2,821
Life MemberLife Member
2,821

PostJul 24, 2008#3776

Hey Pho. I had the rendering of Ballpark Village as my Windows desktop background back in 2002 - might have even been 2001 - and followed each announcement closely. There was very little development in downtown St. Louis at that time - a few lofts on 10th Street and the Renaissance Grand (talk about a complex project :shock:) was under construction - that was it! Washington Avenue, Cupples Station, Old Post Office District, etc. were a series of boarded-up buildings and downtown's future was still very uncertain. The idea of a project like Ballpark Village was absolutely huge! Many saw Ballpark Village as a project that would ensure downtown's turnaround. Of course that is nonsense, downtown has been successful without it, and will continue to be.



Now, here we are six years later. We've seen billions of dollars of investment and downtown St. Louis has come farther than even many of the most optimistic people would have thought, yet still no progress on Ballpark Village. The renderings haven't changed much since then, and the only "progress" that has been made in those 6 years is a series of increasingly vague promises with seemingly less and less "vision". We have heard various guarantees that construction would start by 2005, then 2006, then 2007, that Ballpark Village would be completed by the All-Star Game, and now, that there could be some construction activity on the site by the All-Star Game.



And after all this time, we get yet another announcement that an "agreement has been reached" - how many agreements does this one make it so far? - but they still can't tell us what the first phase will include or when construction might start?!? And you wonder why people are pessimistic?



Where were you in 2002, Pho? Were you even aware of downtown's existence then?

63
New MemberNew Member
63

PostJul 24, 2008#3777

Nice comment.



Even if there was a signed contract, it would be effectively unenforceable because it is mostly (if not completely) illusory (i.e., a legal fiction). In other words, Cordish is not committed to anything. There is no enforceable legal obligation against them (except maybe the 100K of space or whetever the minimumly required output is if any).



To me, nothing has changed w/ this announcement except the Cardinals trying to buy more time.

5,433
Super ModeratorSuper Moderator
5,433

PostJul 24, 2008#3778

krykel wrote:Hey, I stand corrected.


No problem. :) I just wanted to point out the clear and drastic difference between the mindless caterwauling that's typical of other local forums and the more constructive criticism you'll generally see here.


krykel wrote:I can admit when I am wrong, however I want to know what WE can do besides talk about it on a forum. I am not being sarcastic, I actually want to know. There are several of us on here that really care about St Louis, strength in numbers, lets talk about a solution.


I'm starting to feel like a politician, because I think you have a great question that deserves a thoughtful answer, yet I don't know what the answer is. The only thing I can suggest (and something I'll do with my own thoughts on the matter as stated above) is to take your concerns about this project directly to the City of St. Louis, the Cardinals, and Cordish. For me, that may result in three very different letters, because I think the blame that can be fairly assessed to each varies.



I would also like to see the media become more critical in their analysis of Ballpark Village. I think Charles Jaco of KTVI has done a fine job of providing updates and taking analysis a step further than his peers.



What really irks me, though, is that the party most responsible for this mess (IMHO, the Cardinals) generally gets a free pass from the community due to the deeply-rooted passion St. Louisans have for their baseball team. I'd love to appeal to our local media to convince them to turn up the heat on Cardinals ownership, but I'm afraid they might be more interested in highlighting the mindnumbing blather that clogs their forums and blogs. (They've gotta direct their viewers to their websites after every story, you know.)


Moorlander wrote:HERE HERE


Right back at you- nice job of representing on the KSDK forums yesterday! =D>

10K
AdministratorAdministrator
10K

PostJul 24, 2008#3779

ThreeOneFour wrote:
I just wanted to point out the clear and drastic difference between the mindless caterwauling that's typical of other local forums and the more constructive criticism you'll generally see here.


That's the great thing about this forum, that most of the opinions expressed here are based on facts, big picture thinking, experience, etc.



Even when I disagree with people here, I still respect their opinions.

508
Senior MemberSenior Member
508

PostJul 24, 2008#3780

Has anyone ever tried to organize a picket line? Why not stand outside the stadium during home games in a large group and express our frustration publicly. My idea to build our own BPV shanty town out of cardboard boxes and cutouts on site never took off. But I'd be willing to revisit it.

14
New MemberNew Member
14

PostJul 24, 2008#3781

I typed a long reply for it to be only deleted because I was kicked off the site before it was sent. So I will summarize that with what I typed with the following.



