urbanSTL

innov8ion wrote:

jlblues wrote:Whatever the reason, I no longer believe Cordish is capable of delivering a project that realizes Ballpark Village's full potential.

I think it fair to suggest that it is far more likely that broadly-known market forces are what have shaped this tentative agreement. Granted, you dislike Cordish. But many don't share your opinion.

If a final development agreement had been negotiated and signed over a year ago, before Centene ever got involved, those "market forces" would have had much less effect on the project, and there would be buildings going up right now.



So, ask yourself this: What has Cordish accomplished in the last 18 to 24 months, while those "market forces" were developing?



1 ) Cordish was unable to negotiate any additional subsidy or backing of the TIF bonds from the city.

2 ) The city didn't get any additional commitments from Cordish that increased the scope of the project. As far as I can tell, the only "commitments" from Cordish are that Phase I will include between 100,000 and 750,000 sf of office space and no residential. No commitments for future phases, what they will contain or that they will even happen.

3 ) They were unable to negotiate with a company that would have brought several hundred office workers to Ballpark Village and additional retail, thus making the project more viable and spreading the development risk.

4 ) Ballpark Village has been scaled down to make it - in Cordish's opinion - more viable. They could have easily done this over a year ago.

5 ) They haven't been able to firm up any part of Ballpark Village as far as I can tell.

6 ) If anything, they have lost potential retail and office tenants making it that much harder for Ballpark Village to realize it's full potential.

7 ) They have certainly lost any momentum and "buzz" that Ballpark Village had.

8 ) They have destroyed any goodwill that they and the Cardinals had.

9 ) They have not communicated at all as to the reasons for the delay, their optimism for the project, what it might include in the short-term, in the long-term, etc.. In fact, they don't seem to be involved much at all, or very interested in this project. The info on their website is woefully outdated and they apparently can't even work with the Cardinals and the city to come up with a couple grand to put up a few freakin' "Ballpark Village - Coming Soon" signs.

10 ) They have, however, through the Cardinals, managed to point fingers and come up with all kinds of excuses. It's the city's fault, the state's, Centene's, the Bowling Hall of Fame, aliens, solar flares, etc.

11 ) While they were "negotiating", financing this project has become many times more difficult, and more expensive, and construction cost has probably increased 50%.



You could argue that Cordish "predicted" the market forces that we are now seeing, that they "knew" a long time ago that the project was not viable without additional incentives or backing from the city, and that that is the reason they never signed the original development agreement in the first place. If this is true, then that just proves my point. They never thought this project was going to happen within the timeframe that the Cardinals and the city have declared numerous times, i.e. Phase I open by the All-Star Game, and they certainly don't believe now that it will happen anytime soon.



You could also argue that they simply bit off more than they can chew, and that they will not commit to Ballpark Village, especially under current economic conditions, until a few of their other projects are up-and-running. If this is true, then whose fault is that?



Of course I realize that some of these things are partially outside of their control, but given that Cordish has been unable to make any progress on this project, or even in negotiations on any of these issues, in two years, how can you reach any other conclusion but that they are simply incompetent and should either walk away from the project or be fired?



Put it this way, if you had Cordish's track record as an employee in any position, with any company, do you think you'd still have a job? Would it matter that there were issues beyond your control? Do you think your boss would accept the excuse that it was a difficult project with difficult negotiating partners?

Look guys. Cordish is doing EXACTLY what it should do. Look out for itself.



Our City and "beloved" Cardinals however, should "try" to do what is best for the City and the residents. Those are the ones I hold as the real slackers in all of this. For a project of this importance and visibility, should the city have allowed the developer to stretch things for so long? Should the Cardinals have not taken a more active role in all of this?



All of the entities in this share blame, but the only ones we should have had any expectations should have been our own.

STLDTFAN wrote:Look guys. Cordish is doing EXACTLY what it should do. Look out for itself.

Of course, but they have also shot themselves in the foot - they have lost millions - by not getting this deal done a year ago.

JMedwick wrote:If they are looking for a combined space of 200,000 to 300,000 square feet, they would be a major anchor for either the BPV or better yet a new Class A office tower of their own.



The news of Husch moving would be a good trade-off for downtown if they could also keep Thompson Coburn. My concern is that if they loose both Thompson Coburn and Armstrong Teasdale, downtown will loose its cachet as the location for large regional law firms and Husch may consolidate in Clayton rather than downtown. I think the City must pull out all the stops work with Stifel to get Thompson Coburn to stay downtown as anchors for the maximum 750,000 square feet of office space in the BPV.

