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It's a pretty uninspiring plan, but it has a more naturalistic grasslands area where no doubt they'll be able to use a lot of natural prairie plants. That free roaming area plus the gondolas exists at Busch Gardens in Tampa Bay, and it is a much better way to provide for giraffes than what exists at Red Rocks. It should be a very good thing other than the highway noise.
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Why can't they just partner with Grant's Farm as the breeding facility? Or why can't they put the breeding facility on a much much larger piece of land in St. Charles County and use it as a long term strategy to draw that silly place into the ZMD? They could probably get a much much bigger area in St. Charles County and just let bison and elephants roam around in the surplus acres. A prairie safari / breeding facility out there would not in any way compete with the dense animals as entertainment scene in Forest Park.
Why can't they just partner with Grant's Farm as the breeding facility? Or why can't they put the breeding facility on a much much larger piece of land in St. Charles County and use it as a long term strategy to draw that silly place into the ZMD? They could probably get a much much bigger area in St. Charles County and just let bison and elephants roam around in the surplus acres. A prairie safari / breeding facility out there would not in any way compete with the dense animals as entertainment scene in Forest Park.
^ I think getting giant pandas would do a lot to boost zoo attendance. There are not many zoos in the US that have them, so it would be a unique feature to STL (currently only Washington DC, Atlanta, San Diego, and Memphis have them).
The gondola seems like it could be a boondoggle, but it could generate revenue and help with placemaking the zoo, Forest Park, and the new south expansion area. As long as it is a modern cable car and not an old open air thing like Busch Gardens, highways noise and pollution would probably not be much of an issue.
It would be cool to see mid- to high-rise residential and hotel as part of the south of I-64 campus, making the zoo a short walk/gondola ride away. Something mixed-use, built to the street, and connecting well to the zoo and adjacent neighborhood.
The gondola seems like it could be a boondoggle, but it could generate revenue and help with placemaking the zoo, Forest Park, and the new south expansion area. As long as it is a modern cable car and not an old open air thing like Busch Gardens, highways noise and pollution would probably not be much of an issue.
It would be cool to see mid- to high-rise residential and hotel as part of the south of I-64 campus, making the zoo a short walk/gondola ride away. Something mixed-use, built to the street, and connecting well to the zoo and adjacent neighborhood.
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^my 2 cents
-Acacia Grasslands. Still LOVE this concept Not a lot of change from previous concepts and I'm guessing thats because they hit the nail on the head with the original pitch. Feeding giraffes sounds sweet. Rerouted train through
-Silk Road. I'm not sure how you re-purpose the red rocks which was built to kind of mimic an African Serangiti-esque feel, into an aesthetically Asian oriented attraction. And I also remember some talk about Red Rocks having a National Historic Site designation. Wait they said Giant Pandas. SOLD.
-Legends of the Forest. I'm a little skeptical... Giant domes..? I do get trying to move to a more sheltered experience to raise attendance in the winter, and i realize the current primate and reptile house are probably in need of extensive renovations. It's also not clear to me whether they are talking complete removal of the primate house as it is labeled on the diagram, but not outlined. I'm am mixed on whether i think that is a good thing as the reptile, primate, and bird houses are the most historic buildings on the zoo campus, but also some the least conducive to viewing the animals. So I am definitely on board with doing something but i am not convinced they have hit the right note with this concept.
-Old Forest Park Hospital Site. The featured Hotel on old Forest Park Hospital site is IMHO no brainer and a great choice, they seem to have moved away from the "new attraction" concept which I think is wise. I just don't see a solitary attraction being a big enough draw to justify the investment. Now if some part of the concept was incorporated into the hotel, that would be really amazing. Think: typical embassy suites like layout, except the central courtyard is basically a Rainforest canopy. Now THAT sounds AMAZING to me. I think they should ditch the bulk of the children's play area idea in favor of more revenue generating features whether they are restaurants, retail, or office. Turtle Park is LITERALLY right across Oakland and the city investing in more turtle related playground features is IMHO a much better approach. Also moving Zoo administration to this site seems logical as well, I think the wading pool could easily be part of that as well. I think it makes sense to sell the parcel south of Clayton. I do not think the zoo should own any residential property but that parcel needs to become townhouses, condos, or apartments, so the sale needs to be somehow contingent on it not being used as a paid third party parking lot.