Ballpark Village is not and will not be the best thing to happen to downtown St. Louis. Don't get me wrong, I want it built, and on a grand scale, as anyone on this forum. In the last decade the development that has taken place downtown is incredible, and someone who hadn't been there since the mid-90's would be amazed.



Since then the downtown population has increased at an arousing pace and even with the market the way it is around the country, St. Louis is not that bad off. Time will only tell, but St. Louis' future should be bright.



People talk bad about St. Louis Politicians, but they are no worse than the majority of the Major cities around the country. No city is perfect, and St. Louis has taken some important steps in the right direction. At the same time they have made a lot of sh*t moves, but you should not expect anything else where ever you live.



Something will be built, and hopefully it is great, but we will have to wait and see.



It would have been nice if the City and County had some more teeth to the deal with the Cardinals, but believe me from experience the developer is always one step ahead of the municipality.



Go Cardinals!

120
Junior MemberJunior Member
120

PostJul 24, 2008#3782

Yeah don't confuse the people on this forum with joe suburbia who thinks a park would do just fine. The people here have broad visions, and want what's best for the city. This is a crucial area and the last thing people want is some rinky dink cookie cutter attraction for the people who come and leave. This needs to have a good sized urban component. Starting off with a 15 story office building out in left field kind of leads me to think they are going the cookie cutter route.

2,430
Life MemberLife Member
2,430

PostJul 24, 2008#3783

Question:



The Mayor clearly took at stand on this most recent agreement, refusing to have the city guarantee the bonds. The trade off for not guaranteeing the bonds is that the City could not get Cordish to commit to residential in the first phase and/or a more significant office component. The City clearly traded uncertainty in what will get built on the site for the certainty of not footing the bill if the project fails.



The question is, given the unique nature of the site and its importance to the overall redevelopment of downtown, was this the right move? Would downtown have been better off with greater certainty that the site would be built at a higher density with high-rise office or residential development?

308
Full MemberFull Member
308

PostJul 24, 2008#3784

ThreeOneFour,



Maybe I was misunderstood. My rant wasn't targeted against you or others that have watched this project closely. It was targeted to those who have done nothing but complain, and scrutinizing every tiny little detail of the project, especially the suburban joe's who are complaining and whining about the details, saying..."let's just build a park" (because of the project being a bit scaled down, aka giving up because you didn't get everything you wanted.) Believe me, I'm pissed off to and recognize the potential of the site and location, but I honestly doubt it's going to be "half assed". It's not going to be bad. It can't be bad. It's going to be great. I also don't think these professionals aren't stupid enough to make the same mistakes as st. louis centre.



None of us know EXACTLY what needs to be built in order for the site to become successful. We don't know exactly what Cordish will do or what retailers they bring in. But it's fair to look at other projects Cordish has done, especially around Baltimore, and see that they have become tourist destinations themselves.



Ballpark village isn't the saving grace of the city. I'm happy of the fact, after centene pulling out, and the wait with crossed fingers as if this is even going forward at all, that news that something is actually going forward.



Sorry if I offended, but please...after reading the posts, to unaware readers, it would seem that some podunk suburban half assed strip mall is going to be built, which is completely ridiculous. The dumbest developers in the world would never do that. ITS NOT GOING TO BE A FREAKING STRIP MALL.



BPV, or what's going to be built, isn't the problem st. louis faces. It's the culture of parochialism, unworldly personality of many citizen and leaders, history of bad decision making, segregation, separatism, and deep rooted pessimism that the city possesses. IMO, the more people that look at these forums for great insight (and great it is) and see complaints from all angles from thought leaders, the worse the reputation BPV will get. So I personally think, in the best interest of the city, to fight our real problems, for those of us that are powerless, let's raise a toast to a step forward.

5,433
Super ModeratorSuper Moderator
5,433

PostJul 24, 2008#3785

phoaddict wrote:Maybe I was misunderstood. My rant wasn't targeted against you or others that have watched this project closely. It was targeted to those who have done nothing but complain, and scrutinizing every tiny little detail of the project, especially the suburban joe's who are complaining and whining about the details, saying..."let's just build a park" (because of the project being a bit scaled down, aka giving up because you didn't get everything you wanted.)


Thanks for explaining your thoughts on the matter in further detail. I just wanted to point out the stark contrast between the constructive criticism about this topic on this forum and the worthless drivel that you'll find on other local forums and blogs. I didn't even waste my time to read them save for Moorlander's comments on KSDK's forum, because I knew exactly what to expect.


I also don't think these professionals aren't stupid enough to make the same mistakes as st. louis centre.


