And I'm thinking about making a bumper sticker:
Still pissed at Centene.
Still pissed at Centene.
I just noticed last night that in MLB The Show for Playstation 2/3 that they have Ballpark Village. Looks pretty cool. Granted, it's not THE Ballpark Village, but it's cool that they have something pretty similar.
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Good to know that game designers have more vision than "developers"
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It would be nice to not have to see the Stadium East parking garage. Looks like the STL Community College building was shifted to the north in that pic.
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ST. LOUIS — The St. Louis Cardinals, under pressure from city leaders, are cleaning up the site of the long-delayed Ballpark Village project adjacent to Busch Stadium.
The weeds have been cut and the trash picked up from around the chain-link fence. Water is being pumped from a large hole that has turned into a pond. But what will happen beyond that is unclear.
Cardinals President Bill DeWitt III said Monday that the team is studying fencing options and wants to put up something that is durable and attractive. The Cardinals will likely wrap the fence with renderings and "coming soon" signs. But until the revised design plan is more solid, the existing chain-link fence surrounding the more than eight-acre site will remain.
"Had we known two years ago that we were going to have a two-year delay, we'd have done things differently," DeWitt said. "We're always working under the assumption that you've got to be nimble and ready to go."
The cleanup work started after Alderman Fred Wessels, who controls the fate of legislation to start building Ballpark Village, took a hard stance on cleaning up what he called "Baghdad on Broadway." Wessels sent a letter to acting Building Commissioner Frank Oswald June 20 urging him to send inspectors to the site.
"For more than two years, the owners have allowed the property to remain the largest mud hole in any downtown in the Midwest," Wessels said in his letter. "I consider the condition of the property to be an insult to the citizens of the St. Louis metropolitan area — the same people who helped to fund the new baseball stadium."
Wessels is chairman of the committee that must pass the new Cardinals development bill before it can go to the full Board of Aldermen for a vote. The team is looking for the city to help construct streets and utilities through the Ballpark Village site, using money from the increased taxes of the multi-use development to fund the improvements. The initial plan included $100 million in tax subsidies.
Following the letter from Wessels, Mayor Francis Slay posted a message to Ballpark Village developers on his website last week.
"Nobody, including me, likes That Hole. Please do something with it now," Slay said. "City inspectors will be visiting That Hole this week. Please let them know your plans for it."
On Monday, a Slay spokesman said the online posting still stood as the mayor's position.
Public Safety Director Charles Bryson said he and Oswald will meet with Cardinals officials later this week. If the land is considered a demolition site, then the Cardinals would be urged to fill it in and seed it. But if it's a construction site, as DeWitt maintains, then the city and the Cardinals would reach agreement on how to keep the six blocks of land looking acceptable until construction begins, Bryson said.
Wessels said there is no need to ask the Cardinals to distinguish what kind of site it is.
"It's a construction site. We've passed bills and approved state financing based on the fact that is a construction site," Wessels said Monday. "They need to do anything they can to make the appearance less offensive."
DeWitt said criticism of the site's appearance is justified and the Cardinals are working to make it better. The team may grade the property, as suggested by Wessels, but it wants to make sure the final design can utilize the extra dirt that grading would require. Bringing in dirt that would only have to be hauled away when construction begins is counterproductive, DeWitt said.
DeWitt declined to give a groundbreaking date, but he agreed with city leaders that construction is unlikely until early next year. Initially, the first phase of Ballpark Village was to be open in time for the All-Star Game, which will be played at Busch Stadium in July next year.
If the Cardinals have not completed at least $60 million in development by 2011, the team would be penalized $3 million a year, according to its agreement with the city.
Ballpark Village was first pitched by the Cardinals in 2001 as a new neighborhood, a place to live, work and play on the grounds of the old Busch Stadium. It was a way to make public financing for a new stadium more palatable.
The city eventually agreed to waive the 5 percent tax on tickets at the new stadium, saving the team at least $3 million a year.
