ChrisInDownTown, great article. Thanks for posting.
The Cardinals’ Bill DeWitt III, senior vice president for business development, is overseeing Ballpark Village for the team owners. He says he’s been “somewhat baffled by all the skepticism, the negativity, people not knowing how cool this could be, people saying they don’t think it will work.”
He says the doubt comes in two forms: “One is what I call the extreme conspiracy theory, from people who think the Cardinals wanted to promise the world to get their ballpark built, and now that it’s built, they don’t care about Ballpark Village anymore.” The other, he says, is the usual naysaying by St. Louisans who have seen many downtown plans come and go and don’t trust the recent resurgence.
Some people may disagree, but this phenomenon has to be more acute in St. Louis than any other city. It's almost like some people want projects to fail so they can say, "See, I told you so."
It's draining to say the least, and it doesn't help enthusiastic developers in the process.
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They cant start digging the hole soon enough for me. I want to see a hole of WTC proportions. Then people will believe that something is being built there.
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I think someone is already renting a crane to accidentally run in to the SLC skybridge, let's see if we can get a bulk discount and rent a back hoe while we're at it... and I'll show you a hole....
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Arch City wrote:The Cardinals’ Bill DeWitt III, senior vice president for business development, is overseeing Ballpark Village for the team owners. He says he’s been “somewhat baffled by all the skepticism, the negativity, people not knowing how cool this could be, people saying they don’t think it will work.”
He says the doubt comes in two forms: “One is what I call the extreme conspiracy theory, from people who think the Cardinals wanted to promise the world to get their ballpark built, and now that it’s built, they don’t care about Ballpark Village anymore.” The other, he says, is the usual naysaying by St. Louisans who have seen many downtown plans come and go and don’t trust the recent resurgence.
Some people may disagree, but this phenomenon has to be more acute in St. Louis than any other city. It's almost like some people want projects to fail so they can say, "See, I told you so."
It's draining to say the least, and it doesn't help enthusiastic developers in the process.
You'll find the same sentiment on the other side of the state (KC). In the late 90's, people saw fancy renderings for a "Power and Light" District to be built downtown and it never came to be...until now almost a decade later it was reincarnated. People thought and still think the loft craze is a short lived fad, few people outside downtown wanted to move the Royals downtown, etc. I think it's a mid-west thing. I bet passive city-haters are a majority in Cincy, Cleveland, Detroit, Miwaukee, Pittsburgh, etc. W/ the exception of Chicago, I'b bet it is widespread until you get out to Denver, perhaps. Things surely are getting better. They have been here in KC at least w/ events like First Fridays gallery openings becoming popular draws and more and more people moving downtown has slowly been changing the dead after 5pm syndrome. I'm sure Washington Ave. is turning heads and changing people's impressions, if at a slow pace.
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I think everyone would feel some relief if they would just throw us a bone and start pushing the dirt around with a bulldozer or something.
Over the weekend, food network ran a Rachel Ray show on ballpark food. She was at Fenway's "Yawkey Way" which closes to traffic two hours before every game. I had not seen it before and thought it was pretty impressive. Street vendors were out in full force, the street was packed, it looked like they had music and performers, etc...It appears that DeWitt has vocalized a similar vision for Clark St. and I hope it works out. Anything close to what I saw on TV would be a great draw and something I think Cardinal's nation could really get into (side note, I think I remember reading that the mini statues at 8th and Clark were once proposed to be spaced out along Clark between 8th and Broadway; that sounds good, too)
I don't know. I am well aware that KCitians can be naysayers too. I read the other development boards out there plus the KC Star's response threads on occasion. But I think it can be slightly more acute in St. Louis - partly because of the different social and political dynamics including those mentioned by DeWitt. It's only my perspective. The major newspaper, the St. Louis Post-Dispatch, can be more of a downer and negative about the community than the KC Star, in my opinion. What they write impacts the community's attitude. Plus, I talk to many people family, friends etc. in St. Louis and despite the renaissance underway many still aren't too bullish on St. Louis just yet - and many are educated people.kc_visiter wrote:You'll find the same sentiment on the other side of the state (KC). In the late 90's, people saw fancy renderings for a "Power and Light" District to be built downtown and it never came to be...until now almost a decade later it was reincarnated. People thought and still think the loft craze is a short lived fad, few people outside downtown wanted to move the Royals downtown, etc. I think it's a mid-west thing. I bet passive city-haters are a majority in Cincy, Cleveland, Detroit, Miwaukee, Pittsburgh, etc. W/ the exception of Chicago, I'b bet it is widespread until you get out to Denver, perhaps. Things surely are getting better.
