urbanSTL

So does the KCP&L district have any residential options? From renderings it seemed similar to Ballpark Village in that there would be hundreds of condos and apartments built. From what I've seen however, it doesn't look like any residential component is there. To me, it seems like an isolated retail development with a new office headquarters and an empty entertainment center (Sprint Center). If KC doesn't get any residential built nor attract a team to Sprint Center quickly, I could see that development going downhill quickly.



Ballpark Village mirrors KCP&L so much it's scary. However, it seems that STL will be in a little better situation in that Cordish is required to have 250 condos in the first phase (at least some residential), we also have an office headquarters, AND we have a functioning entertainment center (Busch Stadium) next to the development.

^and the biggest point...we actually have a tenent (St. Louis Cardinals).

On a slightly related topic, the news that Busch will hold concert series' during the summer (possibly) starting in 2009 means even more increased revenue for this project. First concert is DMB June '07.

I hope your wrong too Gasm. Ya know St. Louis has always been known as a northern city with southern politics, but these days it seems like we could benefit from some of those down south tactics. What really hurts the St. Louis area is a combination of Missouri politics, city/county split, racial tension, lack of leadership with vision, and lack of public support. The fact is most people here don't think of St. Louis as a first rate city, so thats why we get all of these half ass developments. Do you think this sh*t would go down in Atlanta or even Charlotte. Hell Naw! St. Louis's biggest enemies are the people and state we are in. Its crazy how people from other places can see the potential for greatness but we cant. As long as the people in St. Louis are content we will remain a second rate metropolitan with world class potential and what awards do you get for that . I'm seriously think about contacting some officials or the post or something. I want to know why St. Louisans have zero civic pride. If we had have the pride ATL had we would be twice as better.

You know how many metropolitan areas would kill for our:

architecture

central location on two major waterways

low cost of living

storied baseball franchise

unique culture

international effing monument on our front lawn that is heavily underutilized

history

St. Louis has no excuse not to be a top 10 metropolitan area like it was for most of its history.

goat314 wrote:I hope your wrong too Gasm. Ya know St. Louis has always been known as a northern city with southern politics, but these days it seems like we could benefit from some of those down south tactics. What really hurts the St. Louis area is a combination of Missouri politics, city/county split, racial tension, lack of leadership with vision, and lack of public support. The fact is most people here don't think of St. Louis as a first rate city, so thats why we get all of these half ass developments. Do you think this sh*t would go down in Atlanta or even Charlotte. Hell Naw! St. Louis's biggest enemies are the people and state we are in. Its crazy how people from other places can see the potential for greatness but we cant. As long as the people in St. Louis are content we will remain a second rate metropolitan with world class potential and what awards do you get for that . I'm seriously think about contacting some officials or the post or something. I want to know why St. Louisans have zero civic pride. If we had have the pride ATL had we would be twice as better.

You know how many metropolitan areas would kill for our:

architecture

central location on two major waterways

low cost of living

storied baseball franchise

unique culture

international effing monument on our front lawn that is heavily underutilized

history

St. Louis has no excuse not to be a top 10 metropolitan area like it was for most of its history.

Slay just doesn't get it, unfortunately.

STLgasm wrote:I'm sure Charlotte or Atlanta would bend over backwards to lure them.

Yep, Charlotte continues to actively market itself for corporate relocations. Recently, 13-plus acres were created from reducing the footprint of freeway interchanges. Maybe St. Louis could market the Ballpark Village site similar to this City of Charlotte website (though maybe not create such a cheesy video intro that makes you look like the center of the universe).

I think a lot of people predicted this. The grandiose proposals were just a tactic to get the public on board for the new stadium. As I've maintained all along, the old Busch was FAR superior to what we have now.

southslider wrote:

STLgasm wrote:I'm sure Charlotte or Atlanta would bend over backwards to lure them.

Yep, Charlotte continues to actively market itself for corporate relocations. Recently, 13-plus acres were created from reducing the footprint of freeway interchanges. Maybe St. Louis could market the Ballpark Village site similar to this City of Charlotte website (though maybe not create such a cheesy video intro that makes you look like the center of the universe).

Does Charlotte have its own version of Clayton, stealing downtown's thunder?