Without a significant residential component, I think it's a risk. St. Louis Centre's problem, other than the small downtown residential population at the time, was that it offered nothing that couldn't be found at suburban shopping centers with free parking. Ballpark Village may offer some unique eateries, but once the novelty wears off, what becomes of it if there's not a significant office/residential population there?


None of us know EXACTLY what needs to be built in order for the site to become successful. We don't know exactly what Cordish will do or what retailers they bring in. But it's fair to look at other projects Cordish has done, especially around Baltimore, and see that they have become tourist destinations themselves.




I'll defer to others that know more about Cordish and specific projects, but I'd say they have a mixed record overall.


Ballpark village isn't the saving grace of the city. I'm happy of the fact, after centene pulling out, and the wait with crossed fingers as if this is even going forward at all, that news that something is actually going forward.


I agree with the former sentiment, and I'll have to wait and see about the latter. Remember, no documents have been signed yet.


Sorry if I offended, but please...after reading the posts, to unaware readers, it would seem that some podunk suburban half assed strip mall is going to be built, which is completely ridiculous.


No apology necessary. :)



The trouble is, the Cardinals and Cordish are offering as few specifics as possible about what they intend to build and when.


IMO, the more people that look at these forums for great insight (and great it is) and see complaints from all angles from thought leaders, the worse the reputation BPV will get. So I personally think, in the best interest of the city, to fight our real problems, for those of us that are powerless, let's raise a toast to a step forward.


I know leaders read our forums, but I'm not so sure that they look to our participants for inspiration, even though I think it would do a lot of good in many cases. 8)



To me the blame for the public's negative view of this project lies squarely with the Cardinals for their empty promises and Cordish for their relative silence throughout this process which began several years ago.



I'll raise my Budweiser for a toast once contracts are signed, tenants are announced, specific plans are available, and a construction start date is set. 8)

200
Junior MemberJunior Member
200

PostJul 25, 2008#3786

When construction begins lets all meet by the hole and have a toast

2,821
Life MemberLife Member
2,821

PostJul 25, 2008#3787

Random Thoughts on Ballpark Village:



Cordish made a name for themselves - and a whole lot of cash - developing entertainment/tourist districts in truly blighted areas where there was very little existing traffic to build upon. The Power Plant District in Baltimore, one of their first large urban revitalization projects, was a collection of empty, polluted industrial buildings and abandoned waterfront on and near largely abandoned piers on the Inner Harbor. The Power Plant building had been mostly vacant for over a decade, with many failed attempts to redevelop it. There was some development nearby, such as the National Aquarium, but the area overall was not particularly tourist-friendly at the time. Cordish made it a success, albeit with a large public subsidy.



In fact, most of Cordish’s early projects would not have been feasible without massive local and federal public assistance and incentives. Even many of their new projects, such as the KC Power & Light District - their largest project to date - is in an area that few would argue is not blighted, and it has been so for a long time. So again, Cordish is trying to create an entertainment district by breathing life into a formerly moribund downtown area. I'm sure that few on this forum would argue that urban revitalization on such a large scale is worthy of some form of public assistance for the developer willing to take on such risk. Furthermore, Cordish does deserve credit for the adaptive reuse of urban land and buildings that would otherwise sit vacant and turning eyesores into tourist-friendly assets.



This, however, may be the root of what appears to be a major misunderstanding and lapse in communication between the Cordish-Cardinals team and the city of St. Louis and larger St. Louis community.



On the surface, Cordish seems to believe that the Ballpark Village site is analogous to these other areas and the other projects that they have undertaken, i.e. that this site is truly blighted and that it would remain vacant absent their best efforts and willingness to take on the tremendous "risk". So, ostensibly, Cordish requires a comparable level of risk reduction to make the Ballpark Village development viable. Of course this is categorically false.



The Ballpark Village site does not require environmental remediation, requires little site prep, there are no existing buildings to renovate, most of the necessary infrastructure is there, there is other nearby development to build upon, far more pre-existing tourist traffic than at any of Cordish's other projects, and on and on. Cordish could not possibly believe this site is truly comparable to their previous projects, so this delay has obviously all simply been a game, to wait as long as possible and embarrass the city into giving into their demands. Sure most developers play such games, no big shock there.



However, maybe because they are used to taking on such high-risk projects, I believe they actually have grossly underestimated the downtown St. Louis market and the potential of Ballpark Village, and have substantially overestimated the risk, the amount of subsidy required to make this project a success, and the desperation of city officials to do anything to get construction started. This is where I believe Cordish has exhibited gross incompetence.