-Gondola. They are pretty set on this, and the 'animal viewing from the above' concept has some merit. It's fine i guess. Hopefully they keep it classy.
-Conservation Breeding Site. Zoo is apparently committed to this. My thinking is if you are asking for tax-payer money for this then it must be in large measure open to the public. Additionally currently local taxpayer's support the current zoo site, and Lone Elk Park and through their attendance and generosity, Grant's Farm. Would the region support another wildlife park? Lastly going from zero to 300 acres is a massive undertaking. For these reasons I think the Grant's Farm still makes the most sense for this concept. I think a middle way that maintains the current property's current "free-range"character but opening up some of the currently under utilized space for the zoo's program would be by far the best solution for the region. Billy Busch needs to focus on making beer here first IMHO.
-Acacia Grasslands. Still LOVE this concept Not a lot of change from previous concepts and I'm guessing thats because they hit the nail on the head with the original pitch. Feeding giraffes sounds sweet. Rerouted train through
-Silk Road. I'm not sure how you re-purpose the red rocks which was built to kind of mimic an African Serangiti-esque feel, into an aesthetically Asian oriented attraction. And I also remember some talk about Red Rocks having a National Historic Site designation. Wait they said Giant Pandas. SOLD.
-Legends of the Forest. I'm a little skeptical... Giant domes..? I do get trying to move to a more sheltered experience to raise attendance in the winter, and i realize the current primate and reptile house are probably in need of extensive renovations. It's also not clear to me whether they are talking complete removal of the primate house as it is labeled on the diagram, but not outlined. I'm am mixed on whether i think that is a good thing as the reptile, primate, and bird houses are the most historic buildings on the zoo campus, but also some the least conducive to viewing the animals. So I am definitely on board with doing something but i am not convinced they have hit the right note with this concept.
-Old Forest Park Hospital Site. The featured Hotel on old Forest Park Hospital site is IMHO no brainer and a great choice, they seem to have moved away from the "new attraction" concept which I think is wise. I just don't see a solitary attraction being a big enough draw to justify the investment. Now if some part of the concept was incorporated into the hotel, that would be really amazing. Think: typical embassy suites like layout, except the central courtyard is basically a Rainforest canopy. Now THAT sounds AMAZING to me. I think they should ditch the bulk of the children's play area idea in favor of more revenue generating features whether they are restaurants, retail, or office. Turtle Park is LITERALLY right across Oakland and the city investing in more turtle related playground features is IMHO a much better approach. Also moving Zoo administration to this site seems logical as well, I think the wading pool could easily be part of that as well. I think it makes sense to sell the parcel south of Clayton. I do not think the zoo should own any residential property but that parcel needs to become townhouses, condos, or apartments, so the sale needs to be somehow contingent on it not being used as a paid third party parking lot.
-Gondola. They are pretty set on this, and the 'animal viewing from the above' concept has some merit. It's fine i guess. Hopefully they keep it classy.
-Conservation Breeding Site. Zoo is apparently committed to this. My thinking is if you are asking for tax-payer money for this then it must be in large measure open to the public. Additionally currently local taxpayer's support the current zoo site, and Lone Elk Park and through their attendance and generosity, Grant's Farm. Would the region support another wildlife park? Lastly going from zero to 300 acres is a massive undertaking. For these reasons I think the Grant's Farm still makes the most sense for this concept. I think a middle way that maintains the current property's current "free-range"character but opening up some of the currently under utilized space for the zoo's program would be by far the best solution for the region. Billy Busch needs to focus on making beer here first IMHO.
