gone corporate, I agree to some extent but on the other hand, while seemingly absurd, my initial phantasia of a walk of the animals to the Ark is exactly what the Kentucky legislature approved public finding for. It is surreal, but does give a window into a large segment of society and sad to say, our Missouri legislature is becoming one of the most crazy in the land.gone corporate wrote:Way over the rails... This is about the Zoo, not personal politics. No more Christ riding a T-Rex, please.
Worst-case scenario: Some assh*le gets inspired and fights for these ideas to happen.
- 8,155
Zoo has released its vision and it could be pretty awesome.
http://www.stltoday.com/news/local/govt ... c3e1e.html
St. Louis Zoo officials will present today the most ambitious expansion plan in zoo history, envisioning a new southern campus with a boutique hotel, a research center, a major attraction — such as an indoor rainforest habitat or aquarium — and a gondola soaring above it all.
In addition, the expansion — into the old Forest Park Hospital site south of Highway 40 — would clear room for new animal exhibits inside the current zoo grounds. A subarctic habitat could displace the existing administration building. The children’s zoo could grow.
A nine-acre, multi-species savanna — or even an “ocean,” complete with islands — could replace the entire south parking lot. A pedestrian bridge would span the highway. And the gondola, leaders envision, could carry passengers on overhead cables from the south campus to the main zoo....
http://www.stltoday.com/news/local/govt ... c3e1e.html
St. Louis Zoo officials will present today the most ambitious expansion plan in zoo history, envisioning a new southern campus with a boutique hotel, a research center, a major attraction — such as an indoor rainforest habitat or aquarium — and a gondola soaring above it all.
In addition, the expansion — into the old Forest Park Hospital site south of Highway 40 — would clear room for new animal exhibits inside the current zoo grounds. A subarctic habitat could displace the existing administration building. The children’s zoo could grow.
A nine-acre, multi-species savanna — or even an “ocean,” complete with islands — could replace the entire south parking lot. A pedestrian bridge would span the highway. And the gondola, leaders envision, could carry passengers on overhead cables from the south campus to the main zoo....
- 25
Even if only half of these projects get built in the long-term, I really admire the Zoo's ambition. Their vision and ambition is a real example for other institutions and organizations in the StL area
It just goes to show how much more successful/admired an organization or development can be when it includes the community in the design process from the beginning (i.e. CityArchRiver). Granted nothing is built yet, but they've certainly set a good precedent that I think other organizations should follow.
- 11K
It sounds as though the commissioners are going to endorse what we saw in May:
http://nextstl.com/urban-living/st-loui ... -expansion
![]()
http://nextstl.com/urban-living/st-loui ... -expansion
I notice they've started tearing down part of the old hospital. Looks like the east parking garage and the doctor's building.
- 8,904
How do people feel about the Gondolas? What about having them continue on to other attractions at the park? Assuming a route could be found that woudl be not too invasive of our favorite vistas nor interfere with the golf course what about continueing to the Art Museum/Science Center/Ice Rink?
- 10K
So the current parking lot would be completely removed, eh?
I would assume not until parking is built on the old FP Hospital land.debaliviere wrote:So the current parking lot would be completely removed, eh?
- 1,299
Will general admission still be free? If not, I'd rather keep the Zoo the way it is and not raise the price of admission.
- 3,428
I thought this plan looked very familiar. I think I may have been the first on this forum to suggest that they move parking across the highway and use the current lot for more zoo stuff. (I try to find the most obvious low hanging fruit right ahead of the geniuses just so I can take credit.Alex Ihnen wrote:It sounds as though the commissioners are going to endorse what we saw in May:
http://nextstl.com/urban-living/st-loui ... -expansion
)http://urbanstl.com/forum/viewtopic.php ... al#p184207
- 1,320
Zoo will remain free. Add-ons like the gondola ride likely would be a source of revenue like the zoo train and children's zoo.
At the open house, planning reps said they had not yet decided whether or not the gondola entrance by the Living World would be inside, outside or in the middle of the zoo entrance. A station outside the gates would allow for use in the evenings and for special park events when the zoo itself is closed. That also could translate into increased revenue.