Because Cordish has underestimated the market and overestimated the risk, their calculations for opportunity cost, and the impact on goodwill and the project timeline, are way off. While they have been playing their game, the economy has done a 180 and construction and financing costs of the project have risen dramatically, while citizens and officials have become irate, and tenants are becoming increasingly harder to attract. It seems they also underestimated the value of negotiating a deal with Centene. Now Cordish will have to spend much more to get this project up-and-running, and they will have lost at least a year's worth of profit and a tremendous amount of traffic and national press from the All-Star Game. But worst of all for St. Louis, because of Cordish's incompetence, we will end up with a smaller, less attractive, and less viable, Ballpark Village.

5,433
Super ModeratorSuper Moderator
5,433

PostJul 25, 2008#3788

Like your previous posts on this topic, I agree with everything you said, especially this point:


jlblues wrote:I believe they actually have grossly underestimated the downtown St. Louis market and the potential of Ballpark Village, and have substantially overestimated the risk, the amount of subsidy required to make this project a success, and the desperation of city officials to do anything to get construction started. This is where I believe Cordish has exhibited gross incompetence.


I also thought about one of your previous posts where you mentioned that the original rendering for Ballpark Village was your Windows desktop several years ago. Same here- I had that image on my desktop as well- and it's hard to believe it's been at least six years since those renderings were posted to the Cardinals website. The lack of action six years later is bitterly disappointing, but what's even more bothersome to me is the way in which the Cardinals and Cordish have allowed their once-bold vision to be compromised.

8,912
Life MemberLife Member
8,912

PostJul 25, 2008#3789

Below are some tidbits from the article in the BJ... Click the link below to read the article in it's entirety.






Friday, July 25, 2008

Stifel looks to Ballpark Village for headquarters

St. Louis Business Journal - by Lisa R. Brown

The first office tenant to sign on to anchor Ballpark Village could be one of St. Louis' largest public companies, Stifel Financial Corp. The retail and institutional brokerage and investment-banking firm led by Chairman and CEO Ron Kruszewski -- who helped negotiate the development agreement that was announced July 23 -- is in talks to occupy 150,000 square feet of space at Ballpark Village.



"We think the site is going to be phenomenal, and we're certainly interested," Kruszewski said, adding that a decision has not yet been made on Stifel's office space needs.



Stifel currently occupies 125,000 square feet of space eight blocks away from the Ballpark Village site, at the One Financial Plaza building at 501 N. Broadway. Through its principal subsidiary, Stifel Nicolaus, publicly traded Stifel is in growth mode, with $793 million in revenue in 2007, nearly triple the revenue the company reported in 2005, when it reached $270 million. Stifel has grown both organically and through acquisitions.





...A residential component with as many as 250 condos or apartments may be added in a later phase. The estimated development cost of the project will range between $387 million to more than $600 million, depending on what actually gets built.



St. Louis Cardinals President Bill DeWitt III told the Business Journal on July 23 that the project's initial 15-story office building, to be located across Clark Street from Busch Stadium near left field, will have 300,000 square feet of space.



"That's based on preliminary office commitments we have," DeWitt said. "That will have an unbelievable view into Busch Stadium -- literally a game-day view."



The developers have been in talks with both local and out-of-town potential tenants.



"We have certainly pursued a number of opportunities for companies with headquarters outside of St. Louis," DeWitt said. "Those are tough sells because they require relocations, but we've had a number of those discussions."





...In total, the subsidy approval process is expected to span several months, with construction starting in early 2009, according to the project's developers. Pre-construction site work is expected to begin in the coming weeks.



Office space in the development should be ready for tenants in late 2010. Rents at Ballpark Village -- to feature the first new office tower in downtown St. Louis in two decades -- are expected to start at $30 per square foot.



Several other office tenants scouting for new space have expressed interest in relocating to Ballpark Village, including Kansas City-based law firm Polsinelli Shalton Flanigan Suelthaus, which currently leases space in downtown St. Louis and Clayton. The firm is seeking to combine its more than 150 St. Louis employees in one office, with at least 100,000 square feet of space, said Chairman and CEO Russell Welsh.



Ballpark Village's developers said they'll announce tenant names in the coming months.



The Ballpark Village property, formerly occupied by Busch Stadium before a new stadium was built adjacent to the 12-acre site, has sat idle for nearly two years after Baltimore-based developer Cordish and Cardinals representatives originally announced plans for the project in October 2006.