Additionally, I think every city/region has skeptics and naysayers including boomtowns like Atlanta and Houston, but the overall mentality in those cities is "We can do". The overall mentality is "If we build it, they will come" - and people have. Chicago has moved in that direction as well.
Citizens of places like St. Louis and KC need to realize that the negativity - regardless of acuteness - doesn't help give people/investors/employers a positive impression of the city/region.
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Blzhrpmd2 wrote:Over the weekend, food network ran a Rachel Ray show on ballpark food. She was at Fenway's "Yawkey Way" which closes to traffic two hours before every game. I had not seen it before and thought it was pretty impressive. Street vendors were out in full force, the street was packed, it looked like they had music and performers, etc...It appears that DeWitt has vocalized a similar vision for Clark St. and I hope it works out. Anything close to what I saw on TV would be a great draw and something I think Cardinal's nation could really get into (side note, I think I remember reading that the mini statues at 8th and Clark were once proposed to be spaced out along Clark between 8th and Broadway; that sounds good, too)
Yawkey Way in Boston is set up to be inside the stadium perimeter when they close it off. After you go through the turnstyle to get into the stadium, you can walk out on Yawkey Way to buy food and beer, and still be considered inside the stadium because the old buildings across the street form a wall. It might be nice if they think ahead when they configure Ballpark Village to allow something like that.
Gary Kreie wrote:Blzhrpmd2 wrote:Over the weekend, food network ran a Rachel Ray show on ballpark food. She was at Fenway's "Yawkey Way" which closes to traffic two hours before every game. I had not seen it before and thought it was pretty impressive. Street vendors were out in full force, the street was packed, it looked like they had music and performers, etc...It appears that DeWitt has vocalized a similar vision for Clark St. and I hope it works out. Anything close to what I saw on TV would be a great draw and something I think Cardinal's nation could really get into (side note, I think I remember reading that the mini statues at 8th and Clark were once proposed to be spaced out along Clark between 8th and Broadway; that sounds good, too)
Yawkey Way in Boston is set up to be inside the stadium perimeter when they close it off. After you go through the turnstyle to get into the stadium, you can walk out on Yawkey Way to buy food and beer, and still be considered inside the stadium because the old buildings across the street form a wall. It might be nice if they think ahead when they configure Ballpark Village to allow something like that.
Although that might sound cool, I think it'd really just be a way for the cards owners to ensure they get a piece of the cash spent on Clark Street. Even worse, it would block people who don't have tickets from going to those street vendors/restaurants/shops and watching the game on TVs on the patios or sneaking a peek through the stadium from Clark street. Imagine how much life an open Clark Street could add with 5,000-10,000 more people packing the restaurants/bars/streetscape. I hope the Cards owners plan ahead and block Clark Street off to vehicle traffic for games, but definitely leave it open to pedestrian traffic.
When are they going to break ground?
Arch City, well said about naysaying in st. louis. I'm so tired of it. Here's what makes my blood boil:
"who's really moving downtown?"
"I heard it's slowed down"
"That won't EVER get built"
usually the age is 50 + or they think they are "high class" by knocking the city and "associating" themselves with Clayton, Ladue, etc.
Arch City, well said about naysaying in st. louis. I'm so tired of it. Here's what makes my blood boil:
"who's really moving downtown?"
"I heard it's slowed down"
"That won't EVER get built"
usually the age is 50 + or they think they are "high class" by knocking the city and "associating" themselves with Clayton, Ladue, etc.