I do think in the long run a breeding facility St. Charles county does make sense if you want any hope of securing a broader sales tax region. As StlEnginerd noted, can also see why Grant's farm was so tempting with large tract of land, some built infrastructure in place that for most part already caters to what they are looking for and probably the closest location in the county itself from the zoo. But Busch family has to decide its future so glad zoo is searching for alternatives instead of standing by for a long litigation battle.
As far as the plan, I do like the idea of turning over the foot print of south parking lot for a larger free roaming exhibit and incorporating a hotel (with aquatic feature or park)/commercial/zoo offices at the old Forest Hospital park site. These are the best parts by far. While that and having giant Pandas!!! Also, can't help but think that the hotel/commercial concept on Hampton could came together a lot sooner and independent of the south parking lot conversion to exhibit space and or the gondola
Not surprised at the structured parking and think it is a fair trade off if done inconjunction with a strong Hampton Ave street facing structure as per site plan. I rather keep residential for the surrounding neighborhood. My wish item to add. Extend Loop trolley to Zoo/Hampton Ave/Dogtown.
As far as the plan, I do like the idea of turning over the foot print of south parking lot for a larger free roaming exhibit and incorporating a hotel (with aquatic feature or park)/commercial/zoo offices at the old Forest Hospital park site. These are the best parts by far. While that and having giant Pandas!!! Also, can't help but think that the hotel/commercial concept on Hampton could came together a lot sooner and independent of the south parking lot conversion to exhibit space and or the gondola
Not surprised at the structured parking and think it is a fair trade off if done inconjunction with a strong Hampton Ave street facing structure as per site plan. I rather keep residential for the surrounding neighborhood. My wish item to add. Extend Loop trolley to Zoo/Hampton Ave/Dogtown.
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^ I am reminded of the Opryland hotel (probably because I was there last weekend). I could see an enclosure like the humungous courtyard Enclosures at the hotel work here.
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^This, except more rainforest-y. Canopy walks, live animal exhibits like monkeys, jaguars, ocelots sloths, anacondas, parrots and macaws free to fly around, and big freaking waterfall.
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At one point, they were looking at the rainforest at the California Academy of Sciences for inspiration on the hotel site. If you haven't googled that, google it.
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Don't read the STLtoday comments.
I shouldn't have to remind myself of this, but it's my PSA to you all.
I shouldn't have to remind myself of this, but it's my PSA to you all.
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One thing is certain. The view of downtown from the various hi-pointes around Skinker and 64 will change. I would imagine the view of the arch glowing under the setting sun you see when you turn onto the highway off Skinker would be greatly enhanced or ruined depending on how this gondola and pedestrian bridge effort works out. The zoo could really take control of what people see on that stretch of road. They should get something like the giant giraffe Bob Cassilly made for the Dallas zoo. The turtles and the elephant sculptures are human scaled. They need something car scaled like a crocodile the size of the Hampton overpass. Maybe with that pedestrian bridge over the highway they could do something crazy like that.
The climatron is quite old, and for that matter the Eden project is now quite old. This is a long range plan, so giant domes a decade from now could be pretty amazing if they follow the Eden project's examples.STLEnginerd wrote: -Legends of the Forest. I'm a little skeptical... Giant domes..? I do get trying to move to a more sheltered experience to raise attendance in the winter, and i realize the current primate and reptile house are probably in need of extensive renovations. It's also not clear to me whether they are talking complete removal of the primate house as it is labeled on the diagram, but not outlined. I'm am mixed on whether i think that is a good thing as the reptile, primate, and bird houses are the most historic buildings on the zoo campus, but also some the least conducive to viewing the animals. So I am definitely on board with doing something but i am not convinced they have hit the right note with this concept.
