stlmike wrote:That's great. I don't think building # 2 was originally going to be a tower of much height.
All those ballpark view rooms at the Hilton just got cheaper.
All those ballpark view rooms at the Hilton just got cheaper.
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Heard DeWitt on the Big 550 this morning saying the tower height would probably be in the high 20's.
bpe235 wrote:uuuhhhggg... The view of the arch from the west is hardly a bleep on my radar.
You know, I understand the want/need for a "money shot" from the ballpark with the Arch in the background, but people really need to think.
First, who benefits from the "money shot"? Among others, the Cardinals owners, who want a dramatic backdrop for their games so their ballpark can be proclaimed beautiful and among the best in baseball.
Next, who owns/owned the land where the ballpark village will reside? The Cardinals owners, who, as mentioned above, want a money shot from their ballpark that includes the Arch.
Now, on to geography:
Unless someone decides to tear down the East parking garage (pleaseohpleaseohplease), the Deloitte buiding, or the Millenium hotel, the Ballpark Village and its skyscrapers to the North of the ballpark aren't going to affect the view of the Arch to the Northeast.
The view, however, of the Old Courthouse is greatly imperiled.
#-o
/end_rant
-RBB
Tysalpha wrote:It will probably block the Old Courthouse, however.
Beat me to it, I see.
As would anything other than a hole in the ground or surface parking. I sincerely hope nobody's seriously worried about seeing the Old Courthouse from Busch.
-RBB
Block 1 will be ~27 stories; 2 retail and the rest office. Block 2 will be up to ~20 stories; 2 retail, 1750 parking spaces, and up to 550,000 SF of office space.irocktheparty2000 wrote:Heard DeWitt on the Big 550 this morning saying the tower height would probably be in the high 20's.
Its right there in the article people, plus we heard it straight from Mr. Rainford a few pages back, so why are people still speculating?
Edit: Not directed at irock in particular, just the most recent of the speculation.
Maybe Centene should have left the area, that way we'd have another $78 million to put towards a Mississippi River bridge.
You understand that these are tax credits, right?
^Well, like Lumiere Place, that shows you what renderings and/or models are worth.
I would also assume, or at least hope, that the hypothetical condo/hotel building that is shown in the model along Clark Street would be rotated 90 degrees. It would seem kind of silly for Centene to go through all of this trouble to build their HQ in BPV, and not even have a view of the ballpark!?!
I would also assume, or at least hope, that the hypothetical condo/hotel building that is shown in the model along Clark Street would be rotated 90 degrees. It would seem kind of silly for Centene to go through all of this trouble to build their HQ in BPV, and not even have a view of the ballpark!?!
^ I think it would seem even more silly for people to buy condos without views of the ballpark. I think having residence views makes more sense than office views.
much taller buildings
Really? Maybe much taller height wise, but that has little reflection on the number of floors.
A quick glance at Emporis shows some stats worth considering:
Met Square- 42 floors 593 feet
Laclede Gas Building- 31 floors 401 feet
Bank of America Plaza 31 floors 384 feet
One City Center- 25 floors 375 feet
Park East Tower 26 floors 330 feet
Ballpark Hilton I- 25 floors 280 feet
Ballpark at Hilton II- 22 floors 227 feet
If the very preliminary looking models seen so far are a true indication of the first towers height, then folks can probably expect a 27 floor tower in the range of 320 to 380 feet, a solid addition to the skyline.
The real questions to follow in the coming months are:
1. Will the parking garage be at least partially wrapped with office, residential or a hotel?
2. What is the likelihood of seeing the second 500,000 square feet of office space constructed? Would be nice to see a local firm looking for office space (such as the many law firms currently looking for space) sign up for the space currently to push forward its completion. It would be sad to end up with another Kiener Garage scenario.
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publiceye wrote:Maybe Centene should have left the area, that way we'd have another $78 million to put towards a Mississippi River bridge.
You understand that these are tax credits, right?
He obviously does not.
In the block renderings, there doesn't appear to be the same layout. Building two seems to come into where the middle "restaurant row" building is and it also juts into where the park is. Maybe they've gotten rid of the park! Or maybe I'm reading too much into what is actually just a crappy block rendering.
BTW, the article states,publiceye wrote:Maybe Centene should have left the area, that way we'd have another $78 million to put towards a Mississippi River bridge.
You understand that these are tax credits, right?
To encourage Centene to make the move to downtown St. Louis, the city will give the company a $48 million tax abatement and other incentives, for a total of $78 million in incentives.
Centene will receive $24 million through a federal incentive program for underdeveloped business districts. The company will get $1.9 million from a special one-cent addition to the hotel sales tax through the formation of a special tax district.
It is not really clear, is the $24M in "federal incentive" $$$ included in the $30M of "other incentives" the city is giving Centene? The last amount of $1.9M would be granted by the city, but it is vague (intentionally so?) about whether the $24M is included, or separate from, the city incentives.
Umm, rotate that building in the model 90 degrees and you still have pretty much the same view of home plate, you are just looking to the left outside your window versus the right. Plus, anyone on the south end of the building gets a view as well.stlmike wrote:^ I think it would seem even more silly for people to buy condos without views of the ballpark. I think having residence views makes more sense than office views.
It sounds as if Centene will be adding jobs. They are talking about retaining an considerable presence in Clayton in addition to the new downtown space. That planned expansion is why they wanted to expand in Clayton in the first place, so it's not as if they're just picking up what they have today and moving it downtown.
Now imagine if Express Scripts could have been lured downtown instead of their new campus, and Edward Jones as well instead of expanding in Des Peres.
Now imagine if Express Scripts could have been lured downtown instead of their new campus, and Edward Jones as well instead of expanding in Des Peres.
Well, it's a longish building. It looks like they can fit more condos and hotels that directly face the ballpark that way. You really couldn't rotate it 90 degrees because the block is oblong.
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jlblues wrote:Its right there in the article people, plus we heard it straight from Mr. Rainford a few pages back, so why are people still speculating?[/i]
Callow
dutchtowner wrote:jlblues wrote:Its right there in the article people, plus we heard it straight from Mr. Rainford a few pages back, so why are people still speculating?[/i]
Callow
D'oh! Umm yeah, thats what I meant... #-o
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buckethead wrote:publiceye wrote:Maybe Centene should have left the area, that way we'd have another $78 million to put towards a Mississippi River bridge.
You understand that these are tax credits, right?
He obviously does not.
It was a joke...a lame attempt at a joke...but a joke nonetheless.
But it brings up an interesting point. If these are just tax credits, then why worry? The city will get something out of it that it wasn't getting before...just not as much.
"Work force: Has 600 employees in Clayton, plans to bring 1,200 jobs to St. Louis in next five years."
http://www.stltoday.com/stltoday/busine ... enDocument
http://www.stltoday.com/stltoday/busine ... enDocument
Doug wrote:Adding jobs? Relocating jobs.
Hard to tell. Centene officially listed 1800 jobs companywide at the end of FY05; it was up to 2600 at the end of FY06. Centene has tended to be an acquirer, so that's where some of those jobs come from; all this discussion of "1200 jobs," however, does not seem to have delineated how many are in Clayton now; how many of those are moving downtown; and how many jobs total are expected in both Clayton and downtown by 2008.