Work was to have begun on Ballpark Village in spring 2007, a year after Busch Stadium opened. Then it was summer 2007. Then fall. In September, the city announced with great fanfare that Clayton-based Centene Corp. was moving its headquarters to Ballpark Village. Construction was put on hold while the Cardinals and their development partner, Cordish Co. of Baltimore, reworked the plan to include the $250 million Centene portion. But six months later, the health care company pulled out.
The Cardinals are again reworking the original $387 million plan. This time, however, there will be less residential and more office space or a hotel. But when construction will start, DeWitt would not say:
"Every time I've done that so far, I've been burned."
The weeds have been cut and the trash picked up from around the chain-link fence. Water is being pumped from a large hole that has turned into a pond. But what will happen beyond that is unclear.
Cardinals President Bill DeWitt III said Monday that the team is studying fencing options and wants to put up something that is durable and attractive. The Cardinals will likely wrap the fence with renderings and "coming soon" signs. But until the revised design plan is more solid, the existing chain-link fence surrounding the more than eight-acre site will remain.
"Had we known two years ago that we were going to have a two-year delay, we'd have done things differently," DeWitt said. "We're always working under the assumption that you've got to be nimble and ready to go."
The cleanup work started after Alderman Fred Wessels, who controls the fate of legislation to start building Ballpark Village, took a hard stance on cleaning up what he called "Baghdad on Broadway." Wessels sent a letter to acting Building Commissioner Frank Oswald June 20 urging him to send inspectors to the site.
"For more than two years, the owners have allowed the property to remain the largest mud hole in any downtown in the Midwest," Wessels said in his letter. "I consider the condition of the property to be an insult to the citizens of the St. Louis metropolitan area — the same people who helped to fund the new baseball stadium."
Wessels is chairman of the committee that must pass the new Cardinals development bill before it can go to the full Board of Aldermen for a vote. The team is looking for the city to help construct streets and utilities through the Ballpark Village site, using money from the increased taxes of the multi-use development to fund the improvements. The initial plan included $100 million in tax subsidies.
Following the letter from Wessels, Mayor Francis Slay posted a message to Ballpark Village developers on his website last week.
"Nobody, including me, likes That Hole. Please do something with it now," Slay said. "City inspectors will be visiting That Hole this week. Please let them know your plans for it."
On Monday, a Slay spokesman said the online posting still stood as the mayor's position.
Public Safety Director Charles Bryson said he and Oswald will meet with Cardinals officials later this week. If the land is considered a demolition site, then the Cardinals would be urged to fill it in and seed it. But if it's a construction site, as DeWitt maintains, then the city and the Cardinals would reach agreement on how to keep the six blocks of land looking acceptable until construction begins, Bryson said.
Wessels said there is no need to ask the Cardinals to distinguish what kind of site it is.
"It's a construction site. We've passed bills and approved state financing based on the fact that is a construction site," Wessels said Monday. "They need to do anything they can to make the appearance less offensive."
DeWitt said criticism of the site's appearance is justified and the Cardinals are working to make it better. The team may grade the property, as suggested by Wessels, but it wants to make sure the final design can utilize the extra dirt that grading would require. Bringing in dirt that would only have to be hauled away when construction begins is counterproductive, DeWitt said.
DeWitt declined to give a groundbreaking date, but he agreed with city leaders that construction is unlikely until early next year. Initially, the first phase of Ballpark Village was to be open in time for the All-Star Game, which will be played at Busch Stadium in July next year.
If the Cardinals have not completed at least $60 million in development by 2011, the team would be penalized $3 million a year, according to its agreement with the city.
Ballpark Village was first pitched by the Cardinals in 2001 as a new neighborhood, a place to live, work and play on the grounds of the old Busch Stadium. It was a way to make public financing for a new stadium more palatable.
The city eventually agreed to waive the 5 percent tax on tickets at the new stadium, saving the team at least $3 million a year.
Work was to have begun on Ballpark Village in spring 2007, a year after Busch Stadium opened. Then it was summer 2007. Then fall. In September, the city announced with great fanfare that Clayton-based Centene Corp. was moving its headquarters to Ballpark Village. Construction was put on hold while the Cardinals and their development partner, Cordish Co. of Baltimore, reworked the plan to include the $250 million Centene portion. But six months later, the health care company pulled out.
