The new slide show from the cardinals does show one building at the corner of Broadway and Walnut and it looks real nice.
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The link posted above is listed as an HOK design. I don't think these have anything to do with the Cordish lead project .... am I wrong?
By the way ... how about these ideas for the Ballpark Village:
1. An AB run bar. Maybe they could even set up a little microbrewery and let there cast of talented beer masters whip up wierd, unusual and unique brews available nowhere else.
2. Maybe ressurect the Lemp recipes and put a microbrewery there ala Schlaffley Bottle Works.
3. Obviously, an ESPN Zone is a no brainer.
4. I assume there will be a large urban plaza outside of left field - why not set it up so it can double as an ampitheater for concersty and such (maybe the Busch Stadium arches could be used here ???)
5. Lots and lots of residential.
6. (I can hope can't I) A large Tower serving as the headquarters for Express Scripts.
7. Tons of underground parking.
Posted: 03 Jun 2005 02:36 pm
oh yeah .. and lets have a little ted drewes shop ....
Posted: 03 Jun 2005 02:38 pm
and how about a wine shop/bar that specializes in Missouri wines.
1. An AB run bar. Maybe they could even set up a little microbrewery and let there cast of talented beer masters whip up wierd, unusual and unique brews available nowhere else.
2. Maybe ressurect the Lemp recipes and put a microbrewery there ala Schlaffley Bottle Works.
3. Obviously, an ESPN Zone is a no brainer.
4. I assume there will be a large urban plaza outside of left field - why not set it up so it can double as an ampitheater for concersty and such (maybe the Busch Stadium arches could be used here ???)
5. Lots and lots of residential.
6. (I can hope can't I) A large Tower serving as the headquarters for Express Scripts.
7. Tons of underground parking.
Posted: 03 Jun 2005 02:36 pm
oh yeah .. and lets have a little ted drewes shop ....
Posted: 03 Jun 2005 02:38 pm
and how about a wine shop/bar that specializes in Missouri wines.
markofucity, I like all your ideas, But Ted Drewes and wine shop/bar specializing in Missouri wines really caught my eye.
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At the bottom of one of the slides read "HOK" and 9/17/2004.
I think these may be some older designs from HOK, and not anything Cordish has put together. Indeed, they were just named the developer this week.
I think these may be some older designs from HOK, and not anything Cordish has put together. Indeed, they were just named the developer this week.
Does anyone know how we can actually suggest our ideas to the developers of the BPV? I seriously doubt the developers are monitoring this site. I would love to see these ideas put into motion.
When i heard people were trying to resurect the Lemp name i thought of the same thing. Really a great idea mark.
I like the AB idea, however i am not sure if state laws would allow it. Seems like before the depression AB and other larger brewers owned many bars, but after the depression this practice was curtailed.
Though I and many others probably still wonder if this project will ever get done, it would be nice if the project atracts alot of intrest to see it expanded to cover the lot between broadway and 4th next to 40.
I like the AB idea, however i am not sure if state laws would allow it. Seems like before the depression AB and other larger brewers owned many bars, but after the depression this practice was curtailed.
Though I and many others probably still wonder if this project will ever get done, it would be nice if the project atracts alot of intrest to see it expanded to cover the lot between broadway and 4th next to 40.
markofucity wrote:By the way ... how about these ideas for the Ballpark Village:
2. Maybe ressurect the Lemp recipes and put a microbrewery there ala Schlaffley Bottle Works.
Somebody beat you to that idea....
http://www.lempbeer.com/
like the AB idea, however i am not sure if state laws would allow it.
I am sure there are loop holes. For example, if AB were to open up a "AB Brewery restaurant...."
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Not only did they beat you to the idea, they did it by making a pretty bad beer. I bought a six pack of it a few weeks bad and thought it weak at best. I doubt a microbrew using that recipe would have many customers.
AB has a bar already at Lambert (The B Lounge) which is the same name as their multi million dollar tour bus that caters to celebrities at major events. (Hosted Nelley on the Landing during Final Four).
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Miller has a Miller Time Cafe in Milwaukee, so I guess it's possible. It would be cool to be able to visit an AB-owned bar and be able to get beer that was brewed that day. AB ran a promotion at a Cards game last year where all the beer served had a born on date of that day.
That Lemp beer really is pretty lousy. And not only does it not taste good, it's expensive as well. Hopefully the resurrected Griesedieck Beer will be better.
That Lemp beer really is pretty lousy. And not only does it not taste good, it's expensive as well. Hopefully the resurrected Griesedieck Beer will be better.
Ballabans in the west end serves Griesedieck and it's fantastic!
I think the major reason there are so many skeptics is because they witnessed developers in the 1980's say that Union Station and St. Louis Centre would be catalysts for renewal downtown. One problem with those projects, and others, was that they did not incorporate living/ residential arrangements with them. With people living in, and being a "part" of the new developments, I think there's far more potential for these to succeed. This hasn't really been addressed yet, but safety is probably the biggest issue for many. Maybe this is a misconception, but Union Station had the alleged "gang problem", this was addressed in a recent St. Louis Magazine article. Of course problems at the Galleria go unreported.. what does everyone else think?
