Zoo-Museum District

debaliviere · PostMar 26, 2009#12009-03-26T14:28+00:00

Proposal could lead to elections on expanding Zoo-Museum District

By Mark Schlinkmann

ST. LOUIS POST-DISPATCH

03/26/2009

A low-key effort under way in the Legislature could set the stage for a vote to expand the St. Louis Zoo-Museum District and its property tax to other area counties.

Last year property owners in St. Louis and St. Louis County kicked in more than $72 million in taxes to help fund the five institutions in the Zoo-Museum District. The proposal would allow other counties to hold elections on joining the district and funding it.

"There is a fairness issue," said the bill's sponsor, Sen. Joan Bray, D-University City. "We're paying it. Everybody (else) comes as our guests."

St. Charles County Executive Steve Ehlmann said his constituents would be unlikely to vote to join the district unless some of the tax money is earmarked for some institution or service in their county.

Link

innov8ion · PostMar 26, 2009#22009-03-26T14:36+00:00

Ehlmann wrote:"Getting it for free, why would they start taxing themselves unless there's some additional benefit to be gained?" asked Ehlmann, a former Republican state senator.

Why pay for the cow when you get the milk for free? Because we may start charging you for the milk.

Alex Ihnen · PostMar 26, 2009#32009-03-26T14:37+00:00

And the let the free-rider debate continue! H3ll, I say, let each municipality build and fund their own zoo. Let's start calling ridiculous "ridiculous." Anyone want to take their kids to the Wentzville Zoo?

DogtownBnR · PostMar 26, 2009#42009-03-26T14:47+00:00

And the let the free-rider debate continue! H3ll, I say, let each municipality build and fund their own zoo. Let's start calling ridiculous "ridiculous." Anyone want to take their kids to the Wentzville Zoo?

Same concept as the funding for public transportation, everyone takes it for granted until it is taken away...ie..county folks that turned down the tax increase assuming no action would be taken...now we are seeing the cutbacks...same with the Zoo...when they come and have to pay..they'll be screaming and yelling all the way to the ATM..

moorlander · PostMar 26, 2009#52009-03-26T14:52+00:00

We can't start charging. One of our greatest selling points is the abundance of top notch free attractions.

DogtownBnR · PostMar 26, 2009#62009-03-26T15:01+00:00

We can't start charging. One of our greatest selling points is the abundance of top notch free attractions.

I totally agree. I think the city generates more revenue in taxes collected from tourists that come here for the free attractions versus what they would collect in admission fees. However, people in the region need to drop the notion that we a seperate. We are a metro area that is centered around the City and its ammenities. I'm not even going to get into a City/County merger rant, but people outside of 270, need to realize the success of the City is crucial to the overall success of the region. The Forest Park attractions are big part of all of our lives. At any expense, they must be funded and maintained to perfection. If that means the outerlying counties have to chip in, so be it.

innov8ion · PostMar 26, 2009#72009-03-26T15:31+00:00

Moorlander wrote:We can't start charging. One of our greatest selling points is the abundance of top notch free attractions.

Oh, it would be free! For tourists not from the St. Louis region and those that already pay the tax. For the citizens from local municipalities that do not contribute to the Zoo, no more free milk for you. If you want free milk, pay for your share of the cow.

brickandmortar · PostMar 26, 2009#82009-03-26T15:35+00:00

Even if they charged $15 the zoo would still be a bargain compared to its counterparts. I paid almost $30 to visit the San Diego Zoo.

If you read the article though the zoo and art museum folks say they have no intention of charging an admittance fee.

debaliviere · PostMar 26, 2009#92009-03-26T15:51+00:00

In some ways, this strikes me a little like the city's decision to charge an earnings tax - the arguments sound similar.

Maybe the fact that our zoo and museums are free is what lures people from other counties, and makes them more likely to spend money while they're visiting.

Perhaps all of the institutions could better target St. Charles County in their fundraising efforts - perhaps specifically addressing the fact that St. Charles County residents do not pay into the Zoo Museum District might make them more likely to make donations.

moorlander · PostMar 26, 2009#102009-03-26T16:26+00:00

innov8ion wrote:
Moorlander wrote:We can't start charging. One of our greatest selling points is the abundance of top notch free attractions.
Oh, it would be free! For tourists not from the St. Louis region and those that already pay the tax. For the citizens from local municipalities that do not contribute to the Zoo, no more free milk for you. If you want free milk, pay for your share of the cow.