The Cardinals are again reworking the original $387 million plan. This time, however, there will be less residential and more office space or a hotel. But when construction will start, DeWitt would not say:
"Every time I've done that so far, I've been burned."
What a complete joke and missed opportunity this whole thing has become.
Centene made the city look bad.
The hole makes the city look terrible.
It's a missed opportunity to showcase the new downtown for the only All-Star game St. Louis will have for a long, long time.
The penalties are a joke as well. $3 million is nothing but a drop in the bucket to The Cardinals.
Centene made the city look bad.
The hole makes the city look terrible.
It's a missed opportunity to showcase the new downtown for the only All-Star game St. Louis will have for a long, long time.
The penalties are a joke as well. $3 million is nothing but a drop in the bucket to The Cardinals.
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TB1000 wrote:What a complete joke and missed opportunity this whole thing has become.
Centene made the city look bad.
The hole makes the city look terrible.
It's a missed opportunity to showcase the new downtown for the only All-Star game St. Louis will have for a long, long time.
The penalties are a joke as well. $3 million is nothing but a drop in the bucket to The Cardinals.
Just imagine if they would have had a plan in place and financing arranged so that construction could have begun as soon as the new Busch opened. Despite the Centene fiasco, I have no idea why it's taken so long...unless they never actually planned on building anything.
Sell off the land to other developers. F--- Cordish and the cookie-cutter entertainment district.
I suppose it’s at a point where it’s acceptable to begin a letter writing campaign to Alderwoman Phyllis Young demanding that the city begin the process of eminent domain.
This is a farce and the cardinals, Mayor Slay, and cordish should be held responsible.
This situation has been way too protracted…..
Here’s a link to Alderwoman Phyllis Young email:
http://stlcin.missouri.org/index/contactald.cfm?Ward=7
This is a farce and the cardinals, Mayor Slay, and cordish should be held responsible.
This situation has been way too protracted…..
Here’s a link to Alderwoman Phyllis Young email:
http://stlcin.missouri.org/index/contactald.cfm?Ward=7
bonwich wrote:"We gotta build a new Busch! It'll spur a Ballpark Village!!! Subsidize us!" See above, then see lot adjoining new Busch.
On the other hand, would development have occurred in this case if Cards/Cordish did not control the land? Cupple's Station sure has taken off.
Cupples Station is not in the same league as this proposed development. They are two completely different things.
I'm really mad about this whole thing but equally pissed about the "penalties." You mean to tell me that if they haven't built $60 MM on that site by 2011 (which PV means that the costs are lower and we won't get as much with that $60 MM) then The Cardinals only get slapped with a $3 million penalty? Yeah, that will teach them! The only people to get hurt by that will be the fans because the Cardinals will just raise ticket prices by $1 (they draw 3 MM fans annually) to pay for that fine.
This has gone beyond absurd. It's a total slap in the face to the residents and the city.
I'm really mad about this whole thing but equally pissed about the "penalties." You mean to tell me that if they haven't built $60 MM on that site by 2011 (which PV means that the costs are lower and we won't get as much with that $60 MM) then The Cardinals only get slapped with a $3 million penalty? Yeah, that will teach them! The only people to get hurt by that will be the fans because the Cardinals will just raise ticket prices by $1 (they draw 3 MM fans annually) to pay for that fine.
This has gone beyond absurd. It's a total slap in the face to the residents and the city.
You missed the point of my post. It's not that the ballpark has failed to encourage development, it's that the Ballpark Village site (the one we are all mad about and the most prime) is controlled by a developer that has failed.
On the other hand, maybe the market wasn't actually there for what everyone thought would work...
On the other hand, maybe the market wasn't actually there for what everyone thought would work...
I think the market has nothing to do with this.
IMO, it seems to be a power struggle between the Cardinals and Cordish. On top of it, I'm sure the Cardinals don't want to deal with the headache for something that they don't get 100% of the profits from and Cordish dragged their feet for so long in KC that they may have focused their attention on it.
