Ballpark Village Towers and Mixed Use Project

the central scrutinizer · PostMay 08, 2008#34762008-05-08T05:03+00:00

goat314 wrote:^ I think its sad that Clayton thinks of itself as the commercial center of the region and has to degrade downtown's progression in order to make itself appear better. I'm glad that Centene decided to stay in the St. Louis area, but these kind of shots are unnecessary. Lets see how much Clayton laughs if the city ever gets rid of that stupid earnings tax, but until then doing big time business in the city limits will be a joke .

Again, is there anything this "Clayton spokesperson" said that is inaccurate?

(hint: the answer is, "No")

jlblues · PostMay 08, 2008#34772008-05-08T05:36+00:00

Not inaccurate, no. You have to admit though that it is a little odd that, somewhere halfway through the article, a story entitled "Downtown Nixed, Centene Plans $215M HQ Redo", about Centene's development plans for a site in downtown Clayton turned into a story about downtown St. Louis...and Pyramid Development? What does Pyramid have to do with Centene? "A Pyramid spokesman could not be reached for comment." Huh? John Steffen said, "Ummmm yeah, that sure is a nice development Centene has planned there in Clayton"

I guess they just decided to save space and combine two stories into one.

They also seem to think that the Laurel/Dillard's building redevelopment by itself is a $450-million project. Wow, talk about your spiraling costs, no wonder Pyramid went out of business!

south compton · PostMay 08, 2008#34782008-05-08T18:57+00:00

There is only one line directly quoted from the Clayton spokesman and everything else is a rehash of some unpleasant facts and some supposed paraphrase of "major disaster." My guess is this is more about sloppy journalism than Clayton putting down the City. It would be highly unprofessional for the spokesman to actually say what the article implies.

Downtown2007 wrote:A Clayton spokesperson trashing downtown!!! What is up with that!!!

http://www.globest.com/news/1151_1151/s ... 536-1.html

Downtown St. Louis is now seeing a major disaster for its growth plans, the Clayton spokesman says. “You’ve got the biggest redeveloper, Pyramid, declaring bankruptcy, it’s a huge problem.” John Steffen’s Pyramid Cos. shut down its massive portfolio of Downtown plans in April, including a reported two million sf of planned projects, making up almost $600 million in new projects. This included the $450-million, mixed-use redevelopment of the Dillard’s building, to be called the Laurel, and the $100-million renovation of the Jefferson Arms Hotel. Pyramid’s Laurel partner Spinnaker Cos. has reportedly kept the project going, but other plans are dead. A Pyramid spokesman could not be reached for comment.

moorlander · PostMay 08, 2008#34792008-05-08T19:06+00:00

The Central Scrutinizer wrote:
Downtown2007 wrote:A Clayton spokesperson trashing downtown!!! What is up with that!!!

http://www.globest.com/news/1151_1151/s ... 536-1.html

Downtown St. Louis is now seeing a major disaster for its growth plans, the Clayton spokesman says. “You’ve got the biggest redeveloper, Pyramid, declaring bankruptcy, it’s a huge problem.” John Steffen’s Pyramid Cos. shut down its massive portfolio of Downtown plans in April, including a reported two million sf of planned projects, making up almost $600 million in new projects. This included the $450-million, mixed-use redevelopment of the Dillard’s building, to be called the Laurel, and the $100-million renovation of the Jefferson Arms Hotel. Pyramid’s Laurel partner Spinnaker Cos. has reportedly kept the project going, but other plans are dead. A Pyramid spokesman could not be reached for comment.

"Trashing" downtown? Is there anything this "Clayton spokesperson" said that is inaccurate?

This article is so stupid. I don't see any major (or minor disasters) going on DT nor do I see Pyramid declaring bankruptcy a major problem. I guess it might APPEAR that way to someone who isn't firmiliar with the DT StL market, but that's obviously shown by botching the development costs of Laurel.

stl1991 · PostMay 13, 2008#34802008-05-13T12:06+00:00

im confused i thought that there was a resedential requirement that Cordish and the Cardinals needed to have in BallPark Village.

chrisindowntown · PostMay 13, 2008#34812008-05-13T14:23+00:00

Did anyone catch young DeWitt on the Morning After? I got in the car as it was ending. Sure nothing ground breaking but it is good that they are being forced to actually speak on the subject I guess.

moorlander · PostMay 13, 2008#34822008-05-13T14:26+00:00

Forced? Forced by who? What did he say?

chrisindowntown · PostMay 13, 2008#34832008-05-13T15:00+00:00

Not really forced. Just that they'll accept questions I guess rather than hiding and avoiding any public discussion. Going on radion or tv just makes them look stupider for not having anything done yet.

survivor147 · PostMay 26, 2008#34842008-05-26T02:56+00:00

I in no way want to offend anyone, but I am from St. Louis. I have been living in KC for the last few years. As of next week, I'm headed back to StL for a new job and I'm very excited.

