urbanSTL

Stay focused pleased

Cordish was the wrong choice from the beginning for both Missouri Projects... they are in the business of making sure their development succeed – not in the business of making CBD succeed, as both cities has hoped. P&L in KC doesn't fit in with the surrounding urban streetscape and they played musical chairs with KC’s local restaurants; as a result good urban areas like Westport are hurting. Cordish was SO happy when they got an open beverage ordinance passed for P&L and then objected when other districts wanted the exact same thing. I don’t want to mention their huge intense push to get the Pujols’ Pond even started... They have shown no initiative on anything but public misinformation (remember when Fox 2 said Centene pulled out and they denied it – then the next day the story was confirmed). I am sure the public "will know" (for the 5th time) what is planned soon, but there will be no equipment, alas just a grassy knoll come next summer. I think Cordish should be fired and the powers that be should hire somebody, anybody with a desire to make this one try succeed. But alas, my last name is not DeWitt.



Now that we are going to be the North American headquarters of the biggest beer company in the would, I think an 8 or 10 story retractable roofed beer garden would be a great addition to the top of a 81 story building at corner of Clark and Broadway.

tbspqr wrote:But alas, my last name is not DeWitt.

Exactly. There's nothing we can do to change who the developer is.

phoaddict wrote:I don't think it's logical think as bpv as a cannibal district. i think it will serve as a district that we are lacking in -- a MODERN family oriented centralized tourist destination (that also caters to dt residents and workers).

Again, answer this question, "What will be different about Ballpark Village that will make tourists uninterested in any of the existing areas downtown want to go hang out there?"



Give me an equivalent in or around another city's downtown of what you think Ballpark Village should be. From what you have said, it sounds like you want Ballpark Village to be something like Navy Pier, but "centralized".

phoaddict wrote:From what i've seen in other successful cities, people like an area designated for one thing and the proximity of being able to walk from one experience to the other. Let's check out shopping district. Let's check out the restaurant district. Let's check out the club and bar district (like adam's morgan in DC). If i hang out in wicker park for the night, chances are i'm not going anywhere else. I want to walk from one bar to the next right next door to each other.

Wow. I couldn't disagree more. All the famous areas of other successful cities' downtowns work so well precisely because they don't have one designated purpose. They have many different coexisting uses, so they are always active. Michigan Avenue may be the "Shopping District" of "downtown" Chicago, but it draws so many people because it is really an urban neighborhood, packed full of apartments, condominiums, hotels, restaurants, bars, and theatres, all of which is anchored by several cultural and tourist destinations.



I think there is a tendency for people to want to try and pack everything that is missing from downtown St. Louis into Ballpark Village, and frankly, I have been guilty of that as well. Ballpark Village will only be successful though if we look at it as simply a hole (literally and figuratively) in the fabric of downtown St. Louis. There is an opportunity to remake this hole, this part of downtown, in the image of what a small piece of a successful downtown would look like. But trying to make it any kind of self-contained district, or destination unto itself, or the salvation of downtown St. Louis, is destined to fail.



I wouldn't mind having some of those great national restaurant and bar chains downtown, but what if, instead of putting them all in Ballpark Village, downtown had the following:



ESPN Zone, House of Blues, Hofbräuhaus, and Ruby's Diner in Ballpark Village

Hard Rock Cafe, Jillian's, Dave & Buster's, and Rainforest Cafe at Union Station

Claim Jumper, Coyote Ugly, and Pappadeaux Seafood Kitchen on Laclede's Landing

Yard House and Rock Bottom Brewery in Cupples Station

Smith & Wollensky on Market or Chestnut overlooking Kiener Plaza

Red Star Tavern at Locust and 21st

Roy's Hawaiian Fusion Cuisine in the Pointe 400 building

SushiSamba at Washington and Tucker

The Capital Grille and Fogo de Chão at Laurel/St. Louis Centre

Elephant & Castle in the Arcade

Whiskey Bar in the Roberts Tower (don't think this is a chain, but it should be)



Then sprinkle all of your Apple Store, Best Buy, Barnes & Noble, Borders, CVS, Whole Foods, Trader Joe's, etc. in between these...