A familiar name that is emerging as a potential tenant in the restaurant portion of the project is native St. Louisan Danny Meyer.



Now based in New York with several high-profile restaurants there, Meyer is considering opening a restaurant at Ballpark Village through his Union Square Hospitality Group. Meyer already is getting a toehold in the ballpark venue arena; he has a deal for two restaurants at the new New York Mets stadium, Citi Field, slated to open in 2009.



Some tenants that initially considered the project have since lost interest, including St. Louis' largest employer, BJC HealthCare. BJC looked into opening an interactive sports and health center modeled after its BJC SportsWorks exhibit at the Exploradome at the Saint Louis Science Center.


h[url]ttp://stlouis.bizjournals.com/stlouis/stories/2008/07/28/story1.html[/url]

604
Senior MemberSenior Member
604

PostJul 25, 2008#3790

The Business Journal is reporting this morning that Stifel Nicolaus is considering moving their HQ to Ballpark Village. They currently occupy 125,000 sq. ft at 501 N. Broadway but are seeking 150,000 sq. ft to move into.



The Journal also reports that Polsinelli Shalton Flanigan Suelthaus, based in KC is considering consolidating their downtown and Clayton spaces into more than 100,000 sq. ft. of space in Ballpark Village. According to Cordish, there has been other interest inside AND outside of St. Louis for the office space although they concede it's much harder to convince companies outside of STL to relocate due to the cost.



If both Stifel and Polsinelli Shalton Flanigan Suelthaus do sign on space, that would already fill at least 275,000 of the 300,000 sq. ft. of office space they currently plan for Phase I.



I'm really hoping (and based on the fact no Class A office space has been built downtown in 20 years) truly believe that they will need to build at least 600,000 sq. ft. of office space in Phase I. Figure if at least 1 of the large law firms decides to stay downtown instead of move to Clayton and they attract another tenant, that would probably consume most of 600,000 sq. ft. If Cordish builds all that office space in 1 tower, we'd be looking at 30 stories or so which is pretty decent.

2,430
Life MemberLife Member
2,430

PostJul 25, 2008#3791

A few thoughts:



1. 150,000 isn't much space, though it is more than currently downtown. Given that Stifel has added office space in the County, the City should be working to make them a larger anchor by seeking to combine all Stifel space in downtown.



2. The article sites that a local law firm is interested in 100,000 sf in the complex. So in total, that would be commitments for 250,000 sf.



3. The 150,000 sf for Stifel is less than the amount sought by major local law firms like Husch. Given the impending loss of a few other major law firms from downtown and the ostensible ability of the BPV site to accommodate up to 750,000 sf of office space, the City should be working hard to get more than just these two commitments, focusing on bringing Husch downtown to add a 250,000 sf commitment of its own. If all three were anchors, then you are talking 500,000 sf of office commitments and maybe another 100,000 of speculative space, enough for one or two good size office buildings in the complex.



4. It is interesting to hear people talking about the old renderings. I think it is useful to think about the initial visions put out in the late 1990's, when the BPV would have included and aquarium. Remember none of those original images included any buildings over 10 stories. Rather the BPV was to be like a six block expansion of the Cupples district eastward. The idea that it could be a site for high-rise office or residential didn't start till the second round of vision plans, which included on high-rise building in the middle of the site.

10K
AdministratorAdministrator
10K

PostJul 25, 2008#3792

This is a good start. Hopefully the Stifel commitment will make this development seem more "real" to any firms that might be considering moving out of downtown.



It would be great to get Polsinelli nailed down. A commitment from Thompson Coburn, either to stay at the U.S. Bank Building or to move to BPV would be even better. It would be great to see them stay where they are so as to keep the game of "musical chairs" to a minimum.



Stifel will be vacating some high quality space, which will hopefully be attractive to someone. At some point, it would be nice to land a firm that's not already doing business downtown.

2,821
Life MemberLife Member
2,821

PostJul 25, 2008#3793

JMedwick wrote:4. It is interesting to hear people talking about the old renderings. I think it is useful to think about the initial visions put out in the late 1990's, when the BPV would have included and aquarium. Remember none of those original images included any buildings over 10 stories. Rather the BPV was to be like a six block expansion of the Cupples district eastward. The idea that it could be a site for high-rise office or residential didn't start till the second round of vision plans, which included on high-rise building in the middle of the site.
I remember those very, very early renderings with the aquarium in the southwest corner of the site (I think the facade along Clark was shaped like a whale?). I think even then though they were talking about residential on the site, because I remember a description of townhouses along Walnut across from the Ballpark Hilton.