JCity wrote:I think the major reason there are so many skeptics is because they witnessed developers in the 1980's say that Union Station and St. Louis Centre would be catalysts for renewal downtown. One problem with those projects, and others, was that they did not incorporate living/ residential arrangements with them. With people living in, and being a "part" of the new developments, I think there's far more potential for these to succeed.
Good point J. I guess old habits die hard. How can you expect somebody who has seen the city make promises and fail time after time and again. The city basically was declining from the 50s up to about 2000, and for those of which grew only witnessing that, what else can you expect them to think except "yeah right, no way".
But as more and more people begin to understand the importance of residential within mixed use projects, most will eventually jump on the bandwagon. Just the other day, however, a freind asked what was gonna happen when they ripped down Busch stadium, and when I said they would probably and hopefully build some cool high-rise residential towers, another freind jumped in right away saying how that could possibly be the dumbest idea that he had ever heard of. He obviously knew nothing about it, but his parents and freinds out in the burbs have brainwashed him his whole life with misconceptions of the city. Hopefully the incoming generation can grow up witnessing the triumph of st louis and other great cities. I have a hard time accepting the opinions of critics that. I have a lot of confidence in Cordish and the Cardinals. Does anybody agree to my logic or do the skeptics have more valid reasons that maybe I am unaware of?
I agree with that, but I think a lot of people also have mistrust in the Cardinals because they are a big corporation. Many thought they were just dangling the idea of Ballpark Village until they got public funding. I always new it would be built just by the simple fact that I knew that the Cardinals owners would not put up with an empty lot that is visible on national tv right outside their new $400 million stadium. Plus it is an oppurtunitty to make some money. I bet they can finance the stadium with what they will make off the village. The two developments combined could near $1 billion. Its already at about $850 million combined. There is a lot of money that could be made when you invest that much.
Skeptics are just that...skeptical. They don't have any reason to be skeptical any longer. The vitalization of downtown is in effect...if they are still skeptical at this point, ask them to drive downtown and look at what has happened down there. Drive along the loft district, and see that it is a booming residential area. I know tons of people who would step over their own mother to have a view of the new ballpark from their living room, including myself. ANd if the Cardinals hold true, you'll be able to watch the game from some places...take THAT Wrigleyville! 
The thing that is gonna maintain this momentum for several years to come are the people who are currently living in the city and those about to move in. The key is to force enough changes in things that affect us daily, particularly crime and the school board. The public school system needs fixing, and if people work together, you can push a lot of crime out of the residential areas downtown. Both of those I really feel are a matter of time, and soon people will be living downtown and in the city like never before.
But...then again, I'm not a skeptic.
The thing that is gonna maintain this momentum for several years to come are the people who are currently living in the city and those about to move in. The key is to force enough changes in things that affect us daily, particularly crime and the school board. The public school system needs fixing, and if people work together, you can push a lot of crime out of the residential areas downtown. Both of those I really feel are a matter of time, and soon people will be living downtown and in the city like never before.
But...then again, I'm not a skeptic.
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First off. If you're UCityMan and I'm MarkofUcity perhaps we shoudl battle or something...
I completely agree with you. I've grown up in St. Louis and its hard to break that mindset of decline. Like you said ... the city has been continually shooting itself in the foot for the last 50 years. My parents and most of their contemporaries still think the city is just a lost cause. I think my father would bet on France's millitary prowess before he'd wager on St. Louis City. .. Just the other day I told him that I was looking at buying property in the city ... he said "I wouldn't buy property in an area where you can hear gun shots."
I completely agree with you. I've grown up in St. Louis and its hard to break that mindset of decline. Like you said ... the city has been continually shooting itself in the foot for the last 50 years. My parents and most of their contemporaries still think the city is just a lost cause. I think my father would bet on France's millitary prowess before he'd wager on St. Louis City. .. Just the other day I told him that I was looking at buying property in the city ... he said "I wouldn't buy property in an area where you can hear gun shots."
Looks like a lot of residential units are planned. How cool would it be to live there??!!
http://msnbc.msn.com/id/8538608/
DeWitt estimated it will be a year to 14 months before ground is broken for the buildings in the ballpark village. The Cardinals' goal is to have between 500 and 1,000 residential units, with a mix of for-sale and for-rent offerings, DeWitt said. That amount is necessary to have a critical mass to support the new restaurants in the off-season.
The residential component of the project will have views of the ball field like the rooftop buildings across the street from Wrigley Field in Chicago or apartments across from Oriole Park at Camden Yards in Baltimore.
http://msnbc.msn.com/id/8538608/
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If they have apartments/condos with views of the new park count me in. that would rock! this place (STL CITY) is gonna be crazy in a few years..
Unfortunately, BP Village won't be completed for another few years and THAT SUCKS! Hopefully I still be living in STL.
I'd be surprised if they squeeze 500-1000 residential units there. Think about it, Park East Tower alone only has 89 units. If they even want to hit 500, you're talking a couple 40 story high-rise condo buildings. That would be huge.