Bottom Line: Downtown shouldn't have "districts" at all. Emphasis should be on making downtown a cohesive whole, bringing in new residents, new office workers, and new retail enterprises throughout downtown, filling empty storefronts, filling empty lots, making a uniform, well-designed and landscaped streetscape, and improving pedestrian accessibility and flow.

^Exactly. We want incremental improvements and changes, not cataclysmic additions.

Bill DeWitt is not some idiot that thinks an ESPNzone and an O'Charley's is going to make a successful BPV. I have heard him speak (for whatever thats worth..) and has said his goal is to create a truly unique urban environment, a neighborhood. I believe he actually studied urban planning at Stanford (?). We will certainly see what happens. I don't know anyone that wants a Six Flags "mainstreet" meets the downtown street grid.

It would be great to have all those afore mentioned national chains scattered throughout downtown. The problem is that devolvement like that does not usually happen on its own it takes a focused approach to promote and attract those type of businesses. Successful districts like Brentwood Square, the Boulevard, the Grove and the Loop have only succeeded because there were strong individuals that aggressively went after specific tenants mixes. At this point I believe only groups like Cordish and General Growth (of Mercantile Exchange) are our best hope. I was hoping the cities retail guru would be that person but have yet to see it. Perhaps Slay would be willing to appoint the Gills or Joe Edwards to be the new overseer of retail development.

Here it comes...



From today's Wall Street Journal:



St. Louis: Anheuser Bid Stokes Angst in Slumping Region

Questions about the future of Ballpark Village, regarded as key to the city's revitalization, also hang over the downtown market. Bill DeWitt III, president of the St. Louis Cardinals baseball team, which is co-developing Ballpark Village with Baltimore-based Cordish Co., says the group is negotiating an agreement with the city for the publicly financed portion of the project amid changing market conditions and the loss of Centene as a tenant. He also said the residential component of the project will be postponed to a later phase, a response to the housing-market slump.



Mr. DeWitt remains hopeful that the project will move forward and one day provide Cardinals fans with the variety of entertainment options offered outside other parks around the U.S. Still, planners are considering alternative plans for beautifying the site. "If we're not going to get the deal done," says Mr. DeWitt, "that would suggest we'd cap it, grade it, seed it and maybe build a park."

Read More

they were discussing this on 1380 this AM. Kilkoyne was sitting in and mentioned that he thought DeWitt was joking when he said that and not to take it too seriously.

^he better be kidding! Unless he wants this "park" to be some sort of memorial garden--for himself.

I saw this as the lead story on the 6:00 news last night. Even more shocking is the City welcomed it, well at least Darlene Green. Thank God, because a park looks much better than Centene's HQ.



http://www.kmov.com/video/topvideo-inde ... vid=261842

ChrisInDownTown wrote:they were discussing this on 1380 this AM. Kilkoyne was sitting in and mentioned that he thought DeWitt was joking when he said that and not to take it too seriously.

It was an interview with the Wall Street Journal. If he was joking, that is a really poor time to do it.

Darlene Green like the rest of the city officials are ridiculous. The Cards, Cordish, and City Officials really stuck it to us on this one. A Park?!!!!! What tourists would think a damn park was so fascinating! Its not like Downtown is lacking open space! This is bullsh*t, the Cardinals totally went back on their words.

If they build a park in ballPARK Villiage, I am moving out of this city!!!







Not really- but this is just dumb.

Reminds me of the "Clayton Hole".... If they make it a park, it will be that way for 30yrs.

^Ooooo, I hope it has ducks like the Clayton Hole! I like ducks.

However the development that is taking place on the "Clayton Hole" is well worth the wait. I'm glad some half assed project wasn't built just to fill up a vacant lot, its been more organically done.

I was just thinking that if they build a park and say throw in some small buildings and some artwork (think sculpture garden 2 blocks away) it may approach the $60 million total needed to avoid the penalty. Therefore the cards would be "off the hook" for the rest of the development.





Hope not...

^ That would sure build some "good will"

Think sculpture garden and a cards museum. And of course.....drum roll..... a parking garage!!!

I looked, briefly, but didn't find the answer to this: Does, or will, Cordish own the KC Power & Light District property, or are they leasing it? If they are leasing it, who owns the property?