Page 53 of the framework plan has some great images of the planned pedestrian bridge over the highway. Hopefully it would be wide and sound buffered over the highway itself. The concept is solid. It connects really well between Oakland and the bike path in the park. It would connect the Turtle Park to the bike tunnel under Hampton really smoothly. The existing Tamm overpass isn't horrible, but this would be much better.
https://swtdesign.sharefile.com/share?c ... ?_k=0pw4v6
Personally I never visit the zoo unless I'm cutting through it on foot to get somewhere in the park. Same with the Science Center overpass. The free admission aspects of the two institutions has allowed me to be that guy. Hopefully the zoo will allow bikes on the overpass and treat it as a public space. No zoo that I know of has anything like a public High Line park connecting it's campuses. They should get GRG to help them plan a "Zoo Greenway." It could be one of the most interesting parts of Forest Park considering the probable view of the park and downtown.
https://swtdesign.sharefile.com/share?c ... ?_k=0pw4v6
Personally I never visit the zoo unless I'm cutting through it on foot to get somewhere in the park. Same with the Science Center overpass. The free admission aspects of the two institutions has allowed me to be that guy. Hopefully the zoo will allow bikes on the overpass and treat it as a public space. No zoo that I know of has anything like a public High Line park connecting it's campuses. They should get GRG to help them plan a "Zoo Greenway." It could be one of the most interesting parts of Forest Park considering the probable view of the park and downtown.
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Someone needs to develop an app that replaces Post-Dispatch comments with pictures of kittens.stlhistory wrote:Don't read the STLtoday comments.
I shouldn't have to remind myself of this, but it's my PSA to you all.
Presbyterian wrote:Someone needs to develop an app that replaces Post-Dispatch comments with pictures of kittens.stlhistory wrote:Don't read the STLtoday comments.
I shouldn't have to remind myself of this, but it's my PSA to you all.
On it!
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^ if you need any crowdfunding I've got your back!
STL Zoo buying 425 acres in North County for animal conservation:
http://www.stltoday.com/entertainment/s ... 94038.html
http://www.stltoday.com/entertainment/s ... 94038.html
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And apparently there is a zoo expansion topic separate from the general ZMD topic. I stand corrected.
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It would do them some good to seek out a partner developer to develop a hotel, seek out a donor for a new research building, and then with whatever land that remains, construct either lab space or parcel it off for another residential building.dweebe wrote: ↑4:06 AM - Mar 01The Zoo owns it but they're all in on the north county campus for now.stlgasm wrote: ↑2:41 AM - Mar 01^Not to mention the vast wasteland where Deaconess Hospital was demolished. Why this site hasn't been a top priority for development is beyond me.
https://stlzoo.org/about/wildcare-park
The former Forest Park Hosptial site makes me want a tax revolt or something like our Zoo-Museum district's property taxes shouldn't be paying for landbanking of valuable real estate like this.
I feel like a moderate amount of pressure from the alderman, SLDC, Mayors office would get it moving.
So the wild park opens up in 2027; does anyone know what the admission price will be? I'm thinking it is free for STL county residents, only, right?dweebe wrote: ↑4:06 AM - Mar 01The Zoo owns it but they're all in on the north county campus for now.stlgasm wrote: ↑2:41 AM - Mar 01^Not to mention the vast wasteland where Deaconess Hospital was demolished. Why this site hasn't been a top priority for development is beyond me.
https://stlzoo.org/about/wildcare-park
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Yes it will be free to STL county residents & I forget if it’s free for city residents as well
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Agreed, honestly there should be someone at the city/SLDC who is doing this kind of work. Plenty of properties that need someone to connect them to some developer/program - Municipal Courts Building comes to mind.addxb2 wrote: ↑4:04 PM - Mar 01I feel like a moderate amount of pressure from the alderman, SLDC, Mayors office would get it moving.
In 2018, county voters passed Proposition Z, an 1/8th of 1 percent sales tax to provide funding for the zoo. St. Louis City did not pass it, so city residents will pay. I've not seen anything yet re: what admission prices will be.PlatinumBlues wrote: ↑1:44 AM - Mar 02Yes it will be free to STL county residents & I forget if it’s free for city residents as well
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-RBB