Agreed, one thing BPV needs to work to is the dead line of the All Star game (the game sucks, but the eyes of the baseball world will be on St. Louis for a few days and we need to shine). TBD missed their opportunity when they missed having any activity during the NCAA men's Final Four when they were here a couple years ago - I agree with mophipsi's post above - we cannot miss this critical date for BPV.
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I don't think anything needs to be finished by the game - if there's a big construction project in the works - some steel framing, etc. - it will show that big things are happening in St. Louis. In some way I think this is better - I think it's more fun to see what's being built than what was built.
Come on now, the particulars of BPV were just announced in November (2006). I was wrong in thinking that the district would break ground on the Cardinals' opening day. Oh well. But the fact that the area is quiet doesn't mean work isn't being done.
I am sure there are behind-the-scenes negotiations for office tenants, retailers, entertainment, plus modifications etc. etc. They have to get contractors etc. I know people are anxious, but these types of developments don't pop out of the ground overnight.
I personally wouldn't care if it isn't finished by the 2009 All-Star game. As long as some progress has been made by then, St. Louis will be in good shape.
I am sure there are behind-the-scenes negotiations for office tenants, retailers, entertainment, plus modifications etc. etc. They have to get contractors etc. I know people are anxious, but these types of developments don't pop out of the ground overnight.
I personally wouldn't care if it isn't finished by the 2009 All-Star game. As long as some progress has been made by then, St. Louis will be in good shape.
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Arch City wrote:I am sure there are behind-the-scenes negotiations for office tenants, retailers, entertainment, plus modifications etc. etc. They have to get contractors etc. I know people are anxious, but these types of developments don't pop out of the ground overnight.
Maybe.
It isn't a huge project, but I would imagine they would break ground well before they had contracts in hand since construction will be a couple years. Most projects don't have tenants lined up before they start. I'm sure the builders are already making money from the ballpark village, since it was sold as a package as part of the ballpark.
Arch City wrote:Come on now, the particulars of BPV were just announced in November (2006). I was wrong in thinking that the district would break ground on the Cardinals' opening day. Oh well. But the fact that the area is quiet doesn't mean work isn't being done.
I am sure there are behind-the-scenes negotiations for office tenants, retailers, entertainment, plus modifications etc. etc. They have to get contractors etc. I know people are anxious, but these types of developments don't pop out of the ground overnight.
I personally wouldn't care if it isn't finished by the 2009 All-Star game. As long as some progress has been made by then, St. Louis will be in good shape.
I agree..frankly, I more concern about the condo towers being built than the project starting. that will happen.
what I found a little concerning when home a few weeks ago was it looked like the temporary parking had crept westward since the last time I noticed it. Maybe not; either way, I wish the whole thing was primed and construction-ready.
I seemed to remember an estimate of mid-season as the start of construction. If this is true, we might see soil tests being done by end of the season based on the speed of stuff getting done!
Seriously, I'm not too concerned about this getting built. It's a terribly complex site design and they haven't even finalized what % will be office and residential. My hope is that they still find demand to build condos, and downtown desperately needs new Class A office space. I just can't imagine it not getting filled if built - there are so many small office buildings being built in the county, and we need some more of that office space downtown now that the renaissance is in place.
Seriously, I'm not too concerned about this getting built. It's a terribly complex site design and they haven't even finalized what % will be office and residential. My hope is that they still find demand to build condos, and downtown desperately needs new Class A office space. I just can't imagine it not getting filled if built - there are so many small office buildings being built in the county, and we need some more of that office space downtown now that the renaissance is in place.
Not a huge project? This is one of the largest mixed-use projects proposed in the metropolitan area.Matthew/E36 wrote:Maybe.
It isn't a huge project, but I would imagine they would break ground well before they had contracts in hand since construction will be a couple years. Most projects don't have tenants lined up before they start. I'm sure the builders are already making money from the ballpark village, since it was sold as a package as part of the ballpark.
It's unusual for a complete tenant lineup to be announced before construction starts, true. But, most of the time, a semi-tenant lineup is in place (or a significant amount of tenants are announced) before construction begins. Just like new residential highrises, developers look to have a certain % leased or "intented" before starting. There are hardly ever any 100% "speculative" retail developments - especially in St. Louis. For the record, even the Bottle District had tenants lined up (Rawlings, etc.) and we are still waiting for the cement and steel trucks to arrive.
For example, we knew that Boulevard St. Louis had landed a Crate & Barrel, P.F. Changs, Maggianos, Bombay/Bombay Kids and Jared long before ground was cracked. We knew what stores were planned for the St. Louis Galleria's latest expansion before it started construction. Tenants are announced for new proposed developments all the time.
Also Matthew/E36, a developer is not going to pay for unrendered services. There is no builder making money off a project that is not even under construction. The ballpark and village are not a package. They are separate projects. The city just obligated the Cardinals' owners to develop that village within a certain time if they wanted incentives to build the stadium and village.