Yeah, here's the deal with Husch and Blackwell ... both firms have leases for the next 3 years. There are no plans to break either lease at this point, unless something comes along to change some minds. In 3 years, though, neither legacy firm's current building has enough space for the other. Laclede is old, and Husch's offices are very small. Neither is really up to par for a firm the size of Husch Blackwell.



If they're going to try to keep one of the offices, though, it would be the Clayton office. It's simply newer. And of course, most of those in Clayton want to stay in Clayton, while most of those DT want to stay DT. It's kind of an interesting situation.



In all likelihood, though, they'll have to move to a new building. Either Clayton is going to gain the 100+ attorneys and several hundred support staff of Blackwell, or DT is going to gain the 130 attorneys and several hundred support staff of Husch. There are no other options right now. Both Clayton and DT better be making some serious offers to HBS, because we're talking about a 700 person swing.



Legacy Blackwell Sanders IS leaving the Laclede Gas building in 3 years. Where they go is up in the air. This would be a big loss for DT, not just because of a firm leaving but because they could have prevented that AND gotten Husch back. If there's a better anchor fot BPV, I haven't heard it.



Edit: From what I'm hearing right now, it sounds like Clayton is being favored. I really think it would take BPV to keep everything DT.

Here is a major clue as to what some of the retail tenants of Ballpark Village will be.



From June 19, 2006: http://www.cordish.com/sub.cfm?section= ... e&newsid=2

Cordish Buys License for Future NASCAR Restaurants



By Michael Smith- Sports Business Journal

The firm bought the Orlando and Myrtle Beach NASCAR Cafes and plans to recreate them. Real-estate developing giant The Cordish Co. has purchased two NASCAR Cafe restaurants, in addition to the license for future projects, and will re-brand them under the name NASCAR Sports Grille.



Baltimore-based Cordish, which has licensed Hard Rock Cafe for entertainment and hotel projects and owns the license for Maker's Mark, bought the NASCAR-themed restaurants in Orlando and Myrtle Beach, S.C., for an undisclosed amount from H&C Racing Inc., which formerly held the license for NASCAR Cafe. Cordish intends to build one NASCAR Sports Grille a year and at the same time devise a more contemporary look and feel to the 11-year-old race-themed concept.

I thought the last sentence of the article was amusing:

Cordish has developed Ballpark Village in St. Louis next to the new Busch Stadium and Woodbine Live in Toronto next to the Woodbine Racetrack and Casino, while North Shore Live, an entertainment district near Heinz Field in Pittsburgh, is in the works.

Also, from Feb. 13, 2007: http://www.cordish.com/sub.cfm?section= ... newsid=179

But now Cordish has gone beyond the role of landlord and is owning and operating the restaurants themselves. In most cases, it does so by partnering with a chef or company.



In the past four years, Cordish has invested more than $50 million in 30 restaurants and clubs open or under development in Houston, Kansas City, Mo., Louisville, Ky., Orlando, Fla., and Baltimore. The company will open eight or nine new restaurants this year and at least 10 per year during the next several years, investing at least $50 million per year. The company has hired the former president of the Cheesecake Factory, Peter J. D'Amelio, to head the group starting in March.



"We're risking the family's capital to create something other people deem too difficult to execute," Cordish Vice President Jonathan Cordish said.



Four years ago, Cordish started an affiliate company, Entertainment Concepts Investors LLC, to operate restaurants, clubs and other entertainment venues. Entertainment Concepts employs 1,000, or one-third of Cordish's total staff, in Baltimore and regional offices in Houston, Kansas City and Louisville.



The company plans this year to take two of its local concepts, upscale Towson restaurant Vin and casual Power Plant eatery Mex, to other cities. Cordish is opening a second Vin in Houston and Vinino, a casual version of the concept, in Kansas City, where it will also open a second Mex.

This would explain why there haven't been any rumors about retail tenants signing LOIs, cuz Cordish owns them all.

who's excited for the announcement of this drastically scaled back version?

I'm not excited, but eagerly anticipating.

Thanks, jlblues. NASCAR and "concepts" - I can't wait.



It's interesting to hear media reports that the BPV plans will be "scaled back." The P-D mentioned this morning that the original plans called for 350k sf of retail, 100k sf of office and an optional residential component.



I gotta think there will be way more than 100k sf of office space in the new plan - not exactly "scaled back."

One of those articles said that the theme restaurant business is growing at 5% a year. Americans love their packaged experiences.



