urbanSTL

Directorscut18 wrote:I wish Slay, Centene, Cordish or who ever would give us some type of update. Some sort of idea of where they are currently. I hate waiting month after month just to hear new announcements of a postponed groundbreakings. I don't want to know details just an idea of what they are currently doing.

Slay did less than a month ago.: http://www.mayorslay.com/desk/display.asp?deskID=897

did less than a month ago.:

I remember that Slay said that. I couldn't remember exactly what he said except that they hope construction will start in the next couple of months. But what I wanted to know is exactly where they are in negotiations. I know that they cannot make public what they are doing to get BPV underway, I am just frustrated and want to hear something. A month has passed since Slay's last announcement, and his "two month estimate" is now down to one month. If I had to guess, his next announcement will highly resemble his last, and the outlook for construction will be the same. He will be expecting construction within the next two months. I hope I am wrong.

From Slay's statement on the state of Ballpark Village progress last month:

Mayor Slay wrote:But, I don’t believe Centene is to blame for the delay. Cordish has had four months to complete the negotiations and finish the development agreement. Like everyone else, I am growing impatient. I want to see construction start soon.

If the onus is on Cordish as Mayor Slay seems to believe, I find it interesting that we haven't heard from anyone there. I'd like to know what they think of the city's role in this development, i.e., has the city done all that it can to ensure progress toward a groundbreaking date and construction of Ballpark Village?



Sometimes I cannot help but think that none of the parties involved has their act together.

^Maybe the Cordish family has been on an extended family reunion/sabbatical, hence there is nobody around to work on Ballpark Village?

All is quiet on the western front.

my guess that cordish will release a new plan this spring, with construction starting this summer, and finishing in 2011

jlblues wrote:Maybe the Cordish family has been on an extended family reunion/sabbatical, hence there is nobody around to work on Ballpark Village?

stl1991 wrote:my guess that cordish will release a new plan this spring, with construction starting this summer, and finishing in 2011

My guess about Ballpark Village is...um...I don't know. Aw Hell...I give up.

At risk of stating the obvious, I just thought about the Cardinals hosting the 2009 All-Star game with the village unfinished. Sure seems like a missed opportunity for everyone. I hope we can use the space with a temporary stage and vendors or something. It would be so boring if they use it for more parking.



Apparently Cordish's Power and Light District in Kansas City is also behind schedule. Here is a recent article about Cordish in KC's The Pitch.

http://www.pitch.com/2008-02-14/news/dr ... power/full

Nora wrote:At risk of stating the obvious, I just thought about the Cardinals hosting the 2009 All-Star game with the village unfinished. Sure seems like a missed opportunity for everyone. I hope we can use the space with a temporary stage and vendors or something. It would be so boring if they use it for more parking.



Apparently Cordish's Power and Light District in Kansas City is also behind schedule. Here is a recent article about Cordish in KC's The Pitch.

http://www.pitch.com/2008-02-14/news/dr ... power/full

This is BS. Maybe Cordish should worry about getting their own projects done instead of oppossing local businesses in Jeff City.

Engelman stresses to me that he’s not anti-Cordish. “I support the entertainment district fully,” he says. A successful Power and Light District can benefit the small business around town, Engelman says, and vice versa.

By contrast, Cordish seems to believe that entertainment is a zero-sum game.

Cordish’s unwillingness to share relaxed liquor rules is only the latest bit of discouraging news. Originally scheduled to open last October, significant pieces of the Power and Light District will still be dark when the Big 12 basketball tournaments come to town next month. Last November, Cordish announced that it wanted to charge $2 for parking in garages that were supposed to be free (“The Dance,” November 22, 2007).

City officials knew that the Cordish deal was risky. Forecasts showed the Power and Light District producing just enough revenue to cover the bond payments. But those projections may have been optimistic. The Cordish debt will cost the city $14 million in the 2009 fiscal year. Councilwoman Deb Hermann, the chair of the city’s Finance Committee, has said recently that she expects the city will have to reach into the general fund to satisfy the project's creditors.

That's pretty much in line with what I've heard about how these guys operate. They won't share the sandbox (not that that is much different than any other large real estate developer). Read some of the articles and discussion boards on Cordish's many other projects around the country - seems the local rubes always end up feeling they got the shaft or realize that somewhere in the excitement they dealt away their firstborn to Cordish (maybe this is why there are so many Cordishs, er, Cordishes?).



Not that I feel sorry for KC, they were the ones stupid enough to sign the deal. I'm just glad St. Louis didn't give into Cordish's demands to guarantee the TIF bonds...er, well, at least not so far.

^True, I haven't heard or read much negative about Fourth Street Live that I can recall, except that I think it went over budget. But that was a small project, not even a tenth the size of what Cordish has proposed for the Power & Light District.



In any case, that is just one of dozens of projects Cordish has developed, and the balance of articles and reactions is negative - even for a real estate developer. Developers, fairly or unfairly, gain reputations within the industry. All I am saying is that Cordish's rep has never been good - of course, I'm sure they'd be the first to tell you that they couldn't care less.

so, Cordish spent the money to lobby to get this law changed for their entertainment district and now everyone else wants to capitalize on their efforts and success? I'm with Cordish, and their goal of protecting their investment. At the same time, I would LOVE it if they would allow people to walk around with booze in Soulard or at LEAST the Landing. So..maybe on the fence..

jlblues wrote:^True, I haven't heard or read much negative about Fourth Street Live that I can recall, except that I think it went over budget. But that was a small project, not even a tenth the size of what Cordish has proposed for the Power & Light District.



In any case, that is just one of dozens of projects Cordish has developed, and the balance of articles and reactions is negative - even for a real estate developer. Developers, fairly or unfairly, gain reputations within the industry. All I am saying is that Cordish's rep has never been good - of course, I'm sure they'd be the first to tell you that they couldn't care less.