In any case, I'll have to see if I can find it, but the rendering I had on my desktop in 2002 was very similar to the most recent pre-Centene renderings (which you can still see on the Cordish website), with three high-rise towers along the east edge of the site, a 15-20 story building on the southwest corner, and a museum and low-rise buildings in between. The only things that have changed as far as I can tell are sleeker designs for the high-rise towers and the location of the park/plaza, which was moved from the area directly across Clark from left-center field to the northeast quadrant of the site. The overall height and density though was pretty much the same. Yes, that was six years ago.

PostJul 25, 2008#3794

:lol: Ran across this article in St. Louis Commerce mag from 2006. It's interesting to go back and see what was being said then. Wow, actual quotes from Cordish! :shock:



http://www.stlcommercemagazine.com/arch ... llage.html


Downtown dwellers and visitors alike will soon see changes to the St. Louis Skyline when construction begins in early 2007 on Ballpark Village.



The $700 million mixed-used retail, entertainment and residential district will be developed in partnership by The Cordish Company of Baltimore and the St. Louis Cardinals. The development, which will cover six city blocks and directly connect to the new Busch Stadium, will feature 360,000 square feet of retail/entertainment, 1,200 residential units situated in three towers, and 300,000 square feet of office space.



Bill DeWitt III, senior vice-president of the Cardinals, and Blake Cordish, vice president of the Cordish Company, say that while they are still in negotiations with the City over some points of the development, the project promises to enhance St. Louis’ already growing reputation as the place to live, play and do business.

“They’ve (Cordish) turned these projects into great areas by creating a critical mass of residential, retail and office, and we can do the same thing here,” DeWitt says. “We’ve even got a head start in terms of how great the site is, with the ballpark drawing in excess of three million people annually.

City and county leaders have stressed that the Ballpark Village was an integral part of the Busch Stadium project as part of receiving public support.



DeWitt says they are still in financial negotiations with the City. “The nice thing is that there’s a huge economic benefit to the City because it’s so retail intensive. We’re confident that the funding gap, which is primarily due to the fact that the site lacks infrastructure such as streets and utilities, can be taken care of primarily through the Tax Increment Finance (TIF) process.



These negotiations will also determine the Village’s construction schedule. “We are optimistic that we will reach agreement with the City shortly, which will enable the first phase of Ballpark Village to open in 2008,” Cordish says.



Referring to a recent issue of Urban Land Institute, Cordish discussed an article that analyzed cities, such as Baltimore Md., and Charleston, SC, who changed their destiny.



“The article concluded that, in each, case, the key to the turnaround was a major development coming in and spurring it on,” he says.



“One of the exciting things in terms of downtown St. Louis is that there is a real energy that’s forming. It’s a critical time in a lot of ways for downtown which is the ideal time for a catalytic development to anchor and bring the city to the next level.”

2,430
Life MemberLife Member
2,430

PostJul 25, 2008#3795

A blast from the past:




2,821
Life MemberLife Member
2,821

PostJul 25, 2008#3796

A trip down memory lane:



Edit: *Delete* Nevermind, JMedwick got this one.







The one JMedwick posted has the aquarium in the sw corner and one residential building. Meh, I don't know anymore, maybe that is the one I had on my desktop, but I swear it had at least one more tower along Broadway. And I know there was a bird-eye view rendering with a plaza right in the center of the site along Clark (you can see the plaza in this first rendering).

PostJul 25, 2008#3797

"St. Louis’ Ballpark Village… 'Baghdad on Broadway'"



http://thesportsroadtrip.wnymedia.net/b ... -broadway/

1,099
Expert MemberExpert Member
1,099

PostJul 25, 2008#3798

And a few others that were missed:






2,821
Life MemberLife Member
2,821

PostJul 25, 2008#3799

Mill204 wrote:
This is a view looking east down Walnut, with retail and townhouses along Walnut and the condo/apartment tower rising behind. While the design could use a bit of tweaking, conceptually this is my ideal Ballpark Village. How did it stray so far away from this?

10K
AdministratorAdministrator
10K

PostJul 25, 2008#3800

jlblues wrote:
Mill204 wrote:
This is a view down Walnut, with retail and townhouses along Walnut and the condo/apartment tower looming above. While the design could use a bit of tweaking, conceptually this is my ideal Ballpark Village. How did it stray so far away from this?


Probably because that was pre-Cordish.

Read more posts (960 remaining)