urbanSTL

The Cordish website now says there will be 1,200 residential units in ballpark village. I don't think I've seen this number before. In 2002, the origional plan was 400 units.

They were saying 500 to 1000 a month or so ago. Good to hear it is even more than that. That many units is going to require some big towers. The Bottle District has 3 large towers and it only has about 500-750 units. I think this may signal that the entire district will be highrises. That would be the only way to fit everything in.

Heres part of what they say on the site

Ballpark Village will feature approximately 450,000 square feet of retail/entertainment, 1,200 residential units, 400,000 square feet of office and 2,000 parking spaces.

Nearly a million sq. ft. of office and retail, plus 1200 residential units will take a lot of space. I would assume the 2000 spaces will be underground and in the bases of the buildings. In earlier plans the entire ballpark village had underground parking, so I would assume they are sticking with that. I can't wait for updated renderings.

Xing,



That made me sad.



Losing Busch Stadium is starting to really hit me. I've watched all season long as they've slowly whittled that number down. Now it's at 5. 5 regular season games left. I'm so excited for the new park, but Busch will always be home. It's the only park I've ever known (i've been to others, but it's what I grew up watching). Plus, the fact that they don't need to blow it up makes it even worse. In a way, watching the implosion would give a lot of fans closure. A sort of finality. However, we'll have to watch it slowly be brought down, which I think will be harder to watch.

WHAT!!!??? Its not being imploded? Where did you hear this. Im moving to San Francisco and was hoping to at least watch it on tv or something. Dam. They should definitely implode it for sentimental value, must be too close to the new stadium and other buildings?

The construction of the new ballpark is apparently way ahead of schedule due to the dry summer and mild winter, so they're going to demo it with a wrecking ball instead. Less dramatic, but a lot safer!

I don't really care much about Busch Stadium since it stands on the site of STL's original Chinatown 'hop alley'. That was demolished to under an urban renewal project which allowed for Busch to be built on site. However, its sad to see it go. Though I really like the idea of Ballpark Village. Anything that brings ppl back to downtown is great.

To put 1200 units into perspective:



Park East Tower-26 stories, only 89 units.

Opus' 2nd tower-28 stories, only 200 "smaller" units



And as mentioned earlier, the bottle district with 3 large towers and a wearhouse converted into lofts is estimated to have 500-750 units.



PLUS 1,000,000 sq ft of retail and office space means these buildings are going to have to be huge. Hell, 12 Park East Towers wouldn't even result in 1200 residential units (not to mention office space)!



I can't imagine what they would be planning in order to achieve these numbers on six square blocks. I admit, I'm skeptical.

Not only that, but think of the view from home plate. Do you really want a couple huge buildings blocking the entire view of downtown, or would you prefer a couple buildings of medium size that would more blend in with the cityscape while still allowing you to view the arch and other buildings from the seats?



I can't imagine that they're planning that many units, unless they are planning on construction on top of some of the surrounding buildings as well.

Honestly I never have liked the self imposed limit of everything being under the arch. Our tallest buildings are not very tall in the big scheme of things, and if someone is willing to build some tall boys so be it. Coming in from the east side the arch will still look bigger just from the perspective. I could live with some mid rise, but how are you going to fit that many units in mid rise buildings? I mean the whole block would have to be residential. I guess we will see how it plays out, but I say reach for the sky ;o).

I think most here would favor some taller buildings, but I think that we should keep some sort of perspective on the res buildings right around the ballpark.



There is plenty of space all over the city to create more highrises. I just feel that the building of the ballpark with home plate where it is was placed there so you could see the arch and the skyline. I just don't want that totally blocked out by a couple mammoth res buildings.

From the looks of the photos on stlcardinals.com, it looks like fans will still be able to see the arch with the ballpark village being to the left of the arch from that angle. I think it would look very cool if the condos were sloped and curved up from southeast to northwest. (Southeast being the lower levels). However, this might block the skyline view of the other buildings for those sitting along the first-base line.



Original renderings:





My lame attempts at illustrating:

I'm excited by the prospect of some really big buildings going in here. The south side of downtown needs to be beefed up to balance the north side in all of those pretty postcard shots. I think for the most part, this site is far enough away from the Arch for a 40 or 50 story building. And come on, you know the Cardinals aren't going to let them build anything that blocks the (TV) shots of the Arch from the stadium.



But let's get real here. I think those numbers they are throwing out might be a bit optomistic.

MarkinLondon, I like your renderings. As long as they don't block the arch view from the stadium, I am looking forwards to tall or mid. Just as long as they get lots of people down there.

Yeah, those numbers have got to be high. Besides, doesn't anyone else see whats happening here: the Ballpark Village and the Bottle District are direct competitors. The Bottle District just had its day in the sun with all the renderings and number were released. So now Cordish and the Cards are trying to take some of the focus back and get some excitement for there project.



As for the numbers and heights and whatever else. That 400,000 seems low for the office space. Thats like what a 13 or 14 story buildings. Frankly, this space seems like the best possible location for any new office site to get firms moving back downtown. I feel this number may rise over time.

The residental unit number are high, or the units are tiny, or the cards have secertly purchased the lot between 4th and Broadway east of the Stadium (which in a dream world would be great). Since i doubt its the last, and the second could be nice, but i would guess no. They just infated the numbers. My guess, you will get some 23 to -30 story buildings, but nother to block the great views of the rest of downtown. For TV purposes they will never block the arch.

I dont understand the assertion that things should or should not be built because of the way the skyline will look on a postcard. Who does that benefit besides the postcard industry (I know the postcard lobby is strong, but I've heard their new leadership is very open to compromise). It has been coming up a lot recently in this thread, the bottle dist, the new bridge, and others and I just dont see that as a reason to do anything. Nor do I think it is any decision-makers reason for putting a particular building in a particular location. It's almost an afterthought, and if the econ or political realities change so will the importance of 'pretty skyline' from the developers power-point presentation.



I dont think I've ever read a comprehensive plan for any city that stated as one of it's goals 'picture perfect skyline'. I don't think it's a reason anyone would move to StL, and I dont think it should be one of our goals. It should happen organically over time and as a result of making the city a better urban environment.



I'm guessing I'll get slammed for this especially since this forum grew out of skyscraper page (correct?).

Truthfully I think they could build that whole block and fill it with people. Knowing the way this community loves the Cardinals you could fill that area with die hard cards fans alone. That being said there is of course space restrictions in that area especially if they are wanting a bunch of other stuff. They really have no choice in my opinion if they want a good amount of residential (say even half of what they are saying) then to build a couple 50 plus story high rises. The arch would not be blocked and truthfully that's just a small sub section of the landscape. Obviously though the best views for residential will be straight into the stadium so it would have to be down the left field line and the power alleys over to the right field power alley.I can't wait for new renderings.

Construction on that lot east of the ballpark (that JMedwick mentioned) would go a long way towards creating a true "ballpark village" with development on three sides of the park. Right now, that area is such a dead zone with the garage, community college and Tums facility.

Imagine if you could get a corner apartment in the building and out of one side of your apartment you can watch the Cards game, while on the other you can gaze out to see the Arch. Yikes.