Fireworks, concert tonight to kick off Power & Light lineup

By KEVIN COLLISON

The Kansas City Star

The Cordish Co. today plans to roll out a sweeping entertainment schedule aimed at pulling visitors into the Kansas City Power & Light District throughout the year.

http://www.kansascity.com/105/story/519049.html





I can see this development from my office... it sounds like it should be awesome with all the live performers... and if they do something similar in STL -- it should be freakin awesome.

OT: Could this be what we can expect BPV to be?





Video Tour of Kansas City Power and Light "Live Block"

In the Business Journal Book of lists it shows that Paric is the general contractor for BPV. Was this ever formally announced? I thought Clayco was involved perhaps, or no?

Clayco is involved with Centene, and they said they would not be the GC for BPV.

I'm not too thrilled with "organized" areas like this - they remind me of a glorified outdoor mall.



But they are happening and soon will be BPV.

matguy70 wrote:I'm not too thrilled with "organized" areas like this - they remind me of a glorified outdoor mall.



But they are happening and soon will be BPV.

And the more Cordish does, the more that Baltimore, Louisville, KC, St. Louis and whatever other cities they work in will look the same.

^ no kidding, I've often wondered what BPV would look like if the street grid had been restored and each block rfp'd to individual developers instead of selecting one developer for the entire 6 blocks. I'll tell you this, it wouldn't look like what it does today!

JCity wrote:so, Cordish spent the money to lobby to get this law changed for their entertainment district and now everyone else wants to capitalize on their efforts and success? I'm with Cordish, and their goal of protecting their investment. At the same time, I would LOVE it if they would allow people to walk around with booze in Soulard or at LEAST the Landing. So..maybe on the fence..

Personally, I am a capitalist and I believe that competition is good for everyone. I despise ostensibly capitalist companies that are afraid of competition and use lobbyists to limit that competition (except those in which I am invested j/k). When someone lobbys the government to create a loophole or regulation which allows them to set up their own little fiefdom where laws are applied differently, giving one company a competitive advantage over all of the others in the market, it unfairly favors that someone to everyone else's harm (consumers included - think how much more Cordish will be able to charge for alcohol and parking). Cordish already negotiated a massive TIF and public assistance for this project, which they claimed was necessary to make it viable, and now they want an exception (with no term limit from what I have read) and seek to exclude others from that exception to make their project even more profitable, most likely using that same viability argument.



Now, if, during the bidding process, before development rights were awarded, Cordish had lobbied to get an open-container exception, that would have been more acceptable, given everyone would have been free to compete by bidding on the project based on the possibility of that exception being granted, or by doing their own lobbying, assuming they weren't excluded from the process. I understand, and wholeheartedly agree with, the need for patents and limited term sole-provider rights as incentives to recoup a significant up-front investment, but in those cases, usually, the rights are established and understood by everyone prior to them being granted so, many companies are allowed to compete for those rights on an even playing field.



I am all in favor of an open-container exception, but an application process, a definition of the types of areas which are allowed to apply, and a method to establish their borders, must be written into state and local law before such rights are granted. That way, any and every entertainment-focused area, district, neighborhood, whatever, would be allowed to apply for such an exception if they want one, and freely compete, not just the entertainment areas owned by one corporation. I guarantee that, if such an exception were granted for Ballpark Village, Cordish would take more business away from Washington Avenue, Laclede's Landing, and Soulard than they would otherwise be able to. That unfair competition would harm businesses in those areas, and could very well make one or more of those areas no longer viable as entertainment districts.

^I probably wasn't clear that I was referring to the KCP&L district in the first part of my post. Ballpark Village is a different situation, and if they were doing the project without any public assistance, I would agree with you, to the extent that they would have a right to try get an exception for their property to alleviate some of their risk in developing it. But that is not the case.



A TIF and public assistance were negotiated to help reduce Cordish's risk. The TIF bonds are ostensibly to be paid off with new tax revenue generated by the development, the understanding being that the project will be so successful, and generate so much revenue, that it will be a win-win situation for the developer and the city. However, if you grant Cordish an open-container exception, which gives them a competitive advantage over other entertainment districts, then you are simply encouraging the flow of existing tax revenue from Laclede's Landing, Washington Avenue, and Soulard. That would certainly create a win situation for Cordish, but a lose situation for the city. Other entertainment districts will already be at a competitive disadvantage with Ballpark Village - so much so that I am afraid many businesses will disappear in those areas - we shouldn't be encouraging Ballpark Village over other areas, any more than we already are.



How would you feel if many of the old favorites in Soulard, Laclede's Landing, and Washington Avenue had to close, only to be replaced by bars and restaurants in the could-be-anywhere, sterile lifestyle retail center that it appears Ballpark Village will be.

St. Louis has too many established/burgeoning entertainment districts for the size of the market. Mom and Pop business will feel pressure and some will not make it after BPV opens. Local flavor so prevelant in St. Louis nightlife will be at risk. I also think centralization concepts will make it tougher on periphial entertainment areas such as the Cupples Warehouse district, Union Station/Locust, Olive/Midtown). I mean, how do you think Broadway Oyster Bar or BB's will fare with this monster down the street?



There is no guarantee, though, that cookie cutter entertainment concepts work in St. Louis. We have rejected stand alone chain concepts within our current and past entertainment districts (Planet Hollywood, Bar St. Louis, Polyesters). Generally, these national-brand entertainment complexes draw suburbanites (even in urban locations). St. Louis, however has the wild card of huge casino based entertainment concepts now taking off in the suburbs. The overall market dynamics within St. Louis are quite unique from an entertainment perspective. Plus, the market is definitely overbuilt at this time. A shake-out will occur.