... don't expect the Post to get the actual details. Guess we'll have to figure it out for ourselves.

KSDK's somewhat shorter account of the announcement adds the following info:

According to the deal, the city will not use money from the general fund to help finance the project. Any and all public money will come from a portion of future tax revenues of the project itself.

http://www.ksdk.com/news/local/story.as ... 77&catid=3

^^^

The first phase of the project will include hotel, retail and office space only. Between 100 and 250 additional condos or apartments may be added in a later phase. While there is no commitment to condos or apartments in future phases, when complete, Ballpark Village will contain between 50 and 150 residential units, 25 to 200 of which will be in a $110 to $115 million, 8 story residential high-rise tower being considered for the initial phase.

j/k

zink wrote:"The development will include between 100,000 and 750,000 square feet, including 300,000 square feet of office space in the first phase."



What does that mean? 100,000-750,000. It just said it is already including 300,000sqft of office.



"The retail component will range between 225,000 and 360,000 square feet of space, with 300,000 square feet in the first phase. Between 100 and 250 condos or apartments may be added in a later phase."



Ok, once again, between 225 and 360, then the next line is that it will be 300. So obviously it is more like 300,000 to 360,000sqft.



Am I missing something?

This is pure speculation, but my guess is as of today they plan to have 300,000 sq. ft of office space, but it could in reality range anywhere from 100,000 - 750,000. Again, they plan as of today to add 300,000 sq. ft. of retail, but in reality it could be anywhere between 225,000 and 360,000.



Hopefully if they market the Class A office space we'll get the full 750,000 since there seems to be many interested law firms at least downtown looking for new space.



Unfortunately this really provides no insight into what the development will look like, who the tenants will be, if the parking will be above or underground, etc...

So can we assume a similair layout of the first renderings with the later developments being green space or parking till then?

JMedwick wrote:

innov8ion wrote:^ Well, wouldn't the "more than token park space" leave space open for the residential component that many are so vocal about? Would you rather they fill it with more parking garages? Can't have it both ways, eh...

Um no. The last thing downtown needs is more land planted with trees, land that will never be developed because once people get it in their mind that the land is a park it is virtually impossible to get the land developed.



Look no further than the parkland created on the Gateway Mall when the second and third phases for the Gateway One development were never completed or the vocal critics of any plan to make use of the Gateway Mall land for development. Downtown is full of under-utilized park space. The last thing downtown needs is to have the Cards add some more land to that total.



Tragic would be the best word to describe the outcome and frankly, would seriously affect my view of downtown's long term potential for rehabilitation.

There will either be green space or surface parking where the residential you seek would be. So pick your poison.

^^The original renderings are garbage, forget them.

100,000 sf of office space is nothing. 300,000 sf isn't even that much - that's like adding another One City Centre or St. Louis Place to the market (they're both around 350,000 sf).



Let's hope for the perfect balance, so that when firms sign on at BPV, the space that they leave behind actually gets filled. For instance, say Thompson Coburn were to sign on at BPV. Their current space in the U.S. Bank Building might work well for a firm like Husch Blackwell.

KMOX just had the Cards GM on and here is some of what he said.



The office componenet will be larger than the original plans as the tenant interest in office space was greater than they had thought. There will be a 300K SF building out beyond left field.



Ulitimately they will most likely have a larger project when all is said and done.



There will most likely be anchor tenant announcements in the next couple of months.



Grading of the site will begin within weeks and major construction will probably begin at the end of the year. 2/3 of site should be under construction for the all-star game and the remaning areas will be used to stage events for that week surrounding the game.



The interview will continiue tomorrow morning on the Charles Brennan show.

irocktheparty2000 wrote:Ulitimately they will most likely have a larger project when all is said and done.

Larger than what?

jlblues wrote:

irocktheparty2000 wrote:Ulitimately they will most likely have a larger project when all is said and done.

Larger than what?

Southtown Centre.

See, me can talk like Cordish and DeWitt too:



When all is said and done, if everything goes as planned, Ballpark Village could have significantly more office and retail space than it does currently.

It seems to me at 300k sq ft your talking a fairly small building. Is there going to be anything over 20 stories in this thing?

Then there's Jeff Rainford, Hizzoner's CofS, who said "the only risk is building nothing at all". It seems like his tune hasn't changed much from last week, when he said "we're at the point where either we'll get it done or we won't get it done."



Sounds like he has as much faith in the Cardinals and Cordish as me. Can't say I blame him.

jfknet wrote:It seems to me at 300k sq ft your talking a fairly small building. Is there going to be anything over 20 stories in this thing?

The parking garage maybe.

Does anyone have any examples of other cities with office buildings surrounding the baseball stadium so they can see in?



Wouldnt Cordish want to build rather tallish (20+ stories) so their tenants will pay top dollar to see the baseball game.



Does the MLB allow this? The real estate is so prime it is like a free baseball game every game.

NPR's local news report said that there would be a 15 story office tower in left field.

joelkamp wrote:NPR's local news report said that there would be a 15 story office tower in left field.

What a joke, there is suburban office parks with larger towers! Although I am glad something will get built....this project has huge potential to be an even bigger embarrassment. We were all expecting a skyline changing development and now we will get a building that can barely see into the park....whats next? 5 story apartment buildings and McDonald restaurants! The most prime real estate in the region that would sell like hotcakes and this is what we get. Cordish and the Cards really screwed us on this one.

I agree totally. I mean these guys are going beyond safe with this thing. They have beat people down so long you could put a BK and a Starbucks and people would be happy. I mean this should have the biggest towers in town as this is the area people are going to want. I don't care if it takes another year get a real developer that can see the real potential, and give the city something it can be proud of instead of something less than stellar for filler. The cardinals are so clueless that cordish could propose anything and they would be "blown away"

The report did not say that this was going to be only tower or tallest. I have also heard mention of a hotel, maybe it will be taller. My guess is that the 15 story building will be similar to what was shown in the the earlier renderings in the SW corner. If that is the case then maybe the taller towers in the NE corner of those renderings will still be built based on demand, or later phases i.e hotel, office or condo.

Here is an article from KMOV, this clears up some confusion about the ranges in office space in phase 1 and 2 as well as retail in phase 1 and 2:



"-The office component is now a range of between 100,000-750,000 square feet in phase 1. The current plan for phase 2 calls for approximately 300,000 square feet of office.



-The retail component is now a range of between 225,000-360,000 square feet in phase 1. The current plan for phase 2 calls for approximately 300,000 square feet of office. "



Link to full article:

http://www.kmov.com/topstories/stories/ ... d2c5d.html