I will admit that the Maker's Mark concept sounds cool though.



http://www.cordish.com/sub.cfm?section= ... newsid=222

Moorlander wrote:who's excited for the announcement of this drastically scaled back version?

I'm not the least bit excited, for many of the reasons that jlblues has already stated in his previous posts. And I'm not all that fond of the Cardinals these days, as they have placed the blame for the countless delays and changes to the plans on everyone but themselves.



I expect today's announcement will be slightly more exciting than yesterday's meeting at Union Station. And I expect Ballpark Village to be slightly more exciting than Union Station for that matter. Maybe the Cardinals and Cordish will surprise me, but for now they have lost all credibility IMHO.

The good thing will be that, after 248 pages of discussion, we'll actually be able to talk about real, tangible progress!

My prediction for the announcement:



- ~175,000 sf of retail, in several 2 to 3 story buildings, to include a 4-screen theatre and a concert venue

- 250 room "boutique" hotel

- 350,000 sf of office space, about 300,000 in ~15 stories on top of the parking garage, the rest above retail space

- 40,000 sf building housing Cardinals Museum, team offices, gift shop, and Cardinals-themed bar/restaurant

- 1750 car, mostly above-grade parking garage with ground floor retail

- The rest of Ballpark Village - about half of the total acreage - will be a pocket park and landscaped surface parking (see below).



Estimated Completion date: September 2010, with some retail opening earlier



Much of the site adjacent to Busch Stadium will be prepped for surface parking and a pad for a temporary "Ballpark Village" for the All-Star Game. This is the "construction" that will start by the end of the summer. The layout of Ballpark Village will be adjusted - pushing most of "Phase I" to the north - to allow foundation construction to begin while the temporary structures are in place. This area will be converted to low-rise retail, park, and surface parking after the All-Star Game



No commitments to future phases, but they will give an estimated construction start date for Phase II of late 2012 to early 2013.



About the only thing that won't have been scaled down much is the parking garage.

^ That seems like a reasonable prediction although I don't like the idea of an above-grade parking garage. I understand some people remain bitter, but I believe we will soon see a plan that is a step in the right direction.

^ Well, wouldn't the "more than token park space" leave space open for the residential component that many are so vocal about? Would you rather they fill it with more parking garages? Can't have it both ways, eh...

^I suspect that the Cardinals/Cordish are too cheap to spend money on sod, trees, planters, sidewalks, fountains, etc., only to rip them up in 5 years or so - hence, surface parking.

Approx phase 1 costs 280-320 million

Phase 2 387-600 million



Phase 1 office component between 100k and 750k. Current plan for phase 1 = 300k



Retail comonent between 225k and 360k. Current plan for phase 1 = 300k



Residential component between 100-250 in phase 2



READ MORE HERE





i GUESS THEY DELETED THE STORY... HMMMM

Jblues, I think you hit it right on. It's going to be geared towards landing one of the law firms as well as promoting the theme restaraunt end. Nothing more nothing less. The office tower will and can go up in a hurry if they have a deal in their in the pocket.



I just wish Cordish, Cardinals and whoever is financing would add an extra 10 stories of space on speculation. This space is crying for some vertical towers over time. I would rather see a taller one and rather then more mid range spance



JMedwick, I disagree. Their is nothing in the St. Louis Market that would get any developer to build out $600 million plus of vertical space in one shot that everybody on this thread desires. Even Centene & Brown Shoe intial build outs are only in the $200 million range and they are providing a their own corporate HQ's to make it work. Some surface lot parking even though it is not desireable right now leaves some room for future build outs. Mid or low rise density will offer some restrictions on what will happen in the future.

"Just put in some sod and fountains and make it a park!!11!!"



/KSDK.com posters



Moorlander represented well...

http://stlouis.bizjournals.com/stlouis/ ... st=b_ln_hl

Ballpark Village agreement finalized

St. Louis Business Journal - by Lisa R. Brown



The developers of Ballpark Village announced Wednesday afternoon that an agreement on a $600 million development has been reached with St. Louis city officials.



The first phase of the project, which will include a hotel, retail and office space, will cost between $280 million and $320 million. The development will include between 100,000 and 750,000 square feet, including 300,000 square feet of office space in the first phase. The retail component will range between 225,000 and 360,000 square feet of space, with 300,000 square feet in the first phase. Between 100 and 250 condos or apartments may be added in a later phase.



Pre-construction site work could begin on the 12-acre vacant lot north of Busch Stadium in the coming weeks. When completed, Ballpark Village's project cost will range between $387 million and more than $600 million, according to the statement. The public portion of the financing is expected to close in early 2009.