That's not at all a practical solution. All that will do is piss people off.

The argument for those St. Chuck etc residents is that while visiting the museums they spend money elsewhere in the city.

threeonefour · PostMar 26, 2009#112009-03-26T16:46+00:00

St. Charles County Executive Steve Ehlmann said his constituents would be unlikely to vote to join the district unless some of the tax money is earmarked for some institution or service in their county.

Well, that's predictably myopic. Too bad we can't trade St. Charles County for some farmland since they paved over most of what they had.

lefty314 · PostMar 26, 2009#122009-03-26T17:46+00:00

brickandmortar wrote:Even if they charged $15 the zoo would still be a bargain compared to its counterparts. I paid almost $30 to visit the San Diego Zoo.

If you read the article though the zoo and art museum folks say they have no intention of charging an admittance fee.

I totally agree, I'd say they could go as low as 8-10 dollars admission fee. Shedd's Aquarium in Chicago cost 17.95 it's not a zoo but close enough for comparison...and they offer discounts to residents of the City of Chicago, we could offer that to those within the tax district as to not piss off the Wentzville residents as much LOL.

gone corporate · PostMar 26, 2009#132009-03-26T19:17+00:00

lefty314 wrote:
brickandmortar wrote:Even if they charged $15 the zoo would still be a bargain compared to its counterparts. I paid almost $30 to visit the San Diego Zoo.

If you read the article though the zoo and art museum folks say they have no intention of charging an admittance fee.
I totally agree, I'd say they could go as low as 8-10 dollars admission fee. Shedd's Aquarium in Chicago cost 17.95 it's not a zoo but close enough for comparison...and they offer discounts to residents of the City of Chicago, we could offer that to those within the tax district as to not piss off the Wentzville residents as much LOL.

I am very much against charging so much for these facilities. While comparable & larger cities may charge for admittance for their art museums, history museums, and zoos, that we do not is something that we all should treasure. Their "free for all" status is rather special, and something which we all should protect.

"Free roads, free museums, free zoo, quality baseball. Saint Louis: The Anti-Chicago."

The pursuit of a tax being levied upon the region for the Forest Park social sites is a smart thing for the organizations to seek. Damn right they go after the outlying taxpayers because they may be inclined to say yes. Who knows if they really think it will pass; before any other such changes in revenue generation, it's their duty to seek out taxing authorization.

And if it fails, they'll just make it $10 to park.

innov8ion · PostMar 26, 2009#142009-03-26T19:32+00:00

Gone Corporate wrote:And if it fails, they'll just make it $10 to park.

I don't know that this is the issue. It's likely that some legislators within the Zoo taxing district desire to lessen their burden. According to what I read, the Zoo doesn't seem involved in this.

the central scrutinizer · PostMar 26, 2009#152009-03-26T20:23+00:00

Gone Corporate wrote:And if it fails, they'll just make it $10 to park.

The zoo already charges to park. I have no idea how much.

threeonefour · PostMar 26, 2009#162009-03-26T20:35+00:00

The Central Scrutinizer wrote:
Gone Corporate wrote:And if it fails, they'll just make it $10 to park.

The zoo already charges to park. I have no idea how much.

If it's not $10 now, it's close enough. I think it's $8, but I'm not sure. That's still very reasonable when you consider what other zoos charge simply for admission, especially given the quality of our zoo.

Back when I was even more of a cheap ba$tard than I am now, I used to park on the street and walk to whichever entrance was closer.

For the last few years, though, my wife and I have purchased zoo memberships so we can take our son as often as possible, and they include several parking passes. That alone is worth the $80 bucks for an annual family membership, not to mention the other benefits.

DogtownBnR · PostMar 26, 2009#172009-03-26T20:35+00:00

Gone Corporate wrote:

And if it fails, they'll just make it $10 to park.

I believe it is now $8. If they raised it to $15 per car (& more for bigger vehicles), they would get a lot more revenue and most would still view it as a bargain, considering most zoos charge that much for one admission. I doubt it would drive too many to park further. Most 'out of towners' would not risk getting lost or the fear of the unknown and park in Dogtown. I think that would make the zoo a ton of money. I don't know if that would be enough to cover shortfalls throughout Forest Park and it's ammenities. A tax increase may be the only way.

dweebe · PostMar 26, 2009#182009-03-26T20:37+00:00

The Central Scrutinizer wrote:
Gone Corporate wrote:And if it fails, they'll just make it $10 to park.