At the open house, planning reps said they had not yet decided whether or not the gondola entrance by the Living World would be inside, outside or in the middle of the zoo entrance. A station outside the gates would allow for use in the evenings and for special park events when the zoo itself is closed. That also could translate into increased revenue.
- 1,868
Does St Louis own a stake in a gondola company or something? I'm not anti-gondola, but why are they showing up in everything now?
- 49
^It would be a super cool thing to have, its not going to make it in every project but might as well show something and see which project bites. I am sure once one is built then you will see less projects include them. I think the zoo is the best place to have one.
- 8,155
While zoo entry will remain free, I do worry that the transformation could erode the essential identity of being a free zoo. Sure there are a few fee-based activities currently, but they are modest and you don't feel like a heel if you don't partake. But I'm just thinking for example of parking.... I wouldn't be surprised that parking in south campus would be $15 - $20 in today's $$ with no free parking available. Possibly another 5 bucks per adult to take the gondola over. Most likely a star attraction on south campus like an aquarium would charge, but would so too the open range safari? I suppose people of modest means could continue to park for free in FP and access the park at the north entrance, but getting to south campus would be a long hike. If leadership is not careful, the zoo could lose its essential identity while still technically being "free."Presbyterian wrote:Zoo will remain free. Add-ons like the gondola ride likely would be a source of revenue like the zoo train and children's zoo.
At the open house, planning reps said they had not yet decided whether or not the gondola entrance by the Living World would be inside, outside or in the middle of the zoo entrance. A station outside the gates would allow for use in the evenings and for special park events when the zoo itself is closed. That also could translate into increased revenue.
Charging for the new additions doesn't take away anything though. Everyone would still have free access to everything that they had before. I would rather see them charge than go the tax route.roger wyoming II wrote:While zoo entry will remain free, I do worry that the transformation could erode the essential identity of being a free zoo. Sure there are a few fee-based activities currently, but they are modest and you don't feel like a heel if you don't partake. But I'm just thinking for example of parking.... I wouldn't be surprised that parking in south campus would be $15 - $20 in today's $$ with no free parking available. Possibly another 5 bucks per adult to take the gondola over. Most likely a star attraction on south campus like an aquarium would charge, but would so too the open range safari? I suppose people of modest means could continue to park for free in FP and access the park at the north entrance, but getting to south campus would be a long hike. If leadership is not careful, the zoo could lose its essential identity while still technically being "free."Presbyterian wrote:Zoo will remain free. Add-ons like the gondola ride likely would be a source of revenue like the zoo train and children's zoo.
At the open house, planning reps said they had not yet decided whether or not the gondola entrance by the Living World would be inside, outside or in the middle of the zoo entrance. A station outside the gates would allow for use in the evenings and for special park events when the zoo itself is closed. That also could translate into increased revenue.
Roger,
Have you been to the Zoo recently? Parking at both the North and South lots is already $15 a car. Finding free parking on a day with nice weather is already a challenge and usually requires a healthy walk.
Have you been to the Zoo recently? Parking at both the North and South lots is already $15 a car. Finding free parking on a day with nice weather is already a challenge and usually requires a healthy walk.
I want to say parking was $10 two years ago, $11 or $12 last year and jumped to $15 this year. They need to calm the *bleep* down on those price increases.roger wyoming II wrote:While zoo entry will remain free, I do worry that the transformation could erode the essential identity of being a free zoo. Sure there are a few fee-based activities currently, but they are modest and you don't feel like a heel if you don't partake. But I'm just thinking for example of parking.... I wouldn't be surprised that parking in south campus would be $15 - $20 in today's $$ with no free parking available. Possibly another 5 bucks per adult to take the gondola over. Most likely a star attraction on south campus like an aquarium would charge, but would so too the open range safari? I suppose people of modest means could continue to park for free in FP and access the park at the north entrance, but getting to south campus would be a long hike. If leadership is not careful, the zoo could lose its essential identity while still technically being "free."Presbyterian wrote:Zoo will remain free. Add-ons like the gondola ride likely would be a source of revenue like the zoo train and children's zoo.
At the open house, planning reps said they had not yet decided whether or not the gondola entrance by the Living World would be inside, outside or in the middle of the zoo entrance. A station outside the gates would allow for use in the evenings and for special park events when the zoo itself is closed. That also could translate into increased revenue.