This thread got to 100 pages. Yea!
Just thought that was cool. What are these guys waiting for? Last game I went to, I marveled at the new lake they put in. I wonder if it's stocked with bass.
Just thought that was cool. What are these guys waiting for? Last game I went to, I marveled at the new lake they put in. I wonder if it's stocked with bass.
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Blzhrpmd2 wrote:Over the weekend, food network ran a Rachel Ray show on ballpark food. She was at Fenway's "Yawkey Way" which closes to traffic two hours before every game. I had not seen it before and thought it was pretty impressive. Street vendors were out in full force, the street was packed, it looked like they had music and performers, etc...It appears that DeWitt has vocalized a similar vision for Clark St. and I hope it works out. Anything close to what I saw on TV would be a great draw and something I think Cardinal's nation could really get into (side note, I think I remember reading that the mini statues at 8th and Clark were once proposed to be spaced out along Clark between 8th and Broadway; that sounds good, too)
That's kind of what I was envisioning - Yawkey Way, without the annoying accents.
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^ Amen to the two posts above.
Suddenly, I'm reminded of the fan that misses the foul ball, drops his beer, and gets sniped out with a flying piece of pizza all at once.
Anyone see that a few weeks ago? Classic Fenway (mis)behavior.
Suddenly, I'm reminded of the fan that misses the foul ball, drops his beer, and gets sniped out with a flying piece of pizza all at once.
Anyone see that a few weeks ago? Classic Fenway (mis)behavior.
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ThreeOneFour wrote:^ Amen to the two posts above.
Suddenly, I'm reminded of the fan that misses the foul ball, drops his beer, and gets sniped out with a flying piece of pizza all at once.
Anyone see that a few weeks ago? Classic Fenway (mis)behavior.
That was hilarious! I didn't quite understand why someone would throw a pizza slice at someone else in that situation, but it was certainly funny.
Another good clip is the one from last week of Julian Tavarez stroking Manny Ramirez's hair while sitting in the dugout as the broadcasters yell out, "Make it stop!"
I would be furious if they somehow blocked Clark and tried to charge admission to the area during game days. THat would be unbelievable. The absolute key is to get people milling about down there, going to the restaurants, and rubbernecking through the gates into the stadium. Not to mention that if they restricted access to stadium patrons, they would probably institute the same bullsh*t price-jacking that they do inside the stadium among any vendors that were out there.
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^ I thought Yawkey Way was openned to ticket holders only because there really isn't suitable vending space in Fenway . . . certainly not a problem here. I'd be absolutely shocked if anyone outside of Boston was thinking about doing something similar. I can't wait for there to be a lively scene outside the stadium on game day. People will make it a habit to come early and stay late if there are things to do - places to eat.
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DeBaliviere wrote:I didn't quite understand why someone would throw a pizza slice at someone else in that situation, but it was certainly funny.
Apparently the man who missed the foul ball said something to the pizza thrower, who managed to sneak an entire pie into Fenway. Supposedly the verbal response was something to the effect of "You gotta problem withat?", and then the pizza slice was thrown.
Only at Fenway.
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ThreeOneFour wrote:Only at Fenway.
I went there when the Cards played the Sox in 03 and frequently heard the chant, "Cahd-nals Suck!" I think that may be the easiest place in the country to get into a fist fight, if you're so inclined.
I was at Busch when the sox won the Series. The guy next to me had come from Boston by himself for the game. Really nice guy. When the Sox won, he literally started crying on my shoulder. I gave him my ticket stub and took his picture for him. Those guys are nuts.
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I was there too! You didn't go to Yankee Stadium on that road trip as well did you?
I went there when the Cards played the Sox in 03 and frequently heard the chant, "Cahd-nals Suck!" I think that may be the easiest place in the country to get into a fist fight, if you're so inclined.
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Conurbation wrote:I was there too! You didn't go to Yankee Stadium on that road trip as well did you?
As a matter of fact, I did go to Yankee Stadium as well - we were there for the Saturday game, which was rain delayed before Matty Mo got torched.