But I have to say, KC is really on the upswing with their Power and Light District. If StL can't get anything going in the 2+ years they have built their stadium, then we should say goodbye to these damn democratic politicians. I'm not saying I only vote for one party over the other because I don't do that...but StL is a VERY Democratic (blue) city and it's gotten us no where. If I live in the city limits, I'd like to vote everyone out. This is beyond embarrassing that they can't figure out what to do with that place.

MattnSTL · PostMay 26, 2008#34852008-05-26T04:07+00:00

As much as I want to see our fine elected officials voted out (and not replaced with anyone from any particular party, just people that understand urbanism), you're generally blaming the wrong people for this. While politicians play a role, it's the developer that ultimately builds the project .

An administrative note: Please try to keep KC out of any responses. KC has nothing to do with this project and we don't need an argument over the two cities.

irocktheparty2000 · PostJun 06, 2008#34862008-06-06T20:43+00:00

Bowling Hall Of Fame To Move to Texas

Reports say that he International Bowling Museum and Hall of Fame will be moving from St. Louis to Arlington, Texas. The St. Louis Cardinals have reportedly bought the building that currently housed the museum. FOX 2 expects confirmation from the Cardinals of these reports within the hour. Stay tuned to FOX 2 and myFOXstl.com for more information.

southcitygent · PostJun 06, 2008#34872008-06-06T21:09+00:00

First Anheuser-Busch and now this…..

stlchiefs · PostJun 06, 2008#34882008-06-06T21:24+00:00

irocktheparty2000 wrote:Bowling Hall Of Fame To Move to Texas

Reports say that he International Bowling Museum and Hall of Fame will be moving from St. Louis to Arlington, Texas. The St. Louis Cardinals have reportedly bought the building that currently housed the museum. FOX 2 expects confirmation from the Cardinals of these reports within the hour. Stay tuned to FOX 2 and myFOXstl.com for more information.

http://www.stltoday.com/stltoday/news/s ... enDocument

Bowling Hall of Fame moving out of StL

By Jake Wagman

ST. LOUIS POST-DISPATCH

06/06/2008

St. Louis, say goodbye to your ten-pin shrine.

The International Bowling Museum and Hall of Fame -- a downtown staple for nearly 25 years -- is moving to the Dallas area.

Museum board members voted this week to sell their land to the Cardinals, which have been eying the site for their Ballpark Village destination.

The museum had been in discussions to move into a new location in the village, but instead was invited to share a building in Arlington Tex. with the sport's governing body, the United States Bowling Congress.

"With heavy hearts, we've made the decision to accept the offer," said Pat Ciniello, president of the bowling museum.

Terms of the sale were not disclosed.

The move is a potential boon for Ballpark Village, the proposed mixed-use development on the site of the old Busch Stadium. The project has been mired in delays, with the city acknowledging that it is unlikely the area will be open for business when the Major League Baseball All-Star game comes to St. Louis next summer.

Somehow this is a BOON for BPV?

I'd love to understand how. They bought some land, which was inevitable, but lost what should have been a guaranteed tenant.

Real progress.

Here's an idea, buy the land and keep them as a tenant. I'm really starting to wonder if Cordish is just an impossible developer to deal with. They can't come to an agreement with Centene and now this? Granted this isn't on the same level as Centene, but it is them botching what should have been a guaranteed deal.

stlbluejay · PostJun 06, 2008#34892008-06-06T22:16+00:00

At first I was upset about this but I have never been there and do not know anyone that has ever visited. And I highly doubt that anyone would visit STL just to see this.

Also, I could see how this could help BPV--I doubt the Bowling Hall of Fame was willing (or able) to pay even a reasonable amount to lease (or purchase space) at BPV. I could be wrong but I doubt that the Hall of Fame brings in much revenue each year (in fact their website solicits donations so they presumably are a not for profit entity). Bottom line: this move will not make or break BPV or downtown--and may actually partially help BPV to move forward (though I am sure the Cards and Cordish will find another reason to delay construction).

bprop · PostJun 06, 2008#34902008-06-06T22:55+00:00

So we're trying to come up with speculative reasons that a closing business might have not been good for downtown after all? Really?