The zoo already charges to park. I have no idea how much.

It's now up to $11 for cars.

It's nice living so close to the zoo. On Saturday we walked over to the zoo and enjoyed the weather. Spent a good 20 minutes just watching the five Amur Tiger cubs play. They're not even a year old and almost as big as their mother. Get over there soon before they have to ship them out.

DogtownBnR · PostMar 26, 2009#192009-03-26T20:46+00:00

It's now up to $11 for cars.

Wow, I was just there last week. Must have been the excitement and anticipation that allowed me to ignore the parking fee...

I did see a first the other day. A gorilla was more than bothered by a few juvenile delinquents harrassing him. He was so angry that he threw dirt, smashed his fists into to a steel door, gave them a real death stare and best of all, jumped up at the crowd and slammed his fists against his chest. It was quite a spectacle. Every child was crying and I even jumped back a few times, even though I was at a safe distance above him.The gorilla repeated this over and over. I was at the overlook near the entrance of the Ape house. Something to see for sure. Didn't appreciate the idiots harrassing the gorilla though.

the central scrutinizer · PostMar 26, 2009#202009-03-26T20:59+00:00

DOGTOWNB&R wrote:
It's now up to $11 for cars.

Wow, I was just there last week. Must have been the excitement and anticipation that allowed me to ignore the parking fee...

I did see a first the other day. A gorilla was more than bothered by a few juvenile delinquents harrassing him. He was so angry that he threw dirt, smashed his fists into to a steel door, gave them a real death stare and best of all, jumped up at the crowd and slammed his fists against his chest. It was quite a spectacle. Every child was crying and I even jumped back a few times, even though I was at a safe distance above him.The gorilla repeated this over and over. I was at the overlook near the entrance of the Ape house. Something to see for sure. Didn't appreciate the idiots harrassing the gorilla though.

How were they harassing him? What did the zoo personel have to say about it?

moorlander · PostMar 26, 2009#212009-03-26T22:14+00:00

dweebe wrote:
The Central Scrutinizer wrote:
Gone Corporate wrote:And if it fails, they'll just make it $10 to park.

The zoo already charges to park. I have no idea how much.

It's now up to $11 for cars.

It's nice living so close to the zoo. On Saturday we walked over to the zoo and enjoyed the weather. Spent a good 20 minutes just watching the five Amur Tiger cubs play. They're not even a year old and almost as big as their mother. Get over there soon before they have to ship them out.

The gf and I stop by the zoo quite often in the warm months. With free entry, we can pop in and catch one exhibit and leave. I LOVE THAT.

DogtownBnR · PostMar 27, 2009#222009-03-27T00:57+00:00

How were they harassing him? What did the zoo personel have to say about it?

They were making fake gorilla noises at the gorilla. They were very loud. Someone called the harrassment line posted on a sign, but I left before they arrived, if they did. It was only verbal harrassment, but it was making the animal very angry.

m2tbone · PostMar 27, 2009#232009-03-27T01:48+00:00

Moorlander wrote:With free entry, we can pop in and catch one exhibit and leave. I LOVE THAT.

Yeah and when it's hot out, I can run into the zoo and cool off in the Penguin and Puffin Coast exhibit while I'm running the loop around the park. I could never do that if it wasn't free.

tbspqr · PostMar 27, 2009#242009-03-27T03:06+00:00

I like the doughnut method of admission charging – it’s free to people who live in the taxable area (hole part of the doughnut) and people who come from over 100 miles... as they are more likely to stay in a hotel or whatever. But to people utilizing it on a day trip and not paying taxes - they have to fork over the bucks. That way the tax targets the intended target, but doesn’t diminish the attraction of having a free zoo, science center, and art museum as well as a nice Botanical Garden.

:: I find the Mo History Museum worthless - we have what - 3 or 4 museums dedicated to the history of the region (including one in the arch and one in the old court house) - is there any need for this one also? Awesome looking building that should be utilized for something a little more awesome. ::

tb1000 · PostMar 27, 2009#252009-03-27T03:09+00:00

I agree with the above post. The city residents shouldn't carry the burden of supporting the zoo through their taxes without residents of surrounding counties not paying a dime.