krykel wrote:phoaddict wrote:Screw all you pessimists. Screw the P-D.
I'm so sick and tired of non-passionate visionless whiners of st. louis. Just because you've never accomplished anything with your lives doesn't mean that you should bring that same sentiment with the city you live in.
I'm happy things are going to move forward, and I look forward to a great development made by a developer with experience all across the country. FINALLY. It's a great stepping stone for the city and a great start at breaking the historic chain of anti-progression and lameness.
This is a great thing!
Amen, the complaining is exhausting.
[rant]
I'll tell you guys what's exhausting: the numerous delays, the occasional and ambiguous statements from the Cardinals and Cordish, the "possible" start dates, the endless changes to the vague "mix" of development, and the multiple announcements of "possible" start dates with no development contracts signed.
I could probably think of a few more things about this project that are getting under my skin, but I guess I'd be whining then.
Some of you really need to understand that those of us critiquing the project here are looking at this much differently than the average person b*tching on STLtoday.com or the television station forums.
Unfortunately, many people on those forums simply couldn't care less about St. Louis, so they'll say it's a waste of taxpayer dollars, and they won't go anyway because downtown is so unsafe. Of course, both of these generalizations are patently untrue. The city has negotiated the best possible deal despite all of the delays, as the city isn't on the hook if revenue fails to meet expectations. And anyone that says downtown is unsafe obviously hasn't been there in 30 years, with the possible exception of walking from Busch Stadium to Stadium West to get to their cars after a game.
Meanwhile, those of us here on this forum that dare to question the direction of the Cardinals and Cordish
love St. Louis. We're passionate and bullish about its future. Most of us live here, and a lot of us work here, and we shop and seek entertainment within its boundaries as much as possible. We're excited by the ongoing renaissance and the amazing transformation of downtown. We want St. Louis to put its best face forward. We believe it's come a long way in a short time, and we're optimistic about continued progress.
We also seek the best and highest uses for areas that aren't living up to their potential. And in the case of Ballpark Village, we've gone from renderings released about eight years ago, to a major announcement in June 2005 when Cordish was picked by the Cardinals as the developer. Then, on October 27, 2006, the two parties announced an agreement had been reached. Then, countless delays ensued, including the brief courtship with Centene, leading up to yesterday's announcement.
Of course, yesterday's announcement did
not include a signed agreement between all parties involved, or any firm construction dates. Office space could be anywhere from 100,000 to 750,000SF in Ballpark Village. Even meteorologists don't use that type of ridiculous range with their forecasts. Oh, and remember when the Cardinals and Cordish were talking about 1,200 residential units? Now it might be 100 or 250, with market conditions to blame. Of course, market conditions wouldn't have really been a problem if the parties involved had their acts together two or three years ago. Recent/current market conditions didn't really impact the sale of the Ballpark Lofts to the west either. Meanwhile, the Cardinals have blamed everyone but themselves for the inaction at Lake Dewitt, for a concept they first shared with the public almost a decade ago.
Although I cannot speak for every 'pessimist' or 'whiner', I must say that up till a few months ago, I was very supportive of this project. I thought the city and state should've approved the initial public funding request, even though I am against public funding of stadiums per se,
because of the potential for Ballpark Village to transform downtown. While I was pleased with the progress throughout downtown, to me this site represented a clean slate with unparalleled 'best and highest use' potential. The Cardinals aimed high with their vision and ignored the naysayers. Then, when it came time for action, they couldn't get the job done. While many parties deserve the blame, the Cardinals ultimately must accept it more than any other party because it is their concept that has yet to be realized.
I wanted the Cardinals to deliver on their original promise. I believe more can be done with the Ballpark Village site than the downscaled plans that were announced yesterday. Because this is a clean slate development, St. Louis should strive for the best and highest use of the land, and settle for nothing. If Cordish and the Cardinals can't deliver, the city should begin the eminent domain process to acquire the land and find a developer that would relish the opportunity to build on such prime real estate. And while I am frustrated by Lake Dewitt, years of fruitless talk, and the lack of a signature development in time for the 2009 All-Star Game, I think St. Louis will be just fine with or without Ballpark Village.
[/rant]
Now that I've had my say, I've got one more thing to say as a moderator: Please remember that ideas and opinions are fair game, but people are not. Nothing said really offended me, but statements like the one below are counterproductive and add nothing to the debate:
phoaddict wrote:Screw all you pessimists. Screw the P-D.
I'm so sick and tired of non-passionate visionless whiners of st. louis. Just because you've never accomplished anything with your lives doesn't mean that you should bring that same sentiment with the city you live in.
I'll happily speak for the other "non-passionate visionless whiners" by saying that you couldn't be further off-base with that remark.
) the story that is one too many. If the former, they will simply cap it off and do the finish work. If the latter, they will promptly remove the steel for the-one-story-too-many, cap it off, and then do the finish work. 