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An article in this month's St. Louis magazine reports that BPV will begin construction in August or September.
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I don't have a real reason to be pessimistic about the end product, but another small delay in the construction start date doesn't make me smile.
I don't mind delays as long as there is some sort of indication that things are moving. Maybe concrete plans as to the first phase of building, or a partial list of occupants in retail.
They said in the article that they though it would be prudent to sell the bonds before construction was set to begin. I'm fine with August because they said they still wanted it to be open in time for the All-Star game in 2009.
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Here's hoping they get something done by the time of the allstar game - I'll need somewhere to amuse myself when that game takes place .... I sure as hell wont be watching it - yawn ... id rather watch them all play whiffle ball.
Perhaps a big Coming Soon sign would suffice. Anything other than leaving most people to speculate. I don't doubt that it's going to happen, but that's pretty much only because I read this forum daily.... So I don't blame most St Louisans for being skeptical about this. They need to stir up more interest and anticipation in this project if it is indeed as sure thing as it's supposed to be. Again, a large attractive sign with a rendering would not be that difficult and would make a huge impression. I haven't been dowtown since baseball started, so if this has already been done, I recant.
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A big sign with a pretty picture would shut up the out of town fans for sure. Sadly, Im pretty sure lots of cards fans dont whats going in the big hole there either...
Cordish has apparently set up.............
stlballparkvillage.com
as the official website for the St. Louis (Cardinals) Ballpark Village. There is nothing on the website yet as it goes straight to Cordishes' website.
Keep checkin' it for updates.
stlballparkvillage.com
as the official website for the St. Louis (Cardinals) Ballpark Village. There is nothing on the website yet as it goes straight to Cordishes' website.
Keep checkin' it for updates.
Not sure if it's been referenced yet, but St. Louis magazine has a nice article on BP including a rendering that I hadn't seen yet of the the bottom of terraced highrise that has the Wrigley style bleachers on each level. It looked really cool and gave me a better look into the grand scale that this project will have. Had some good questions raised in there as well and a few more clues as to what to expect. They also reiterated that they are waiting for Missouri to pass the bonds or something before they start construction in August or September.
Interstingly, they said that there have been quite a few naysayers that think that this thing won't work
Interstingly, they said that there have been quite a few naysayers that think that this thing won't work
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Framer wrote:Damn Cubs fans!
I was at the Billy Joel concert last night, and the guy next to me brought his whole family for good floor seats. He lives 3 hours away, but asked if we would send him any info we see that comes out here on signing up for purchase of BP Village condos. He says he wants to buy one in the worst way for bringing clients to town for his business to view ballgames. He currently owns about 10 season tickets for clients and family.
He agreed with me that any condos in Ballpark Village are not going to be influenced by the local condo market. These will be unique properties.
^ Honestly, that's what I'm most worried about. I think they will sell out pretty much instantly, regardless of price. But I fear that too many of them will be bought not to live in but for rich people to have a "game home." This will make it harder for the businesses downstairs to keep the all year success.
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Arch City wrote:Also Matthew/E36, a developer is not going to pay for unrendered services. There is no builder making money off a project that is not even under construction. The ballpark and village are not a package. They are separate projects. The city just obligated the Cardinals' owners to develop that village within a certain time if they wanted incentives to build the stadium and village.
BUT, getting tax money for the ballpark was generally pitched along with the BPV as a "revitalization effort". As you noted, they are obligated to develop the village as part of the overall efforts, so they are ahead in terms of cashing in on the village.
I am excited about the project, but what I meant by "it's not a huge project" is there is not the same amount of lead time for something like a 40 story building, so the construction start for each tower is not far from construction end. So the buildings are not "huge undertakings" by themselves. That would make it easier to have tennants lined up vs a longer project. Sure, I agree they will have some tennants. I'm with probably everyone here hoping they have full houses sooner than later! I just don't think it is a prerequisite.
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stlmike wrote:^ Honestly, that's what I'm most worried about. I think they will sell out pretty much instantly, regardless of price. But I fear that too many of them will be bought not to live in but for rich people to have a "game home." This will make it harder for the businesses downstairs to keep the all year success.
More reason why we need more residential so there are enough units for investors, businesses and residents.
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Pretty decent article in St. Louis magazine this month, an interview with the Cordish Co.
If We Build It, Will They Come?
13 hardball questions for Ballpark Village's backers
By Charlene Prost
http://stlouismagazine.com/media/St-Lou ... They-Come/
If We Build It, Will They Come?
13 hardball questions for Ballpark Village's backers
By Charlene Prost
http://stlouismagazine.com/media/St-Lou ... They-Come/
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Grover's favorite question:
Well gee whiz, maybe not.
Are we ready for something this ambitious?
Well gee whiz, maybe not.