My mom just came back from San Diego and visited the zoo. (She just had to see the pandas.) Free parking, but she said her entry as a senior was almost $40.
- 8,155
^^^ There's no doubt that you still could have a wonderful experience w/o partaking in the fee-based attractions, but the overall dynamic would change if the new stuff is all $$. I think right now you can get a Zoofari pass or whatever for $10 bucks that includes most of the fee-based activities (train, children's zoo, etc.) . If that is bumped up a bit by adding a gondola ride or something that's fine, and it is logical for a more stand-alone attraction like an aquarium to have an admission, but if the new exciting exhibits like "Wild Safari Range" are also payola then I do think that would be a big disappointment.
Perhaps one thing they could look at regarding the tax versus fee-based issue is give residents within the ZMD a significant price break on the admissions. This potentially could entice other counties to join the ZMD. So for example, ZMD residents could get an attractive Zoofari Pass for $10 while non-residents would pay $25. It may reduce membership revenue depending upon how things are structured, but if a new formula could be implemented that expands the ZMD base, keeps the exciting add-ons rather affordable for ZMD residents and hikes the fees on free-riders it could be a fair way to proceed.
Perhaps one thing they could look at regarding the tax versus fee-based issue is give residents within the ZMD a significant price break on the admissions. This potentially could entice other counties to join the ZMD. So for example, ZMD residents could get an attractive Zoofari Pass for $10 while non-residents would pay $25. It may reduce membership revenue depending upon how things are structured, but if a new formula could be implemented that expands the ZMD base, keeps the exciting add-ons rather affordable for ZMD residents and hikes the fees on free-riders it could be a fair way to proceed.
^^& ^^^,
thanks, I couldn't remember how much the lots cost (we're members) but did know that SLAM priced their garage at a comparable if not slightly higher rate to prevent zoo-goers from overtaking the spaces. ... SLAM garage is $15 I believe.
$40 for seniors at San Diego? Wow! But she paid it and I believe that reinforces my belief that we could charge outsiders quite a bit and they'll still come as its high quality..... the challenge for the Zoo is keeping great and new experiences affordable for Saint Louisans; if that requires soaking non-ZMD folks for the marquee attractions while keeping them low for residents that may be the way to go with this.
thanks, I couldn't remember how much the lots cost (we're members) but did know that SLAM priced their garage at a comparable if not slightly higher rate to prevent zoo-goers from overtaking the spaces. ... SLAM garage is $15 I believe.
$40 for seniors at San Diego? Wow! But she paid it and I believe that reinforces my belief that we could charge outsiders quite a bit and they'll still come as its high quality..... the challenge for the Zoo is keeping great and new experiences affordable for Saint Louisans; if that requires soaking non-ZMD folks for the marquee attractions while keeping them low for residents that may be the way to go with this.
Based upon a lot of the zoo visitors I see, a healthy walk would do them good.topher wrote:Roger,
Have you been to the Zoo recently? Parking at both the North and South lots is already $15 a car. Finding free parking on a day with nice weather is already a challenge and usually requires a healthy walk.
We also just visited the Jacksonville Florida zoo. Smaller (maybe 1/3rd to 1/2th the size) than St. Louis but pretty nice and new. Parking was free but I want to say adults were $17/each and kids were $12/each.roger wyoming II wrote:^^& ^^^,
thanks, I couldn't remember how much the lots cost (we're members) but did know that SLAM priced their garage at a comparable if not slightly higher rate to prevent zoo-goers from overtaking the spaces. ... SLAM garage is $15 I believe.
$40 for seniors at San Diego? Wow! But she paid it and I believe that reinforces my belief that we could charge outsiders quite a bit and they'll still come as its high quality..... the challenge for the Zoo is keeping great and new experiences affordable for Saint Louisans; if that requires soaking non-ZMD folks for the marquee attractions while keeping them low for residents that may be the way to go with this.
- 10K
Good call.Based upon a lot of the zoo visitors I see, a healthy walk would do them good.
- 1,320
I've never paid to park in the lot. I can see things differently if there's a double-stroller, toddler and wheelchair involved, though. Still, there are a number of free spots in the park and in Dogtown. And our zoo is free admission.