Let's not forget Centene. I think that if they didn't make any plans to come downtown in the first place that BPV just might be under construction right now. They definitely threw a big rusty wrench into things.
IMO, it seems to be a power struggle between the Cardinals and Cordish. On top of it, I'm sure the Cardinals don't want to deal with the headache for something that they don't get 100% of the profits from and Cordish dragged their feet for so long in KC that they may have focused their attention on it.
Let's not forget Centene. I think that if they didn't make any plans to come downtown in the first place that BPV just might be under construction right now. They definitely threw a big rusty wrench into things.
TB1000 wrote:I think the market has nothing to do with this.
Took so long that the market may have something to do with it now. Either way, was just throwing out a potential idea.
The Centene entrance and exit no doubt is part of the delay. I don't know about the power struggle. If there was a power struggle, I don't think Cordish would be involved any longer.
MidcoastSTL wrote:
"Every time I've done that so far, I've been burned."
I hope he's not expecting any sympathy here. Do what you're say you're going to and you won't have to worry about getting "burned" Bill.
Also, remember not to call the area Lake DeWitt that gives him too much credit and I'm sure in some sick way Bill enjoys that, please kindly refer to it as Pujol's Pond.
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SoulardD wrote:How bout Lake DeDimWitt? Oooooooh!...
Wow, how clever.
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There is a good picture of ballpark hole with some sod down on the STL today website. I do not know how to post pics...
http://iwitness.stltoday.com/mycapture/ ... ryID=21342&
http://iwitness.stltoday.com/mycapture/ ... ryID=21342&
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that's just a photoshop job. Nothing down there but dirt.
I have lost about as much patience on this issue as everyone else, but after listening to DeWitt III this morning on the radio with Shannon I am still holding out for this one. The All-Star game will come and go, and most people's opinion of St Louis won't be altered greatly. We are the one's that will remain and will get to see the first hand benefits of this great opportunity. If the delays are truly to attempt to ensure that it is a quality, top-tier development, I can stand behind that (not an excuse for the delays, but it we have waited this long...)
For the record, he said that the residential has not been dropped. Due to market conditions, that they think will rebound, the "residential tower" as he put it, has been moved to phase II. He also spoke of multiple retail tenants that have signed on, but wish not be named until the coming months' plans are released officially (same old story, I know, but don't shoot the messenger)
For the record, he said that the residential has not been dropped. Due to market conditions, that they think will rebound, the "residential tower" as he put it, has been moved to phase II. He also spoke of multiple retail tenants that have signed on, but wish not be named until the coming months' plans are released officially (same old story, I know, but don't shoot the messenger)
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They better have construction started by the time thousands of people and aerial shots are taken during the all star game
Or...?stl1991 wrote:They better have construction started by the time thousands of people and aerial shots are taken during the all star game
Joe Worthington in his PD column in the last year had noted a couple of Law firms pursuing space at BPV. A law firm might consider it ideal having a corner office overlooking the outfield while their name can be seen from home plate. Offer a major client a few drinks and a walk across the street for the ball game after a meeting.
So my WISHFUL thinking at the moment is that DeWitt and company are keeping their mouths sealed until a lease can be signed. Especially after gettig burned on Centene. Slay just might know something after offering that very very weak blog post (which is probably even MORE WISHFUL THINKING)
Grabbing a couple of law firms would be a steal and the stadium is the one thing that Clayton Central Business District can't offer. The Cardinals gettingin first place would probably help BPV more then anything else.
So my WISHFUL thinking at the moment is that DeWitt and company are keeping their mouths sealed until a lease can be signed. Especially after gettig burned on Centene. Slay just might know something after offering that very very weak blog post (which is probably even MORE WISHFUL THINKING)
Grabbing a couple of law firms would be a steal and the stadium is the one thing that Clayton Central Business District can't offer. The Cardinals gettingin first place would probably help BPV more then anything else.
The Cardinals position in the standings has absolutely nothing to do with BPV. Hell, they won a freakin' World Series AT the new Busch Stadium and the only progress that's been made on that site (which looks like it belongs in the desert in Arizona) are the growth of weeds.