I don't care one bit for the competitive sport of bowling, but I've been to the Bowling HOF a few times, even on my lunch hour. Great history lesson, behind-the-scenes of pin-setting machines through the ages, interesting dioramas....and a few free frames at the end. And there were always plenty of people there.

southslider · PostJun 07, 2008#34912008-06-07T00:05+00:00

stlbluejay wrote:And I highly doubt that anyone would visit STL just to see this. )

Only Homer, but then again, it's only a day trip from Springfield.

thewayofthearch · PostJun 10, 2008#34922008-06-10T18:14+00:00

It was stated here a long while back that there were rumours that the IBHOF was on the move, as they had relocated some other offices )or maybe it was a sister organization that they are now sharing a space with) from Wisconsin to Texas. I think they were planning on moving anyway and announced it simultaneous with the sale to the Cardinals. I wouldn't be suprised if half the PBA's events were in the Lonestar state. I'm pretty sure the closest thing we have is in KC, Kansas.

Remember that they didn't want to sell and Cordish threatened Eminent Domain? They said they had to have the property to go forward. Then there were articles about how expensive the real estate was and shows like Charlie Brennan's scoffing at the idea and lastly, Centene's Supreme Court loss in Clayton. There was no chance of eminent domain taking it then, forcing the Cards and Cordish to negotiate in good faith (and we all know how Cordish feels about that. It took awhile, HOF got their price, have their new digs, and the Cards (and via that Cordish) got the final parcel in the BPV master plan.

The loss of the HOF isn't all that devastating. I have lambasted fellow St. Louisans for not having been to the Arch. I have never, ever, chastized anyone for not having been to the Bowling Hall of Fame. I also think (or maybe just hope) that with this parcel in the fold that we may see a "surge" in BPV activity.

Here's hoping, because I think the Post's countdown page to the All-Star game is the stupidest thing I've ever seen. Then again maybe its just the sort of thing to get them motivated, but it may well motivate them to pave over it and setup an extremely sad looking carnival type setup that makes Fair St. Louis look like a wine party in King Louis the 14th's Versailles palace.

Time will tell.

stlchiefs · PostJun 11, 2008#34932008-06-11T03:14+00:00

Today stltoday.com (Post Dispatch) placed an article on the front page with a ticker counting down the time until the 2009 All-Star Game in St. Louis. The short article mentions the slow pace of development and asks readers to send in pictures documenting changes to the Busch Stadium "hole in the ground".

I know it's doubtful, but hopefully this little jab from the PD gets a little rise out of the Cards/Cordish. I'd like to see the Highway 40 style completion ticker stay up on the website for a while.

http://www.stltoday.com/stltoday/news/s ... enDocument

stl_rising · PostJun 11, 2008#34942008-06-11T03:25+00:00

TheWayoftheArch,

"but it may well motivate them to pave over it and setup an extremely sad looking carnival type setup that makes Fair St. Louis look like a wine party in King Louis the 14th's Versailles palace. "

That's hilarious. You may be right, which is the scary thing. But still, funniest thing I've read on here in some time.

jmedwick · PostJun 11, 2008#34952008-06-11T12:45+00:00

^ Al Hrabosky's Back 40

moorlander · PostJun 11, 2008#34962008-06-11T14:35+00:00

BD Jr said on 1380 this morning in regards to what's new at BPV...

"We hope to break ground sometime in the not too distant future."

...or something along those lines.

debaliviere · PostJun 11, 2008#34972008-06-11T14:50+00:00

Moorlander wrote:BD Jr said on 1380 this morning in regards to what's new at BPV...

"We hope to break ground sometime in the not too distant future."

...or something along those lines.

Wow, another great update! We all hope you break ground, too.

moorlander · PostJun 11, 2008#34982008-06-11T15:40+00:00

DeBaliviere wrote:
Moorlander wrote:BD Jr said on 1380 this morning in regards to what's new at BPV...

"We hope to break ground sometime in the not too distant future."

...or something along those lines.

Wow, another great update! We all hope you break ground, too.

No kidding, I laughed!

threeonefour · PostJun 13, 2008#34992008-06-13T06:41+00:00

DeBaliviere wrote:
Moorlander wrote:BD Jr said on 1380 this morning in regards to what's new at BPV...

"We hope to break ground sometime in the not too distant future."

...or something along those lines.

Wow, another great update! We all hope you break ground, too.

Sounds like the interviewer(s) really had to rough him up to get him to spill the latest news on Ballpark Village.

metzgda · PostJun 14, 2008#35002008-06-14T18:08+00:00

STLToday.com released a page "All-Star Game Countdown: Watching the Busch Stadium Hole". Done surprisingly well, it requests pictures of the hole from readers and also has a counter until the All-Star game.

All-Star Game Countdown: Watching the Busch Stadium Hole

Maybe this will get the owners to provide more updated information on the project and it's hole.

Ballpark Village Towers and Mixed Use Project

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