^There are multiple edge-cities (South Park, Ballantyne, etc.) in Charlotte, but they're all in within the city limits. Just imagine if St. Louis city limits extended to I-270, but also to I-255 for that matter, as Charlotte covers virtually everything inside I-485 and its CBD is centrally located. It also helps that the wealthiest areas are fairly equally south (South Charlotte) and north (Lake Norman) of the CBD, the former of which is even inside city limits, great for tax base. Finally, I'm sure it helps that the growing CBD (lowest vacancy rate in the nation) is dominated by finance, utilities and government, all sectors better suited for downtown than suburban office parks. Here are some maps on-line, if you're interested.

southslider wrote:^There are multiple edge-cities (South Park, Ballantyne, etc.) in Charlotte, but they're all in within the city limits. Just imagine if St. Louis city limits extended to I-270, but also to I-255 for that matter, as Charlotte covers virtually everything inside I-485 and its CBD is centrally located. It also helps that the wealthiest areas are fairly equally south (South Charlotte) and north (Lake Norman) of the CBD, the former of which is even inside city limits, great for tax base. Finally, I'm sure it helps that the growing CBD (lowest vacancy rate in the nation) is dominated by finance, utilities and government, all sectors better suited for downtown than suburban office parks.

Thank you. I wish our downtown was more like uptown Charlotte in some ways. It's been a few years since I've been there, but I love the concentration of corporate HQs and the fact that there are LOTS of cultural venues there. I hate how everything in STL is so spread out.

Prediction: 2009 will come and we will still have nothing but a hole in the ground. I pray that I am wrong.

I think you are wrong Gasm.... I predict that by 2009 we will have a nicely paved lot full of prime parking spots, for all those out of towners coming to the all star game.....

The world is not ending. In fact, I really don't think St. Louis needs BPV. Instead of putting all our money (in the metaphorical sense) on these concentrated megaprojects (BPV, Bottle District, St. Louis Centre to an extent), St. Louis needs to focus on getting "little" wins. We need to encourage small businesses to choose downtown St. Louis as their home, and we need to coax businesses already in the St. Louis area to relocate to downtown.



To me, this approach seems much safer than begging Cordish to do this project and praying that a domino effect will result.



If BPV falls through, it will be the loss of a potentially major job, retail, and residential addition. But it was a gamble to begin with, so we should move toward a more pragmatic approach.

migueltejada wrote:Gamble? What gamble? It was A FREAKING AGREEMENT between the city, state, and Cardinals owners. They HAVE TO BUILD IT or pay the fines.

Actually, they only have to build a $60 million development to avoid paying the penalty. The Cardinals Hall of Fame/offices (which I'm sure they will proceed with eventually, no matter what happens), one or two retail spaces, and a massive parking lot might come close to that. IIRC, they have until 2011 before any penalty could be imposed.

:Violin : Well, gentlemen, it has truly been an honor playing with you. Those who wish may join me in playing "Nearer My God to Thee" in G-minor. :Violin : see you at the bottom of the pond....

I agree Magnatron what is the f'ing hold up! Is it just me or does this town have the worst luck and most waisted potential of any metro out there. What is wrong with this town? I love St. Louis, but this city can really bring your hopes up and send them crumbling to the ground.

As for the long delay, I used to work for a national retailer's real estate division and it would sometimes take them up to seven years to build what most people on this forum would describe as a cookie-cutter box.



There are many different parties involved with this deal, so you can expect this to take some time.

I am not convinced that BPV is dead by that segment. Lots of question marks but nothing overwhelming that would cause me to go around saying it wasnt going to happen unlike some on this board. Where is the confidence??? It sounds as if the City and Cards want to get it done but the holdup is with Cordish. Hopefully we hear soon whether Cordish is in or out as the developer as the Mayor stated. The one positive thing is that they are doing their best to do things the right way instead of settling for a dissapointing development. If Cordish is out isnt it possible to lure a new developer???

To tell you the truth, I'm still not worried. Granted, I haven't been able to get Collateral Damage to stream for me, but at this point we are still a month or two away from the projected start, if not more. And does anyone realize that Centene has only been on board since September? Remember, it's a pretty large building to design and engineer. I'm pretty confident at least Centene will be going up by the end of Summer. They will basically be a separate project on separate land. Everyone here is too emotional.